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A teacher at my school received a ham as gift from one of her students (I think it was a roast or something big). Not wanting to offend the student and tell her that she wouldn't/couldn't eat it because it was portk, she took the ham and then regifted to her downstairs neighbor who is not a believer. Her reasons were that of course she didn't want to offend her student who had thought of her (and working within this culture I understand how the student wouldn't see the reason but the rejection) but also it was food and she didn't want to throw it away either. That is why she gave it to her neighbor. I know as Adventists that we would never serve pork to anyone but would you have given the the roast to a non-believer or would you have thrown it away?

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I would have given it to the garbage can ... the student would not needed to have known what happened to the gift after it
was accepted. It's the same principle as eating out on the Sabbath, in my opinion. We sanction someone else's "Sabbath breakage" by waiting on us, cooking for us. Actually, it's a bit different, but you know what I mean. I think the word is hypocrite. If something is not good enough for me, why would it be good enough for someone else? I think it hurts
our ultimate witness and is not strenghtening to the other person - whether they know it @ the time or not. Thank you.
Glenn, you should post at the end.

You can give unclean things to whoever asks for them. The Bible says you have to support your family, or you have denied the faith and you are worse than an infidel, (1 Tim. 5:8). So in order to do that, I have to give unclean things to people. I cook bacon, and sausage and serve it up with a smile to whoever wants to buy it. It's my job. It's the only job I can get right now. We also recall the prodigal son feeding hogs for a living, (Luke 15:15).

Why would you want to add more restrictions than the Bible gives?

Prov. 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Yet people keep wanting to add their own traditions and not just follow the Bible.

Duet. 14:21 Ye shall not eat [of] any thing that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that [is] in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien: for thou [art] an holy people unto the LORD thy God.

Do you have any verse that says you can't give unclean things to unbelievers? If you don't have a verse, than you don't have any thing to say.
"God had important work for the promised child of Manoah to do, and it was to secure for him the qualifications necessary for this work, that the habits of both the mother and the child were to be so carefully regulated. "Neither let her drink wine nor strong drink," was the angel's instruction for the wife of Manoah, "nor eat any unclean thing; all that I commanded her let her observe." The child will be affected for good or evil by the habits of the mother. She must herself be controlled by principle, and must practice temperance and self-denial, if she would seek the welfare of her child". Ellen White in CD 218

The unborn child would not be allowed to have anything unclean through it's mother. The child could not be considered a believer before it was born.
Who in their right mind would give unclean things to their children?
Lev. 11:26 KJV
The carcases of every beast which divideth the hoof, and is not clovenfooted, nor cheweth the cud, are unclean unto you: every one that toucheth them shall be unclean.

Rom. 12:2 KJV
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

I Corinth. 10:31 KJV
Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God

II Corinth 7:1 KJV
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

I Peter 2:9,10 KJV
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

We are called to spread the gospel, but not giving toxic harmful products to people. One can't claim e.g not to drink alcohol and then go ahead and harm the very people he is supposed to save by giving them that which was forbidden to be eaten.
So we can't sell unclean foods, alcoholic beverages, drugs to people, because It doesn't glorify God, and We are not even supposed to touch those products.

An Adventist (Awaiting the soon return of Christ) wouldn't take matters in his own hands and go ahead and continue to sell unclean foods or alcoholic beverages to the very people he/she is supposed to warn of the impending destruction.
We have to live by example, and in this regard we are not supposed to take or engage in selling those products.

We should stop taking matters in our own hands, and believe God knew us before we were born. When we turn from our wicked ways, and seek him, He'll hear and heal our land. II Chron. 7:14. The best advice is to quit any job which involves sell of unclean products, the Lord will surely provide, the silver and the gold belongs to him Haggai 2:8.

I sounded critical, but I conclude by saying the church manual is there to guide the church, and whatever is written there is for the good of the church and to make sure highest spiritual standards are maintained. All SDA members vow not to sell, or even take unclean and alcoholic beverages before baptism.

Bro. Rush, the truth is the truth!


The verses you quoted are all about consuming these things, not giving them to others.

Prov. 31:4 [It is] not for kings, O Lemuel, [it is] not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:
31:5 Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.

I am a prince, in a certain respect, so I have responsibility, so I follow this. I don't drink. But...

Prov. 31:6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
31:7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.

It looks like alcohol has a purpose after all. It's for those who are perishing. It's so the hard hearted people of this world can get drunk and forget everything. And why not? They have no responsibility. They are not princes. This life is all they have. And they are so pitiful. They are better drunk. Now if the Devil tries to stir them up to persecute God's elect, they won't want to bother. They are having a good time.

1 Cor. 15:32 ...let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.
Rush, It's obvious that you can't engage in something which you well know is injuring their health, and they are perishing.

I'm afraid but quoting verses to defend your position isn't the way to go. It Is Written we are to be separate and you can't just disregard the way the church functions with guidelines set in the church manual because you know they speak against your deeds.
God calls us to obey, and obedience not shutting out counsel. Like i said before, the Lord knows you, the silver and gold belongs to Him, If He feds the birds and dresses the lilies how much more is He able to dress and feed you.

Step out in faith, and stop selling those injurious articles and you'll see how the Lord will manifest His good works towards you.

I stand by my word, the Lord is blesses immeasurably more than you can ask, think or imagine.


To answer your question: I believe the teacher did the right thing by accepting the gift, then re-gifting it to another family in need. The primary witnessing in this situation is to show the love of Christ by serving others.

Far to often, we as Adventist believe that we have a monopoly on service towards others. We monopolize on the "truth", before we serve. We place educating the person before meeting the immediate need. We must remember, that a 1-3min witness, goes much further in imitating the character of Christ than trying to get into a 1 hour Bible study, research, and persuasive conversation, to try to convert the person about diet.

An example: Lets say a homeless person comes up to you on the street and asks for food. Smartly, because you want to caution from giving them money for alcohol/drugs/etc, you take them to a fast food/take-out place. They order a Quarter Pounder Hamburger, or in a Chinese place, they order sweet/sour pork with pork fried rice. What do you do? Do you refuse to pay for it because YOU don't eat pork? Do you insult and embarrass the person because of YOUR convictions? Do you pull him aside and go into a full-blown Bible study of Lev. 11 and condemn him for his choice of food?

Anyone that would answer Yes to any of these questions should rethink their christian journey! You must understand that serving others, in the short time you have in contact with them, does not entail conversion, sanctification, and lifestyle change from an immediate standpoint.

In the teachers case: I would accept the gift. Pass it on to someone else. At a later time, I would have politely got a few minutes with the student and thanked them for their gift, but also politely explained to them that, "due to my religious beliefs I was not able to eat/enjoy the Ham you so graciously gave me for a gift". I did, however, give it to a needy family and donated it in your name. At that point I would ask if they would like to know more about my religious diet, and other "truths" (i would not use that word), then bring them around to Jesus.
Good point Smith, and well said.

I remember I was in jail, and I kept giving away my pork. And they feed you a lot of pork in jail because it's cheap. I would give away stuff that was cooked in the tiny little TV dinner, (which is barely enough to keep a man alive), together with pork, where the fumes of the pork would contaminate all the other stuff. Because I know it's all contaminated and unclean. I fasted often.

But I have worked with Literature Evangelists who like to eat at restaurants, where the clean and the unclean often mix together. But I would bring my own food, and be the oddball. I wouldn't eat that stuff, because I know how things work there.

At Sonic, we cook bacon on that grill all day long. The burgers are often cooked in bacon grease. When someone orders a chicken sandwich, the bacon is moved aside, leaving a pool of grease, and the chicken is cooked in that grease.

The french fries are cooked in the same grease the pork fritters are fried in. And I know a lot of Adventists who go to these places, and order french fries, or chicken sandwiches.

So the same people who will not give away pork, are themselves eating pork unwittingly.

The irony never ends, does it?
Well said.

I think the issue that must always be addressed is that we "Adventists" live in this world. There is no 100% fail safe that protects you from contaminants. You must do your best to stay away from places and things that might be questionable to your diet, in as far as Adventist beliefs are concerned. The rest is left up to diligent prayer and caution.

If, to the extreme, you feel you can't take the chance at all, then one must live in a bubble. We do not know how much of the groceries we buy, the food we eat at restaurants, the potlucks we part take in, have been contaminated with pork, caffeine, sea food, meat, etc. Where one may have the 100% privilege to prepare ALL their food with no worries (God be praised), for the rest of us -- based on circumstances-- we do our best.
My concern is about eating chicken fried in bacon grease. I don't see that as trying to live in a bubble. That's eating pork.
Don't eat chicken. :D


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