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This morning during my devotionals, I was suddenly struck with the thought that since our wonderful God has returned to me TWO sons, One I was forced to give up at birth some 40 yrs ago, and one I was a legal custodial mother to about 15 yrs ago, (then CPS, over-rode the Custody papers, and put him back with his very alcoholic birth father, then he was put in foster homes till 18 yrs of age. I am not his birth mother she disappeared years ago). Now suddenly we're back together by the grace of God. Plus I have the children I raised myself, struggling with their lives.

They were raised Adventist, but fell away over the years.  WHAT DO I HAVE TO OFFER THEM??? I'm praying morning, noon and evening for them, and all our churches in the USA.

It seems churches in other countries are showing much more of God's spirit than here. How do I take my children who are now young adults, (one raised SDA and discouraged), to church, when the church, our home church as well,  is in a constant state of confusion, our Pastor is ONLY a pastor he "ministers" to no one, neither do the elders, etc. Our church is a mess of power plays.

There are MORE board members than regular congregation, and they have turned down many gifts given to the church, due to stubborn headstrong board members.

we never know if and when we'll have a service which is filled with the spirit of God, or someone we don't know who wants to be a clown.

We've been called "conservative" I guess as opposed to "progressive", and yet the problems are so many people who join, loving the truths of God, and are even baptized often leave after a few months. saying they do not get the fellowship, and Christian joy they were looking for. Many have joined other denominations where there is often much more active participation.  

GOD HELP US, AS A JESUS'S REMNANT CHURCH.  For miles around, we've attended other SDA churches only to find them outwardly WORSE than what we have. Members dressed like their going to a Broadway show,  a lot of loud clamours  noise, laughing and talking in the sanctuary's, joking, sometimes so loud in the sanctuary you can't even talk to your neighbor. and Pastors who make jokes, and comedy lines,    GOD HELP US.   any one?

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The church is under constant attack, charismatic attack by the devil's camp; hence the display of fruits you have outlined.  Am glad though, that the Lord we serve, even as we are called 'conservative' is the winner in this war and with our eyes on Him-He will make a way; where there seems to be none---a way to Him and not to the devil's wilderness. God bless you and your family.

What do we have to offer?  We have the GOOD NEWS of our personal Savior who will take us to His heart and give us the gift of eternal life with Him.  Simply amazing.  We also happen to have the truth.

The only relationship that matters is the one each person has with Jesus.  We cannot allow ourselves to look to anyone but Jesus for our life source.  Be the reflection of Christ you wish others to see.  Don't be bogged down by others reflecting Christ imperfectly.  Everyone does that.  Be the Christian you want others to be.  Praying to shake out the chaff or tares is not our task (and we are told not to do that).  Praying to reflect Jesus better IS our task.

Every imperfection you see in the church is the imperfection of a sinner that Christ died for.  Work tirelessly to improve your church.  But always remember that no one owes you a perfect worship experience with other worshipers who are perfect.  That does not exist in this sinful world.  YOU must be the one to reveal Christ to seekers.  You can be the center of holy in your church.  You will attract souls to Christ in an imperfect world and an imperfect church.

With God's power you can do it!

Well the Bible tells us we will bow..I think only catholics fall flat on their faces. I think more and more people expect a church to be just like having friends over..I mean the church services. They forget that it is Gods house and we are to at least put in some effort in our dress, speech, worship and behaviour during that time...the Bible tells us about all these things.

He is not some buddy off the street that we are turning up to have a beer with..He is the Most High God. If people cannot get all washed up in preperation to worship their King..and put on their best clothes, whether they be jeans because it is all they have or whatever...then there is something wrong.

People do that to visit the queen..the president etc etc..but they want the church different?

Noone is to quiver in fear of God....we are to hold Him in the highest esteem and give Him the highest respect and reverence.

Joyce, Soul Shaker is talking about having fellowship here on earth with Jesus. What is fellowship? It is not always in church. Jesus who came to live as a man with us, he talked with us, ate what was severed as a guest in a home, laughed with us, went to parties with us, to be among us. He went to weddings, he turned water into wine or grape juice if that is what you prefer, he turned it to make it more festive, a wedding is a celebration and Jesus was a part of that. He wanted to celebrate with us…fellowship. Jesus hasn’t changed… it is us who has changed. Yes God is our awesome heavenly father but you make it sound like we are to be robots around him. He gave us free will and choices. We are to learn about him but he also wants to learn about us, who we are, our likes and dislikes, our desires, our hearts. A relationship is not one sided. Jesus is our lord but he is also our friend. God is with us no matter what we are doing or where we are, he is with us. If we are at a game he is with us, at BBQ he is with us, he is with us all the time. There will be things of this world in heaven, Jesus’s scars. God has hugged me when I needed it, I felt his arms around me, it was amazing, and he loves us physically as well, of course he would hug us, I don’t get why you would think Jesus wouldn’t hug us. Jesus is all about love, he loves us so much his teachings are about his love not fear.

I have a strong feeling your NOT a real soul shaker, but a real strong agent on the opposite side.

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God bless!

Joyce, I don't remember anyone saying having a beer with Jesus, was that said?

Soul Shaker you are partly right, Jesus is our friend and the church at times can be too conservative. I don't think i'd ask Jesus to a hockey game even though I like hockey sometimes  myself. But I'd ask Jesus to dinner and jesus is always there no matter what anyway.   Jesus is our friend, but he's also our savior, our creator , our father , and king. I saw a picture of a man kissing Prince William's feet. If a man can kiss another mans feet or bow to him as King,  surely we can bow and humble ourselves to Jesus , even though Jesus treats us as family.

 If someone walks off the street in rags and smelling of alcohol, they deserve to be in church as much as anyone. Jesus accepts us as we are  when we come to him. However, we must change and become more Christ-like.  So at some point it is perfectly find to suggest  privately to someone better clothing than rags if it is done with love and understanding and not to ridicule. It's fine for a church to be filled with music, happiness, shouting and praise , the church needs it's own holy sound, but a church should not be filled with rap and other worldly music,dancing, and chaos. We have to have some order and reference during church. It's a balance. The church should not be noise-less , but it can't be a free for all or "happening" either.

And Thank You Joyce...

I agree he is definitely not our "football  buddy" and what you wrote is absolutely true and beautiful. Jesus is very modest, but he expects our humble worship and reverence. We as human beings show reverence for the faintest things, surely Jesus deserves some reverence.

Hi Real Soul Shaker

I hear you, but is not reverence a part of true worship?

Does God give any instructions on how to worship Him?

What does the Bible say?

Some of those things may have their own place, in time, but are we now in the frame of mind, that we will be in when in heaven?  As men, we are naturally rude and irreverent, and must learn what reverence is.

One thing is for certain, there is no real worship without reverence.

God is not just "friend", but the greatest king in the universe, and even in this irreverent age we would show reverence (great respect at least), to an earthly king.

We are cautioned in the Bible to be careful how we approach the Lord, and though in all the items you have stated, your heart may be right, others may while doing the same, just be enjoying as in a party, with little to no thought of God.  We do not want to teach irreverence.

Perhaps then, some of those items are best reserved for the private worship?

We need to err on the side of reverence in all.


Take Care



We should remember who "me" is: Jer. 17:9 KJV.

Remember also the story in Lev. 10 KJV.

Take Care


You are welcome to visit my church (Riverside Chapel SDA) ANYTIME you are in Nashville!

yea what about the seventh day adventist church


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