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Good afternoon everyone...I would like to solicite

your idea about these issue in Revelation chapter 14

because I'm a little bit confused concerning this issue.

 

 1. My first question is the 144,000 literal?

 

  2. Is 144,000 is the rock of Daniel 2?

 

  3. An angel sent by God to SDA  not member of 144,000.

 

  4. Great multitude is a different group apart from 144,000. It comsist of non SDA people.

 

 

I hope you will contribute your idea about this issue...GOD BLESS

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JOBEL

You asked some good questions, hopefully I can give as good of an answer. G You asked:

1. My first question is the 144,000 literal?

No. The very first verse of Revelation puts us on notice that we are dealing with Symbols in this book. Unless one get's Revelation 1:1, 2 right, they will have problems with the other parts of this important book.

For more on this, see my website, see the address below. Then go to the section on Resources, then click on Revelation. Here is some very important information on how to understand apocalyptic style of literature, which is the type of literature found in Revelation. These verses inform the reader of two things.
A. That the subject of Revelation is: "What must take place."
B. That we are dealing with a book of symbols, except for the last couple three chapters, where symbolism obviously ends.

2. Is 144,000 is the rock of Daniel 2?

It is my opinion that with the information I have, the answer is no. The rock in Daniel is the second coming of Jesus. While the 144,000 is a segment of those who return to Heaven with Jesus after He comes the second time.

3. An angel sent by God to SDA not member of 144,000.

I see no connection here at all.

4. Great multitude is a different group apart from 144,000. It comsist of non SDA people.

This is true. The "Great Multitude," is all of those who are saved from the foundation of the earth, which was long before the SDA church was formed. Only a minor contingent of this group will be from the SDA church, although all will have the same core beliefs.

Maranatha :)
Ray
www.basicsoftheword.com

Point 4 - Great multitude is a different group apart from 144,000. It comsist on non SDA people

 

If this is true -This is true. The "Great Multitude," is all of those who are saved from the foundation of the earth, which was long before the SDA church was formed (What if you join the adventist church way after the church was formed and are part of  the thousands of adventist today, unless u part of the 144 000 - where then do you (and the rest of us) fit in . Only a minor contingent of this group will be from the SDA church, although all will have the same core beliefs (What will happen to all of the thousand of sincere adventist believers all over the world).

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Avrille,

 

In regard to point 4 - it is my understanding that the 144,000, being those who are "redeemed from the earth", are those who are alive when Christ comes having stood in the time of trouble without an intercessor.

 

The numberless multitude are all those who fell asleep in Christ before His return. This includes people from the beginning of time up to the close of probation. I do not believe that we can say that either group is exclusively SDA but all will be "in Christ".

 

I hope this helps.

 

Hi John B

I thank you for your reply. I understand that the 144000 being those who are redeemed from the earth.

 

The great multitude will be both adventist, and non adventist IN CHRIST that will be resurrected at HIS coming.

We are talking about TWO groups of saints - yes or no

 

Yes. :-)

 

One, the living saints who are translated,

 

the other, the dead in Christ of all ages resurrected to join the translated in the air.

The Bible says that the dead in Christ will rise first (important) and those who remain alive will then be caught up to meet them in the air. 

 

"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."--1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

 

 

 

Arville, the 144,000 (symbolic or otherwise--whichever the Lord decides) will be made of those who are alive and translated, period.

Hello Jobel,

 

1. My first question is the 144,000 literal?

 

 

“John Revelator heard the 144,000(Rev. 7)” “Ellen G. White saw in vision the 144,000 in number(Early Writings p.15)”. The question, Is there any clear statement that EGW saw 144,000 in number and John Revelator heard 144,000 from all the tribe of Israel?

 

The bible say "Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he." Proverbs 29:18.

 

"The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple." Psalm 19:7.

 

 The "law" means the Bible, because it is the Father's word based on His ten commandment law given to mankind; and the "testimony" is the word of Jesus (Mt.24:35) in the Spirit of prophecy (Rev. 19:10) --the writings of His prophetess Sis. E. G. White. It is by this law and testimony that tests all Seventh-day Adventist doctrine to prove if it is "pure" or not. Those who teach any other doctrine, the saints would know it is not "pure" and "there is no light in them"!

 

I will say the 144,000 is literal, But when I say literal I’m not saying that only 144,000 will be saved living saints in the Church. We need just to understand the words “one of” and “one with”.

 

example: "Now when the even was come, he(Jesus) sat down with the twelve." Matt. 26:20. Jesus is one with the twelve but He is not one of the twelve, The twelve disciple is literal.

 

2. Is 144,000 is the stone(not rock) of Daniel 2?(Jesus is the Rock)

 

"If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ."  1 Peter 2:3-5.

 

1. Jesus is a living stone

2. chosen of God, (his faithful servant) Ye also, as lively stones, 

 

If you read Daniel 2:45 that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands

What is mountain in the bible? "And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house{His Church} shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it." Isa. 2:2(bold emphasis, braces added).

 

Observe that "the stone" (the Kingdom) does not become a great mountain until after it smites the image, showing that the Kingdom begins in its infancy with only the first fruits(144,000), who soon stand on Mount Zion with the Lamb, and who later, after they have garnered in the second fruits of the living, smite the nations finally there come from the grave the saved of all ages fully to make up the "great mountain".

 

 

3. An angel sent by God to SDA  not member of 144,000.

what you are talking about Rev.18:1?

 

4. Great multitude is a different group apart from 144,000. It comsist of non SDA people?

 

Yes, great multitude is different group from 144,000.

 

"And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem." Isa. 2:3.

 

The 144,000 is a numbered company (Rev. 7:4) of living Christian saints who are sealed in the Seventh-day Adventist church, and who never die. And that is the reason why the great multitude is also mentioned in the same chapter (Rev. 7:9); because they, too, are living Christian saints who never die. But where do they come from? Certainly not from the same Seventh-day Adventist church where the 144,000 come from, because the members of that church number only a few million; whereas the great multitude are so many saints that "no man could number" them (Rev. 7:9).

Therefore, the other "we" Christian saints (the great multitude) must come from the Protestant Churches (Babylon) and those out in the world; and they will be brought together into God's kingdom church (Dan. 2:28, 44).

 

"Many of the Protestant churches are following Rome's example of iniquitous connection with 'the kings of the earth'--the state churches, by their relation to secular governments; and other denominations, by seeking the favor of the world. And the term 'Babylon'--confusion--may be appropriately applied to these bodies, all professing to derive their doctrines from the Bible, yet divided into almost innumerable sects, with widely conflicting creeds and theories."--Great Controversy, pg. 383:1 (bold emphasis, braces added).

 

May the Lord help us,

 

Jared.

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