"Permalink Reply by Elijah on December 22, 2017 at 6:44pm
I thought you would have understood that James. I am not sure how baptism is done in your Church but as SDA we do it exactly like Christ told us to. And Pastor says "I baptise you in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit." I am yet to see a baptised person coming out of the watery grave and speak in tounges as you suggest we need to do. I seem to remember you telling us that you needed to take a special course in speaking in tounges anyway. Well the SDA do not run such a course as the Bible does not tell us that you need special training in speaking in tounges. As far as I understand speaking in tounges was the least of the manifestations of the Holy Spirit. You here seem to suggest it is the most important. As Raymond seems to suggest Gifts of the flesh is also manifested in your church like Sodomy, that is a thing God has condemned outright in the Bible. So please do not tell us how superior you are to us."
IN CASE YOU MISSED IT; HERE IS SODOMY INFERENCE FROM THE LAST TWO SENTANCES ABOVE:
"As Raymond seems to suggest Gifts of the flesh is also manifested in your church like Sodomy, that is a thing God has condemned outright in the Bible. So please do not tell us how superior you are to us.
YOU AGAIN CLAIM MENTAL ILLNESS, DENY BRINGING SODOMY INFERENCE INTO THE DEBATE;
"I cannot recall saying that, but then again a person who is mentally ill come up with a lot of lies."
YOU ADD INSULT TO INJURY. IF YOU DID THIS IN AMERICA IN EARLY 19TH CENTURY, YOU WOULD BE CHALLENGED TO A DUEL TO THE DEATH WHEN HONOR WAS IMPORTANT. YOU HAVE NO HONOR NOR INTEGRITY.
MULTIPLE TIMES YOU INSULT ME. YOU SHOW YOURSELF TO BE A MOST VILE CREATURE."
THE SODOMY ACCUSATION WAS DIRECTED DIRECTLY TO ME AS IT STATED AT THE TOP:
"I THOUGHT YOU WOULD HAVE UNDERSTOOD THAT JAMES"...YOU HERE SEEM TO SUGGEST(NOTE: REFERENCE TO TONGUES) IT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT. AS RAYMOND SEEMS TO SUGGEST GIFTS OF THE FLESH IS ALSO MANIFESTED IN YOUR CHURCH LIKE SODOMY, THAT IS A THING GOD HAS CONDEMNED OUTRIGHT IN THE BIBLE. SO PLEASE DO NOT TELL US HOW SUPERIOR YOU ARE TO US."
NOW JOHNB DEFENDS THE SODOMY ACCUSATION BY ATTACKING ME AGAIN TODAY:
Ok, as I see it this is the progression:
22nd December 2017 Raymond refers to, "some denominations which are pro sodomy and or abortion".
On the same day Elijah says, "As Raymond seems to suggest Gifts of the flesh is also manifested in your church like Sodomy, that is a thing God has condemned outright in the Bible."
Five months later James says, "I have been accused of even sodomy!"
When challenged on this, the same day, James changed his mind and stated that Elijah had suggested that he belongs to a church that practices sodomy and as he had attended an SDA Church (not as a member) James then tried to infer that Elijah was saying that the SDA Church practices sodomy.
I believe that is the root of the problem. James refuses to point posts out to me as he believes that it is my "work" to find what he is referring to, so any lack is down to non-cooperation rather than a failing on my part.
1. Raymond mentions churches being pro-sodomy
2. Elijah spins it to suggest James is a member of a church that practices sodomy
3. James digs it up months later and spins it further as an allegation that he commits sodomy.
4. James then resiles from that position and says it was an inference not an allegation.
5. Everybody gets upset about it all over again.
James and Elijah seem to be the cause of the problem, Elijah for misrepresenting what Raymond said and James for blowing it all out of proportion by exaggerating it to claim an actual allegation of sodomy and digging up a grievance from 5 months ago.
All posters should be clear and concise in their writing and not exaggerate what others say.
This appears to be a problem with both Elijah and James and I will encourage you both to follow the rules and speak the truth in love.
Hopefully we have some kind of "truce" in effect at the moment so I suggest learning and moving on."
END OF JOHNB DEFENSE OF ACCUSATION OF SODOMY.
I DID NOT EXAGGERATE WHAT ELIJAH SAID;
"GIFTS OF THE FLESH IS ALSO MANIFESTED IN YOUR CHURCH LIKE SODOMY, THAT IS A THING GOD HAS CONDEMNED OUTRIGHT IN THE BIBLE. SO PLEASE DO NOT TELL US HOW SUPERIOR YOU ARE TO US."
JOHNB FURTHER SUBTLELY MISREPRESENTS THE TRUTH AND FACTS BY STATING AS ABOVE TODAY:
When challenged on this, the same day, James changed his mind and stated that Elijah had suggested that he belongs to a church that practices sodomy and as he had attended an SDA Church (not as a member) James then tried to infer that Elijah was saying that the SDA Church practices sodomy."
NO! I POINTED OUT HOW IRONIC IT IS THAT ELIJAH'S EVIL SODOMY ACCUSATION AGAINST ME AND "MY CHRUCH" WAS MADE AGAINST THE LAST CHURCH I HAD ATTENDED 3 YEARS AGO, AND SDA CHURCH!
I DID NOT EXAGGERATE OR DEFEND THESE EVIL ACCUSATIONS. IT WAS ELIJAH PUTTING HIS FOOT IN HIS OWN MOUTH, WHICH JOHNB THEN ATTACKS ME FOR.
IT WAS NOT AN INFERENCE, IT WAS A DIRECT ACCUSATION. THE INFERENCE WAS ABOUT THAT I WAS A SATANIST AS ELIJAH ACCUSED ME OF BEING IN LEAGUE WITH THE DEVIL BY STATING THAT SATAN STARTED THE FIRES (HERE IN COBB, CA) AND THAT SATAN COULD HAVE PUT OUT THE FIRES.
WHY DOES ELIJAH CONSTANTLY MAKE UP LIES AND ACCUSATIONS ABOUT ME WITHOUT FOUNDATION, THEN YOU JOHNB DEFEND HIM. AS STATED IN MY SPIRITUAL INDICTMENT; YOU THREE DEFENDANTS; JOHNB, JASON AND ELIJAH WORK TOGETHER AND DEFEND EACH OTHER ETC.
HOW CAN THERE BE A TRUCE WHEN JASON AND NOW YOU ARE STILL AT IT, MISREPRESENTING WHAT I SAY OR DO OR MAKE UP EVIL AND DEFEND IT?
EVERYTIME YOU ATTACK ME I WILL POST HERE A NEW FORUM SO THE PUBLIC AND OTHER SDA CAN SEE THE EVIL AND SINISTER METHODS USED HERE THAT ARE DEMONIC.
Jason wrote: "so you are saying I said James is mentally ill or as you say it has a mental illness? is this a fact? open your eyes brother Reasoning ..."
My eyes are open, you started a post
Jason posted: "The hallmarks of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) are grandiosity, a lack of empathy for other people, and a need for admiration. People with this condition are frequently described as arrogant, self-centered, manipulative, and demanding.They may also concentrate on grandiose fantasies (e.g. their own success, beauty, brilliance) and may be convinced that they deserve special treatment. These characteristics typically begin in early adulthood and must be consistently evident in multiple contexts, such as at work and in relationships.
People with narcissistic personality disorder believe they are superior or special, and often try to associate with other people they believe are unique or gifted in some way. This association enhances their self-esteem, which is typically quite fragile underneath the surface. Individuals with NPD seek excessive admiration and attention in order to know that others think highly of them. Individuals with narcissistic personality disorder have difficulty tolerating criticism or defeat, and may be left feeling humiliated or empty when they experience an "injury" in the form of criticism or rejection."
Is NPD a mental illness? Yes, it is... Now Watch the connection by you Jason.
Jason wrote: "James would not go away just like that unless he is removed. I wish members here could understand what's going on here. Read between the lines of what he writes: the repetitions; the grandiosity; exaggerated sense of his own abilities and achievements; the constant need for attention, affirmation, and praise; the sense of entitlement and expectation of special treatment (even claiming that demons [or satanists] don't tread him the way he is treated here; etc . I could list more manifestations ... "
What do you want "members here [to] understand what's going on here "?
It's no coincidence that the lines you want us to read between and the list you put forward is the exact meaning of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, which again is a mental illness. You are shining a light that James is/perhaps mentally ill. 'Check it out y'all.... Look at him, he showing the symptoms.... Oh boy, I wish the members could understand what's going on...'
What do you want us to understand Jason?? In a nutshell, perhaps James has got NPD! A mental illness. Yes, this is factual, you didn't say it outright, it's done subliminally. It's the only conclusion. Unless you can explain and prove otherwise.
Brother JohnB, the defacto moderator of AO in my mind.. Thank you for your time & answer.. If you don't want to get involved to much I'll understand, but what do you conclude Jason wants us to understand when he list the symptoms of NPD in regards to James?
am I off base in concluding that brother Jason wants us to believe perhaps James has a mental illness? If you think I'm correct in concluding that, do you believe Jason is doing it in an appropriate, sensitive way? Thank you.
Reasoning asked, "what do you conclude Jason wants us to understand when he list the symptoms of NPD in regards to James?
am I off base in concluding that brother Jason wants us to believe perhaps James has a mental illness? If you think I'm correct in concluding that, do you believe Jason is doing it in an appropriate, sensitive way? Thank you."
Hi Reasoning, I've donned my helmet and bullet-proof vest...
I didn't participate in that thread until the very end when I saw James reviving the thread by making an abusive response to Elijah's post of some months earlier, even then I hadn't read the OP as it didn't look like an interesting thread. So that's my prior "interest" in that thread.
As to the thread itself:
I question the motivation of the thread. Normally threads are started in order to be able to discuss a topic. As this was posted in the "Christian Living & Health" it is in a relevant section but it seems unclear as to why it was posted initially.
JasonM started the thread on 15th May 2017 at 4.19pm. He made the first reply to his post at 4.20pm which is similar in content to the opening post.
At 4.23pm he makes a third post to the thread which simply says "clear case" with no explanation as to the reference.
4.29pm, further post from Jason suggesting treatment.
5.37pm sees Elijah's first reply which includes the sentence, "The diagnosis does clearly fit on that person."
At 8.25pm Lindy asked, "Who are you talking about? Are either of you a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist?"
Elijah responds on 16th May 12.27am, "Are you Lindy? I did not know you had to be qualified to talk about something?"
At 5.15am Jason responds with a post listing NPD symptoms and closes with the following: "Read the comments here and see someone who, when someone agrees with him, says wonderful things about them,, but when someone disagrees with his beliefs (which are almost always false) cast out spells and curses them"
On 17th May at 12.02pm James makes his first reply in the thread. He opens by saying, "The above could be applied to you, Elijah, as well as to other SDA's who think as you do that you have a corner on the market for God. You speak as though you are an expert, you have no experience of speaking in tongues whatsoever. To whom are you and Jason disgnosing as NPD?
Why are you referring to someone here un-named? I called you both certain individuals, thoigh it's obvious who I am referring to, and that you are referring to me."
James receives no reply to his post.
On 18th May Rabbittroup also complained that he found the thread distasteful and stated in regard to his experience, "Even the ones that would act out uncontrollable and cause me difficulties I would never intentionally openly discus their conditions for the purpose of singling them out"
18th May James responded to Rabbittroup by saying, "Thank you Rabbittroup. It is very evil and hurtful.
Clearly, three days into the thread, James has identified himself as being the subject of discussion.
20th May 2017, Bart also expressed dislike of the thread states that the thread is not about James but about someone else however he (quite rightly) declines when pressed to name the person.
At this point the thread dies for around three months until briefly revived on p.1 by Heisenberg.
Curiously James also revives the thread at various times over the following months. He is the last one to revive the thread and no more has been posted since I queried his reason for reviving the thread. I mention this as it makes me wonder why, if one thought oneself to be the subject of a thread about mental disorder, would you return every several months to reactivate the thread. Wouldn't the better course of action be to allow it remain inactive?
However, it seems clear that JasonM had a specific person in mind and Elijah also knew who was being referred to.
James clearly identified himself as being the subject of the post and JasonM, the OP, did nothing to allay James' fears or assure him that he was wrong.
On reading the post listing the symptoms of NPD it is, IMHO, clear that James is being referred to. No-one else fits the description.
In my opinion a person of average understanding who has been reading this site would immediately identify this thread as being in relation to James French both from the list of symptoms and from Jason's remark on 16th May 2017.
Of course, the easiest solution would be if JasonM clarified the point of the thread.
(Now I'm ducking back into my foxhole. Blessings)
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Your stating I don't have a right to defend myself, the gospel, my ministry and my character? But you and your co-defendants have a right to attack and you constantly defend and downplay their and your roles, while racking me through the coals?
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James wrote: "Your stating I don't have a right to defend myself, the gospel, my ministry and my character? But you and your co-defendants have a right to attack and you constantly defend and downplay their and your roles, while racking me through the coals? "
Again, for the record, brother JohnB hasn't attacked you... Now there are some post From other that aren't Christ-like, no SDA has an excuse to post in that way. Again, I apologize for that brother James, however you can't tell me the best response is one not lead by the fruits of the Spirit.
Now, do you acknowledge your responses to "defend" yourself has been un Christ -like? Or do you think it's ok to respond in a un Christ-like way because someone has come at you in that way?
Reasoning: I appreciate that you are trying to bring peace and principle back.
JohnB posted biased posts that misrepresented the facts minimizing the outrageous posts by Elijah regarding sodomy accusation. This was after I thought perhaps the bias and animosity etc. would cease.
I therefore posted as much of the Satanic accusations in one long post as these also have been down played by JasonM, Elijah and JohnB since it started. JohnB is not innocent in these matters by ignoring the wrong doing of others while bringing up that I should not even be here etc.. I have explained also the problem with the contradictory statements on joining here which refutes by the statements the premise of only SDA should join, and the attacks saying I am a liar and entered deceptively, The statements have not been reproduced by JohnB about how to treat unbelievers who may be lost for eternity and those that disagree. They would also show how there is more than JohnB’s interpretation possible as written.
JohnB has continually stated that on entry the principles of the SDA must be supported etc. and not questioned at all. The statements about those that disagree and unbelievers implies otherwise. I believe the scriptures and the Holy Spirit are controlling, as they agree and con.firm each other. I am an unbeliever in doctrine and practice that violates the 7 church epistles that are directly written to the body of Christ by Paul who received revelation hidden since the foundation of the world.
I have also pointed out that there are many people here SDA who disagree with the SDA doctrines in part such as the Trinity. JohnB is not calling for them liars or with dishonesty for not upholding the SDA principles or calling for them to leave the site as Elijah, Jason and JohnB insist. I have friends here, perhaps that bothers the defendants.
My beliefs and statements and scriptures and opinions etc. even if believed to be wrong does not excuse the character assassinations and totally unfounded totally evil accusations, hatred and hostility. JohnB and the other defendants do not properly refute my scriptures, Greek word studies but attack viciously.
There has also been attacks and blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and its holy genuine manifestations and testimonies of such. The immediate unjustified accusations of Satanic manifestations by those that have not witnessed them, have no experience and accurate knowledgeof such, and no discerning of spirits revelation are unqualified as experts. This is exasperated by the lack of operation of the manifestations of Holy Spirit in general Christianity as well as SDA.
The testimonies of what God did gives glory to God, brings others to Christ or closer and builds faith.
The defendants say I am egotistical thereby. No, demonstration of the power of God and about it by testimonies are not egotistical nor intended to be.
Prophets and those fully initiated in knowledge and experience in spiritual matters which includes the 9 manifestations given to every man are to judge spiritual matters, not those who are neophytes and unlearned in the power of God snd walking by the spirit.
I for the most part have been defensive and provide constant scriptures and have prayed for the attackers and haters and attempted by reason to have them address my research and not continue with accusations of the foulest kind. The mental illness accusation was objected to and I posted how painful it was as it opened wounds of false accusations of mental illness against me by two family members who never did one day of caregiving while I was taking care of my mother who had dementia 24 hours a day most of the time and had to defend in court against an involuntary psychiatric evaluation which I defeated against those attempting to take my mothers house by putting her in a home before necessary and deprive me of my inheritance and my sanity. The mental health accusations continue by Jason, Elijah and JohnB and joined by Bart.
Statements about not being clear minded, irrational etc.
The Satanic, mental illness, and sodomy accusations are the most hurtful.I have stated that I am not perfect, no one cannot be without upset or anger being bombarded with these horrible things.
If these posters JohnB, Elijah, Jason, Raymond and Bart just not offend me and better yet just not address or post to me or about me this would solve the problem of future accusations. Everyone else here has been kind. Mr. Mr. Umraw posted vile things in the past and called me a sorry excuse for a human being. Mutinta apologized even though he still disagreed with me which I accepted. Those posters no longer address me and are not a problem.
My criticism of general Christianity and some SDA doctrines are brought in hopes of reform in both based on scriptures and understanding and experience of the things brought. The lack of Book of Acts type move of the Word and the working of and guidance by walking by the spirit is a needed reform. Criticism, even constructive does get some people mad.
To constantly be accused of working with the Devil is most painful, when my life literally has been in danger for the Gospels sake many times including being run over by a car driven by a possessed woman as I walked home from doing ministry work at a college. I was not injured, God reminded me of survival book to jump on the hood at the exact right moment. I was hanging on the wiper area and the woman would not stop so I rolled off her car.
I made some corrections and additions that system would not save as I by mistake forgot to save all just in case. I ran out of time to save. Sorry for few typos etc.
No worries my brother... I will address what you wrote, but I didn't see a answer to my question.... I asked, do you acknowledge your responses to "defend" yourself has been un Christ -like?
Or do you think it's ok to respond in a un Christ-like way because someone has come at you in that way?
There have been some, yes I already admitted that, but predominantly I seek peace and have constantly requested scriptures, Reason, logic, without demonic attacks.
I have called them out with scriptures such as evil surmissings, backbiting and hate and not loving the brethren. I have emphasized the one body of Christ and walking by the spirit. I never accused anyone of not being saved, but of bad spiritual influences and ignorance and grieving and quenching the spirit which is predominant in Christianity. I never accused anyone of sodomy, mental illness, being a child of the Devil, as far as I remember.
With JohnB I have questioned why and how a believer would use Satanic/New World Order/Luciferian universal symbol as ID picture after being informed many times? It is his right as I have stated, but It can carry sigil magic automatically regardless of intent because it is the replica exactly in design, shape and proportion of the Luciferian symbol. The Luciferians use the symbol using their hand over their one eye etc. mimicking the symbol in photographs. These communicate to other Luciferians and mock God intentionally. The dark side use symbolism, numerology and lies constantly. So I had some reason to question. There has been animosity between JohnB and I. I believe He has been biased and accusatory.
This is not for purpose of attacking but explaining concern and reason now for your understanding.
I have taught the truth that every believer has Christ in them according to scripture. I do not have anything more spiritually than any other believer as far as holy spirit is concerned. So I do not think I am special or gifted except the gift of Holy Spirit, which everyone has that believes.
I do not now nor have I ever had any history of mental illness, never been committed or even been treated by mental health practitioners.
The Communists, CIA etc. have used false accusations of mental illness to lock up Christians, forced treatment and drugs etc. I already several times on this site have told my my ordeal by family members falsely accusing me in court proceedings of mental illness associated with my mother’s estate/conservatorship. I won the attempted §5150 California Welfare and Institutions code involuntary psychiatric evaluation action in court. There was and is no evidence of mental illness unless, and spiritual/religious opinions are protected under the First Amendment. Minority opinions are not mental illness.
In Leon's forum; NO NEED FOR AN INVESTIGATIVE JUDGMENT
I questioned JohnB about the symbolism for valid reasons, not just to attack for the sake of attacking. I was very concerned because of implications, as well as magick possibly being used? I posed the test question John stated in I John 4, whether Jesus Christ came in the flesh, which was never answered by JohnB. I believe we had exchanges before this.
Here is the question:
I HAD POSED THESE BIBILICAL TESTS PREVIOUSLY.
NEVER ANSWERED BY JOHNB?
IF ANYONE ASKS ME I WILL GLADLY SAY, "JESUS CHIRST CAME IN THE FLESH AND IS THE SON OF GOD," WITHOUT HESITATION OR REMAINING SILENT.