Dont you think the Adventists do not speak in tongues? I have never heard an Adventist speak or pray in tongues. i was born in the SDA church and i do not remember any teaching from my childhood about speaking in tongues from the church.I came to take this in consideration like this year when i started college reading on my own, and i got clarification on the subject by the other brothers i have started studying the Bible with in school and they are from different churches. Then i wonder why it it that i didnt learn this from my own church like other subjects and why i havent anyone speak in tongues.
Help me out. i never understood it when other people did it and really didnt care and didnt want to associate with these people, but now that i know the truth, like the reason behind this 'language' im really eager to speak in tongues and associate with these people who have the ability.
help me out here, is like the adventists are not much onto this issue.
Thanks for answering.
Number 2 sends shivers down my spine. you are not certain about Act 2. but yet you want to base the phenomena on a correction which paul is addressing in 1 corinthians 14. i say we study the actual gifts as originated from acts and base it on that, not a correction per se.
Lets discuss these one by one.
1.Mar_16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit without measure. Why did he not speak in tongues? it was not necessary as he came to the lost house of isreal and they all understood what he said.
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Here in is given the promise of the Holy Spirit. They shall be witnesses all over the earth. how were they to do this? these knew few languages but they are being told that they shall be witnesses all over the world when the Holy Spirit comes.
Acts 2 is to be our basis for its the first time the gift is experienced it. Here we see them speaking different languages. The listeners were astonished! it was a sign for these unbelievers that something was going on here. Either drunkeness or something else. Peter in answering said
"Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Act 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Here the SIT was clearly speaking languages which they had never learnt. It was a sign for the unbelievers as they knew that these guys did not their (unbeliever) language yet they heard things of God. thou shalt not add to this. Its clear.
Next episode is Acts 10. There, 12 individuals spoke in tongues. Peter commenting just before the episode said;
Act 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
verse 47 says they received the Holy Ghost "as we". Peter was there at pentecost and he says as we. this was just like pentecost but now the gentiles also had the gift. and where baptized. It is not a private affair but public to be a sign for unbelievers, this is important to note.
Te last episode is Acts 19
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Act 19:7 And all the men were about twelve.
The wording here is as Acts 2. I have no reason to think this one is any different. Do you?
It is always a good practice to move from that which is clear to that which is obscure. The clear portion sets the pace. You say its uncertain because you started with that which was obscure, a correction being made in the corinthian church.
From the 3 episodes in Acts, it shows that these were signs for the unbelievers, it was for witnessing (anyone involved in witnessing knows who gets edified, the speaker of course). I re when i went witnessing using storacles of prophecy guidelines room by room to campus friends. It was the most powerful experience i have ever encountered. Witnessing edifies the "witnesser". however let me be quick to say that this type of witnessing can not be compared to my door to door evangelism. this was supernatural, both though edifies the church.
Prophecy on the other hand is for exhorting the believers, for the growth of the church.
I pause here before we head off to 1 corinthians 14. i have not listened to the videos you have posted as am wary of drifting into the occult and i avoid that whcih is gray. if by this study am convinced there is smething there, i shall watch.
It is amazing how much of what you have written above has no Biblical backing.
The Day of Pentecost did not have the "added" phenomenon of people understanding in there own tongue - that was the phenomenon; the unlearned apostles spoke in the native languages of those in attendance. That is what the Biblical record states.
In the few references that we have to tongues-speaking in the Bible it is always associated with speaking a foreign language not with speaking a language that no-one present knows. Paul speaks of this and states that it would be unprofitable if someone was speaking a language that no-one resent knew - that would not be edifying, it would be the opposite.
Where does Acts say that Cornelius and family were speaking anything other than a known tongue?
The confusion that has set in is quite simple: it was never an issue in the church until the late 19th century in Scotland and then it suddenly became a "must-have" for salvation.
The idea of angels having their own language is not supported in scripture, it is derived from a corruption of Paul's writings.
You just don't get it. You probably never will. What about the other manifestations of holy spirit, you despise tongues, what about the other 8 manifestations? what about healing? what about miracles? etc.?
You still haven't addressed the issue of why there is no power of God in the churches for the most part in comparison to the Book of Acts. Why, holy spirit hasn't changed? God hasn't changed? You have no answers for that?
I Corinthians 2:4-5 "4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
"I the Lord God desire that my children trust me and believe my word, for my word is true and able to subdue whole armies or heal the sick. But my people reject my word and proclaim their own way, thinking that this is good. I say it is not good. I have laid out my word by the prophets from ancient times, yet you have not danced to my tune, nor ceased from making your own way, a way which I have not told."
Thus my people do not harken to me, though I love them with a deep and burning love, they proclaim religion while not seeking and trusting in me, the living one true God.
I would that you would be quickened by the spirit, but nay you would have none of it. You study and talk, but have been slack in my word, neither seeking my counsel or asking my way. You speak evil of dignities you know nothing about. But I do not forsake you, though you pervert the truth and rely on your own ways which are contrary to my ways."
James, you are one arrogant self righteous man. You dismiss everyone who disagrees with you, and assume that you have all the truth to your self.
Confidence in God is not the same as arrogance. Arrogance is thinking you know something about what you have never done, arm chair spirituality like arm chair generals, who have never experienced trench warfare, but send troops in needlessly to be slaughtered, like in World War I.
We are in a spiritual war, Life and Death struggle for both physical and spiritual life, as well as our freedoms and health and families are at stack, and many of you want to stay behind the lines were it is relatively safe. Most of you I believe have no conception of how the spirit works judging from your posts, yet some have the audacity, and arrogance to proclaim judgment on speaking in tongues, which you have never done, yet you think you can judge. You wrest the scriptures as Peter said about Paul's writings; I am meek because I took God at His word that what He said and what His Son said are true, and acted on it. God does not give devil spirits to His children, for there are two words important in Greek regarding receiving the holy spirit. Decomai, which means to receive subjectively, which means receive spirit but not into manifestation, and lambano, which means to receive into manifestation, which means to manifest holy spirit by some means, speaking in tongues etc.Most believers receive decomai, but never manifest the power of God (lambano). It is blasphemy almost to call God's holy spirit occultic or of the Devil. That can only be determined by both the Word of God, and the spirit of God by revelation, discerning of spirits; for spiritual things are spiritually discerned, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
No, I don't know everything, but I know about this field to some extent, and the arrogance of those with arm chair spirituality is astonishing. Most of you shy away from speaking in tongues, which is Biblical, but you think its all Satanic. Woe to them who call good evil and evil good. I can literally say just like the Apostle Paul, though I am not an Apostle, "I thank my God I speak in tongues more than ye all."
Most of you I beleive have never spoken in tongues? Lets get real; have any of you spoken in tongues and interpreted? Prophesied? Received word or message of knowledge, of wisdom, discerning of spirits? Perhaps a few? Have any of you operated the manifestation of faith, to beleive to bring to pass the impossible at your command as directed by God as received by revelation as above?
Have any of you ministered gifts of healing to anyone at any time as directed by God? Have any of you worked miracles as directed by God?
I have, and I have faught off people trying to kill me many times, I have believed God for a hedge of protection and had an attacker run into the hedge of protection force field like a science fiction movie. I have been involved in ministering to a woman walking for the first time in 7 years, yes I spoke in tongues for her and she walked, just like in the Book of Acts. God and I have walked together for 40 years almost come February. I speak not in arrogance, but as Paul said "That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God."
I have ministered healing and working of miracle in a woman that was pregnant with a breach baby conceived out of wedlock. Many Christians would think God wouldn't deal with her, as she sinned. But she came to me as she was in the ministry I was in, and she trusted me and asked for healing. I got the green light from God and asked her to pray in tongues, yes the occultic tongues as you accuse me of using (I speak tongue in cheek), and asked her to get quiet and speak in tongues which is perfect prayer and believe God.
We were at Heidi Pies in San Mateo, where I witnessed daily to people and read and studied my Companion Bible. I was smoking cigerettes and drinking a gallon of coffee; you would say that would quench the spirit; NO: God still worked. We were standing in the parking lot and it was night time. God immediately showed me visual revelation of the baby in a green fuzzy ultrasound like picture, with its feet first position. I was directed to command the baby to rotate 180 degrees which immediately happened, and she felt it move and I saw it move in the vision.
The child was born normally head first, his name was Thomas, and the mother married a guy that had a steady job. She didn't have to have a C section. I eventually quit smoking, but I still enjoy a good cup of coffee, and the spirit of God still works.
Those who pass judgment on what they know nothing about, and accuse foolishly and falsely of demonic counterfeit a person who only wants believers to receive into manifestaton what God has already given them, for the betterment of the church, and without pay...for 40 years, NOW, thats arrogance in my book. Thats why the spirit lead me to write the above post that just flowed out of me.
I thank God I know how to manifest the spirit of God, as it has been lost for 2000 years. And you accuse me of evil. The quenching of the spirit of God and refusing to obey the clear language of scripture and the commandments of God as stated in I Corithians 14 is a sin, and there are consequences for not operating God's spirit when He wants us to. There are numerous missed healings, prophesies, blessings, because of self-willed ignorance and autonomy by many Christians. The church is in apostasy, including the SDA for the most part; These are dark days and getting darker, will you continue to be stiff necked many of you and spiritually uncircimcised?
Many of you are kind and operate the love of God. Others are mockers, speaking evil of those things you know not. Love will cover a multitude of sins. I pray that Christians wake up and believe God. You read and study, but it is not mixed with believing, which is action, not arm chair spirituality. You are too concerned some of you, with touch not, handle not, all carnal matters. If you were spiritually minded, you would be operationg the power of God or want to find out about it, like I did in 1975 when I was told what tongues was good for as well as the other manifestations.
Jason, why is gift is quotes? Speaking in tongues is most certainly a spiritual gift. Interpreting is a spiritual gift too, so it is not necessary for everyone hearing the tongue speaker to understand him.
Though the word "gifts" is not in the original text, it is rightly supplied by our translators, as it is in the Arabic version: for the apostle does not mean spiritual graces, nor spiritual words, or doctrines, nor spiritual meats and drinks, nor spiritual men, each of which are mentioned before in this epistle; though the latter is thought by some to be here intended, and that the apostle's view is to show the difference between those that are spiritual, and those that are not; but as spiritual gifts are the subject of the apostle's discourse throughout this chapter, and the two following, they seem very manifestly to be designed here.
I speak Spanish. Therefore, I speak in tongues.
A thought from 1Corinthians 13.
"Charity never faileth [i.e. love will never pass away]: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail [i.e. pass away]; whether there be tongues, they shall cease..." (13:8).
Tongues shall "cease" -- this suggests to me that "tongues" were a temporary gift.
It was needed for the original dissemination of the Gospel, but now it's time has, for the main part, ceased.
It did not cease, because Jesus Christ that which is perfect (Jesus Christ) has not come back yet.
I Corinthians 13: " 8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity."
The sacred secret period (musterion) which some call the age of grace, continues until chapter 10 of The book of Revelation:
" 7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery (sacred Secret: Greek musterion) of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. 8And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth. 9And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey. 10And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter. 11And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings."
The sacred secrets were hidden in God until revealed to the Apostle Paul. Part of the sacred secret is the manifestations of holy spirit, including speaking in tongues which almost all of you shun.
Romans 16: 24The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. 25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery (musterion; Sacred Secret), which was kept secret since the world began, 26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: 27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen. Written to the Romans from Corinthus, and sent by Phebe servant of the church at Cenchrea."
According to the commandment of the everlasting God...for the obedience of faith. Do you understand the musterion given to Paul by God. Are you obedient to it? Most of you never heard of it. EGW only mentions the mystery briefly, which is the word musterion (Sacred Secret) transliterated into English as mystery, which is not a translation. The musterion is used by Paul throughout his epistles including we are to be stewards of the musterion, you can't be a steward or obedient to what you do not know.
The Musterion is most important, THINK, HIDDEN IN GOD SINCE THE WORLD BEGAN, UNTIL REVEALED TO THE APOSTLE PAUL. YOU WANT TO DEFY GOD? CALL HIS MANIFESTATIONS OCCULTIC? DEMONIC?
YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED THOSE OF YOU WHO TALK THAT WAY. ITS NOT ME, BUT THE WORD THAT YOU ATTACK.
These things ARE in the occult. you want us to simply experience "it" without understanding? your duty is not to shame us or anything but to clearly explain your positions. we shall need to explain to others too. if its not clear how are we to do that? you should be wise enough to start from our adventist doctrine. i belief truth is progressive and at no time should someone say "i got it all". if its from the LORD am challenging you tp present this info in an organised biblical way that shall stand the most critical investigations. only then can you "shame" us if we reject it.
Lets keep on reading and discussing. There are many schools of though out there however the majority of us here are SDAs and so have a certain teaching about tongues. The Musterion thingy is just creepy. God has not left us in mystery. yes we do not understand some things but to base an experience on mystery is just a no no go area for me. i live in africa and such kind of staff are plenty.
A brother gave an experience he had with SIT and to him it was demonic. how are we to KNOW? i say throw out all experience and we go to the Bible alone and allow it to explain clealy. if its not clear, we play safe for then its not biblically profitable.
The bible and bible ONLY as the rule of faith and practice (experience).
My good brother, the Bible is clear on its terminology of "speaking in tongues". I am sorry that the Word of God is not going in your favour. I also want you to be aware that in this world, Satan can manifest as an angel of light; and, from you previous post, where you are say that you have done this miracle or that miracle, is premise for you to take introspection. For it is the Holy Spirit that works, not you. If the Holy Spirit is not the one working, then Satan is working. For he can work miracles too. That is the cold reality. My brother I encourage you to look to Jehovah, Jesus and the Holy Spirit and Their Holy Words again, go into an honest pray, base on the information shared with you and ask the Holy Spirit to confirm this Word that was shared. The Holy Spirit gifts that were given from Pentecostal Day, was to be use for to spread the news in their time that the man they crucify is the Messiah.