The 2300 days
Part 1.
Introduction.
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The “2300 days” is one component of a larger prophecy. I will try to explain it, but unfortunately, if we want to understand the 2300 days, it cannot really be isolated from the context.
The prophecy is found in Daniel 8. It starts with a series of “Beasts” that are later explained as Nations or Empires. The first of these Beasts is “Great”, the next is “Very Great”, and then there comes another power, and it becomes “Exceedingly Great”.
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The angel Gabriel explains that the first Beast (a Ram with two horns), represents the united kingdoms of Media and Persia. (Dan 8:16, 20). The second Beast (a Goat with a single, prominent horn between his eyes), represents the kingdom of the Greeks under the leadership of Alexander. The ‘picture-story’ goes on to show that the Goat attacks the Ram and defeats him. (The Greeks defeat the Medes and Persians.)
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Then the Goat’s “great horn was broken.” Alexander the Great died “at his zenith”. In place of that great horn, 4 other horns came up. (Alexander had no successor, and “when his generals asked him to whom he left his empire he answered “To the strongest”.) The Empire fragmented, and eventually it came down to 4 divisions.
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Then, over the course of time, “out of one of them” [out of the Macedon “horn” (or division) of the divided Greek Empire], “came forth a little horn”. Rome grew up in “Greek Italy”, until finally it overcame and succeeded the Greek power. The Roman power became “exceedingly great”.
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In this prophecy the little horn represents the entire Roman phase of history – Imperial and Papal Rome. Although for the main part, the prophecy goes on to describe the work of Papal Rome. It takes away the daily, and casts down the truth to the ground, etc.
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Then Daniel hears a question.
“Then I heard one saint [i.e. “holy one”] speaking, and another saint said to that certain saint which spoke, ‘How long shall be the vision concerning the daily, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?’”
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And he said to me, Unto 2300 days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.” (Dan 8:13:14)
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Now the original question was not, “How long would the little horn continue to do these things [i.e. take away the daily, cast down the truth to the ground, etc]?” When Gabriel eventually explains the answer, we find that it does NOT specifically relate to the Church of Rome; it has a much broader application.
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[Does anyone disagree with any of these fundamentals?]
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Daniel on -
the whole vision started in fall 457 BC. adding the 2300 days/years it brings you to fall of 1844 AD.
the first part began with the 70 weeks. which is 490 days/years. which when added brings you to fall of 34 AD.
babylons reign was from 605 BC to 539 BC. media-persia reigned from 538 BC to 331 BC.
so when you look at it, prophecy started with the great image that nebuchadnezzar had. but the 2300 days/years was from 457 BC to 1844 AD
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Permalink Reply by Stewart on -
Daniel, you write that "the whole vision started in 457 BC." And yet the vision starts with the Ram (Media-Persia as you say), and you dated the time of the Ram from 538BC to 331 BC (I agree with those dates).
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In what sense do you mean that the whole vision started in 457 BC?
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Do you understand that God starts the vision about 80 years into the time of the Medo-Persian Empire? Even though Daniel received the vision in the 3rd year of king Belshazzar... before Babylon was taken by the Medes and the Persians?
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The question that Daniel hears, is not "How long will this entire vision last?" Or "How long will it be until the daily is taken away?" The question is "How long shall be the vision concerning the daily... and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?"
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Permalink Reply by DMJ on
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The question in Daniel 8 is: "How long shall truth & error be mixed to deceive God's people"?
If we look at the question correctly, we will see that Satan used different means & methods to deceive God's people while they were in captivity.
During the 2300 yr. prophecy time-frame, Medo-Persia tried to exterminate the Jews (in the story of Esther),
Greece tried to introduce pagan philosophy to the world by deceiving Gods people through perverted educational processes.
Pagan Rome tried to keep Gods people in bondage & blind so that they would never look to the True Redeemer and so that they would never know what they really needed "redeeming" of. The Jews thought that their freedom would come from Roman bondage instead of the bondage of sin. So their views of the Messiah were distorted.
Papal Rome mixed all of the previous errors presented and cloaked it with a garb of religion & christianity.
At the end of the 2300 days/yrs, God introduced a movement that was free from all pagan error. God gave us a pure faith. Satan is now attacking Gods Church with all the deceptions that he used during the 2300 days (Medo-Persia,Greece,Pagan Rome & Papal Rome).
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Permalink Reply by teresa on -
At the end of the 2300 days/yrs, God introduced a movement that was free from all pagan error. God gave us a pure faith.
Nooo, we are not free from all error. The pioneers never claimed the SDA church was free of error. We are only human so of course we will still have error, but as we continue to seek the Lord, He will continue to cleanse us.
If we were free from all error we would be infallible and that we are not.
Notwithstanding the widespread declension of faith and piety, there are true followers of Christ in these churches. Before the final visitation of God’s judgments upon the earth there will be among the people of the Lord such a revival of primitive godliness as has not been witnessed since apostolic times. The Spirit and power of God will be poured out upon His children. At that time many will separate themselves from those churches in which the love of this world has supplanted love for God and His word. Many, both of ministers and people, will gladly accept those great truths which God has caused to be proclaimed at this time to prepare a people for the Lord’s second coming. {GC 464.1}
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You missed the point.
The Lord gave us a "pure faith" that was free from human opinion. He gave us the message Himself (see Revelation 10). God Himself started this church/movement.
This movement was built upon the foundation of eternal truth which God gave to our pioneers & EG White.
The point is that after 2300 dys/yrs, God "cleansed the sanctuary" by ridding of PAGANISM and giving us a God-given truth/message for this time.
I agree totally with the points you just presented. We need a Reformation & Revival of "primitive godliness".
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Permalink Reply by teresa on
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Since we clearly view this differently but are hijacking the brother's thread, I will not respond...
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Permalink Reply by Stewart on
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DMJ, in essence I agree with most of what you've said in the post beginning "The question in Daniel 8 is: How long..."
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Although, your reference to the story of Esther doesn't seem to fit within the 2300 years. (Ussher dates the beginning of Esther at about 521BC, and the end at about 495BC -- so it looks like Esther is outside the time-frame.)
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But as I say, in essence I agree with you. The problems referred to in Daniel 8:13 are long lasting... running through the history of empire after empire.
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The Moffatt translation gives Daniel 8:13 thus:
"Then I overheard an angel speaking, and another angel said to the speaker, "How long is this to last..?" And of course the answer is 2300 years.
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(I do share Teresa's concern over the thought that the Advent movement was free from all pagan error.)
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Ok i do see you guys point...as to the story of Esther, its the principle of the nature of the Medo-Persian empire. Once they made a law, it stuck. They couldnt change it. (Infallibility). Gods people (the Jews) had to go up against this type of reasoning power, just like we today---Gods people today (SDA Church) has to go up against that same error.
My point is that every error that came to pass during th 2300 day/yr time-frame is being re-used again against Gods people. In 1844, God ushered in a movement that was to counter-act all of this error. (In 2300 days shall the "sanctuary" be cleansed). God began a movement that was to cleanse the minds of all the people from pagan error. The Bible says, "The truth shall make you free!"
I hope you guys can see my point now. I hope i made myself a little clearer:)
May God bless us all as we continue to study His important truths for this time:)
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Permalink Reply by Daniel on
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daniel saw in a vision that was still furure at his time. babylon ruled from 605 BC to 539 BC.
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