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Given the great popularity of David Gates and his messages in SDA circles, the following Biblical and detailed discussion about him may be beneficial to SDAs.

Topics discussed in this document are:
David Gates’ Lazarus Experience
- The Spiritual Implication/Application of Gates’ Lazarus Experience
- Conclusion
Epilogue - Laodicean Dilemma
Epilogue II - (June 2010+)
- Gates’ Second Prophetic Campaign
Epilogue IIB - “Lazarus Is Dead”
Epilogue III - Gates’ 9/11/2010 Crisis!??
Epilogue IIIB - (November 2010+)
New re-Beginnings!!? - (Faith Camp Series Jun-July 2011)
September 2011+ Regreting Relapsing!??
Important: There is a 22-page analysis of David Gates’ “Joseph Story Prophecy” message on this blog post (see in (now) Note #42):
The vast majority of the claims made by Gates do not at all check out in various key aspects.
Feel free to reply/comment either here or on the blog.
God Bless.
NJK Project

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NJK, I've read partly what your accessement on Br. Gates and your harsh conclusion, thought factualy largely true, however the brotherly empathy is missing; thus you're lacking the spirit. I understand your objective is to expose falsehood and that Br. Gates mission is large and impacting many. I see the need of this. So I don't want to criticize your (or NJK) work as I don't know you, and only read briefly NJK objective and purposes. However, I do see a lack in the spirit of brotherly love and compassion in your writing.

What we see in Br. Gates is he has rejected truths. However, aren't we all guilty of the same? Even, let's go deeper in searching the source of the problem, isn't this rejection of Truth started in 1888. God did show this Church some truths initially, but when it came to reveal the first real gem of the latter rain, our Church rejected it and slided into a severe Laodicean state. So really we are all children of that phenomena trying to be faithful to a Church that is still slidding deeper.

How can you criticize Br. Gates without acknowledging this. And I wonder, my brother, have you accepted the RBF message yourself? Do any of us even know it? I know many claim they do, however, I see the same denying scriptures and adding interpretation to them to meet the Church's interpretation of the Gospel message. How can God rain/teach(h3384 = teach) individuals who are incapable of putting all pre-conceived ideas or intrepretations aside?

God's purpose will be fulfilled and it will be through the fire of tribulation. Br. Gates is going through that fire right now. Let's all have understanding and compassion to one another.

My heart goes to Br.Gates as he's a product of this phenomena. We don't know all the ins and outs what he's dealing with. It's not an excuse, but we definetly all fall short. My prayers is that Br. Gates will soon learn through all of this, and will stand up and confess his shortcomings and make God is ONLY teacher, counselor, provider, and His strenght.

God Bless Br. Gates

and Bless you too NJK, for what you are undertaken is huge.

Blessings!
In all seriousness and sincerity Blessings, if you think I am lacking the Biblical Spirit for duly and justly reproving these deliberate and indifferent blatant public wrongdoings of David Gates, you are lacking Biblical Spiritual discernment. You would probably say the exact same thing to e.g., Samuel (vs. Saul (Hagag)); Elijah (vs. the Prophets of Baal), Nehemiah (vs. Jews (e.g., Neh 13:25)) ; John the Baptist and Jesus (vs. the leaders in Israel); among many others. As I call for on my blog David Gates’ waywardness is deserving of a formal censure. He is fully aware of his deliberate guilefulness and indifference towards factual and actual Biblical truth, so I will not cower and shy from indeed exposing him for the prideful fraud he insists on being. I fear God, not any man like David Gates. The cause at hand is too great, and like the SOP says, such false works of revival, especially involving condemned time-settings, will only cause a detrimental backlash and do damage to God’s true work. As Jesus counselled in Matt 18:17, when someone refuses to hear any just reproof then do “treat them as a Gentile or tax-collector” (i.e., as someone who has absolutely no interest in the cause of God or welfare of God’s people.) Also I do not mind at all criticism. As long as it is factual and true for my aim is having absolute truth.

In regards to the 1888 Message, it has now come to be blown way out of contextual proportion by those who preach it. That message was given in the context of the early SDA Church then being staunch legalists, and thinking that they were going to be saved because the kept the 10 Commandments and other Biblical teachings. So God led Waggoner and Jones to present the Biblical view that righteous and salvation is only by faith in Jesus Christ and His sacrifice and not by the works of the law. It seems that the Church has by now learned this lesson, however because some think that the Second Coming will occur once this message is understood, and obviously it has not yet occurred, then this simple teaching, (simple to us, but certainly not to that first generation of SDAs), has now morphed into some supposed mystical, ethereal or “unknowable” teaching, which in turns makes it some sort of legalistic doctrine that needs to be strivingly attained vs. the simple teaching than it really is. So you may need to re-examine the way you understand this Biblical Message and Teaching. I personally have no difficulty accepting something that is transparently and exegetically proven. And proper exegesis is multifaceted, including historical context, which is something that current proponents of their supposed “1888 Message” do not properly incorporate. (I have written a blog post on the latter rain which may shed some light upon its symbolic purpose.)

The Church’s current problem has more to do with it, like in, e.g., the parable of the Talents (Matt 25:14-30, and Christ’s explicit teaching in Matt 25:31-46; (cf. this derived blog post), ‘not investing its God-given and guided to resources into fully carrying out all that God expects of it in regards to this increasing world in both vital and spiritual need.’ I have come to concretely see that it is more important to endeavor to ‘do what is right’ then try to ‘merely be right.’ And doing what is right will never implicate untruths and falsehoods. Case in point, David Gates indeed set out to ‘do what is right,’ however he also thought that adhering to Biblical principles and truth was both subjectively and expediently optional.

I personally do not think, for biblical and documented reasons, that Gates is going through any kind of God-ordained tribulation. He is simply reaping the fruit of his unbiblicalness, guilefulness and waywardness, among other cultivated faults. (Gal 6:7; 1 Cor 9:11). He is also, as our God is indeed a most patient and merciful God, still receiving where/when rightly due and spiritually allowable, the reward for any genuine faith, as anyone, even heathens who express faith in God also can. However true faith in God will not resort to falsehoods and deception, among other sins, to seek to receive God’s promises. Just as Sarah, Abraham and Hagar.

Your prayer for David Gates is commendable, however I do not think that this is what he himself wants, or at least, thinks he needs, so don’t be surprised if it cannot be answered in David Gates by God. This freedom of choice and action that God gives us goes both ways.

Thanks for the blessing for the NJK Project. While it is indeed a huge undertaking, it is, through the cooperation of those who have the same Biblically-minded objective, quite achievable. Currently the resources needed to easily and readily accomplish this project are literally being “offered” by God’s people and Church to the quite wasteful, inefficient and God-opposing system of Capitalism, notwithstanding where God guides He does adequately also provide for. (If you still want an answer to your questions on the NJK Project do resend it, I cannot relocate it. Thanks.).

God Bless,
NJK Project
NJK,

Thank you for your reply. I might be mis-understanding you, could you answer these questions so to help me know where you stand via the Church.

Is the NJK Project an SDA Church supported project?

Are you saying in the above that the SDA Church didn't reject Truth in 1888 and are not in a Laodicean state?

NJK : " I personally do not think, for biblical and documented reasons, that Gates is going through any kind of God-ordained tribulation. He is simply reaping the fruit of his unbiblicalness, guilefulness and waywardness, among other cultivated faults."

B : Aren't we all going through tribulation? To say it is "God-ordained" or not, I would think anyone that has entered in God's work in a great extend is going through more tribulations than the ones that sits home and watch TV after a typical bread-earning-job. My point in my post is we all fall short NJK. I do see your points in things David shouldn't of said in public and should of kept it for himself like setting dates. We all feel that the end time is near and when events climax, then often say to each other, " I think we only have so much time left". Br. Gates being involve in the world affairs and in our Church, sees much more than the average people gets from the media and can see that this awareness of the end time is more in front of his eyes. Again, I don't want to give him an excuse, but extend some understanding.

NJK : I have come to concretely see that it is more important to endeavor to ‘do what is right’ then try to ‘merely be right.’

B: I agree

NJK : And doing what is right will never implicate untruths and falsehoods.

B: What happens if some SDA doctrines are not sound and the individual is being a loyal SDA not questioning doctrines?

Amish, had a point in regards to 'opinion' versus theological incorrectness. Could you give us a simple list of what theological falsehoods David Gates is guilty of?

Also, is it possible to know your name? Personally, I have as an opinion if a man is going to make a publick reprove to an important figure like David Gates, plus promoting a uge project like the NJK, I feel he should be personally liable to what he says and people should not their name. I couldn't find your name anywhere in the NJK website nor on the blog. Maybe I missed it.

Blessings!
T: i did check out the one "blog post on the latter rain" and i disagree with your conclusions. i believe they were united in prayer as our pioneers were, seeking unity, putting aside unimportant differences and most importantly seeking to know personal unknown sins, defects and faults.

That is a surfacely plausible view however it is mostly actually merely “eisogesis” I.e., reading your own views into the text, especially your statement that ‘the disciples and our pioneers were “most importantly seeking to know personal unknown sins, defects and faults.”’ It is precisely this “navel-gazing” belief and attitude that is typical of most present-day “efforts” to bring about the Latter Rain that I am wearily denouncing. In the SOP’s elaboration of this account in Luke 24:53; Acts 1:14, thus AA 35-37, the emphasize is shown to be on the disciples eagerness, in the face of the great and joyous mission that was set before, to practically be capable of accomplishing this task. Their prayers were therefore “most importantly” aimed towards being fit for that special work. As the SOP says: “They did not ask for a blessing for themselves merely. They were weighted with the burden of the salvation of souls.” (p.37) The “known sin” that they were insistent on confessing and have forgiven was for their previous unbelief of Jesus Christ. Similarly our pioneers, when they gathered together soob after the Great Disappointment were earnestly praying to obtain an understanding for their recent experience and to build a new faith that comprised only actual Biblical teachings. Their prayers were mostly practically aimed towards obtaining the guidance of God in their study of the Bible and, like the Latter Rain, it was supernaturally granted to them in the confirming Gift of Prophetic Light. As I said before, and you agreed with, ‘seeking to do what is right goes a lot further than simply seeking to be right.’ The problem with the Church today is that it may so penitently pray for the Latter Rain, and seek to become spotlessly perfect to obtain it, however nothing tangible nor practical is done to accomplish the work that is promised to be done during the season of the Latter Rain, and the same unbiblical dysfunctional practices and systems remain fully in place and in effect, hoping to be anointed by the Latter Rain!?

Also, what actually are “unknown sins” actually, especially in the Biblical light of e.g., Rom 14:23? This would not be the same as “unconfessed sins”.

T: the last, i believe, is what we seem to leave out of our efforts to "bring" the latter rain. it is much too easy to become focused on others faults and defects. i know i have that problem.

Again, I know and believe that seeking instead to fix the various problems hindering our Great Mission will do much more to bring about the promised assistance of God’s Spirit than predominantly engaging in, ironically enough, actually, effectively, ‘pointeless complacent self-absorption’ (i.e., really ignoring the real, pertinent corporate sins, defects, problems and faults at hand.)
Now that I better understand the perspective of your statement here and as it is indeed the benevolent Christ-likeness revival that we should be earnestly praying for vs. the “Perfect me” self-adulations that are quite common in SDA circles, and which will result in us tangibly conforming all our unbiblical corporate and personal ways, then I fully agree with you. Indeed seeking to replicate Christ in his benevolent ministry was the aim and realization of the disciples and that is why God abundantly blessed their efforts. Again seeking to do what is right as Christ did is the key.
Hello Blessings,

Here are the answers to your questions (quotes of your questions are in bold)

“Is the NJK Project an SDA Church supported project?”

The NJK Project is not supported by the SDA Church, although they have been given the opportunity, and that, simply because they do not see, as I do, that doing all that we can to thoroughly help people in various vital need in the world is a mandate for the Church. I must be reading the wrong Bible and Gospel. Indeed this is where we inceptively diverge and this is a most significant difference of views affecting everything that we profess, including prophetic understandings, as explained in various posts on my blog. The Church claims its mission is predominantly to preach the truth and indeed that is solely what is predominantly seen in their Gospel efforts, and why their work is not in full harmony with what the Bible has to offer. Indeed try to get medical help at an SDA Hospital without money, means or insurance? They’ll self-righteously turn you away just like the rest of the Capitalistic world.

“Are you saying in the above that the SDA Church didn't reject Truth in 1888 and are not in a Laodicean state?”

The early generation of SDA’s did reject this message of Righteousness by Faith. However I believe that since then the Church has come to learn from that great error and, more than less, understand this message and accept it. Yet in the resulting prolonged time since 1888, the demands upon the Church have proportionally increased rightly and duly as their knowledge resources, membership and wealth has. That is why doing more significant humanitarian works is now even more fully, and inexcusably our duty. Yet this was also a message of EGW since her days as seen in e.g., the compilation book: Welfare Ministry.

It is because the Church is indeed in a Laodicean state that it is not doing all that God expects of her. However if you are equating solely ‘Righteousness by Faith’ with the ‘Laodicean Message,’ I think you do not have the full view of that latter message. For, on top of the symbolic allusion to the ‘covering provided by Christ’s righteousness’ (= “naked”) , the Laodicean message also includes counsels for the Church’s: ‘moral/behavorial reprehensibly’ (“wretched”); ‘lack of true love and joy’ (“miserable”); ‘worthlessness of misused institutions’ (“poor”); and ‘theologically/spiritually deficient’ (“blind”). All of these states can be rectified by simply doing the works that Jesus expects of us towards those in need as He insistently taught in the Gospels.

“Aren't we all going through tribulation? To say it is "God-ordained" or not, I would think anyone that has entered in God's work in a great extend is going through more tribulations than the ones that sits home and watch TV after a typical bread-earning-job. My point in my post is we all fall short NJK.”

David Gates has, and in some areas, is experiencing actual/Biblical “tribulation” however, if you carefully review his experience, much of the opposition and failures he has encountered is ultimately squarely due to his own choice of not adhering to Biblical principles, especially in regards to being truthful. God knows what He was saying when He emphasized a main characteristic of the 144,000 of ‘not having guile in their mouth’ Rev 14:5 Then any and all opposition for such ‘blameless ones’ can be defaultly understood as ‘tribulation’ and not, quite to the contrary, the reaping of one’s sins. That is why these 144,00 can make is through the final mental anguish of their Great Tribulation for they are blameless and thus their conscience is clear before God.

“I do see your points in things David shouldn't of said in public and should of kept it for himself like setting dates. We all feel that the end time is near and when events climax, then often say to each other, " I think we only have so much time left". Br. Gates being involve in the world affairs and in our Church, sees much more than the average people gets from the media and can see that this awareness of the end time is more in front of his eyes. Again, I don't want to give him an excuse, but extend some understanding.”

If there was a generation of SDA who had a reason for engaging in time-setting it was the generation living around the time of the 1888 message. They had a well-established prophet living among them who had made many specific prophecies in regards to a soon return of Christ; they now had the 1888 message, at least those who accepted it; they also had concrete and definite Sunday Law movements in the Legislative Hall of many U.S. Capitols, including the Federal Congress. Yet the directly inspired and categoric counsel then was ‘not to engage in any form, degree/type of time setting, including the “teflon” setting of a “possible range of years.” So why should this suddenly be acceptable and Biblical for David Gates. He may think this is nothing, but such blatant disobedience is a most serious sin, and he has paid, and is paying for this, and mainly because he rebelliously insists on continuing in this waywardness. Contrary to what Gates may think, truth is not determined by whatever he may have experienced, even evidently spirit-led fulfilled prophecies, but ultimately, solely by what the Bible teaches. Too many examples in the Bible clearly, concretely show this.

“What happens if some SDA doctrines are not sound and the individual is being a loyal SDA not questioning doctrines?”

When one “questions” a doctrine, it should be in the light of what the Bible is offering and not merely from personal/private preferences. So there is nothing wrong with challenging and questioning the soundness of a doctrine in this light. To not do so in not being “loyal”, especially as this is rightly due to Biblical Truth, but wrongly being oblivious and/or indifferent to the cause of Truth. I personally came to challenge SDA teachings when I (1) set out to try to present them to my friends and found out that they were full of proof holes; and subsequently (2) when I set out to seek to more significantly help those in need and then saw all that they Bible actually taught in this regards which the SDA Church did not, and actually was ignoring the explicit SOP on these matters.

So being a “loyal SDA” should not result in not questioning doctrine. The first century Jews were “loyal Jews: and that is why they crucified Jesus Christ. His Theological/Biblical views did harmonize with their traditions, yet all that Jesus was doing was “advancing their views to where they should by then be (e.g., Isa 56; 42:21) , and that anchored by the fulfillment of the 70 Weeks (e.g., Mark 1:15) as these leaders should have understood (e.g. cf. John 3:10). Indeed these leaders refused to help the needy in Jerusalem or spread the message of Truth with non-Jews and that is the reason why they could not see the Truth in Christ’s views.

“Amish, had a point in< regards to 'opinion' versus theological incorrectness. Could you give us a simple list of what theological falsehoods David Gates is guilty of?”

Inescapedly, whatever opinion David Gates may make in an attempt to substantiate his messages, are controlled by a deficient, spurious and/or outrightly false theology. So when he e.g., speculatively and baselessly claims that ‘George W. Bush converted to Catholicism,’ or that ‘a Jesuit was controlling a meeting between Bush and the GC President’ that is all out of a “theology” that (ultimately) God is allowing/causing predicted prophecy to be fulfilled, and that, according to him, is, reversed-engineeredly, all because: “the U.S. economy is surely about to totally collapse”.

The same deductive retracing to a theological tenet can be done with every opinion, or “Gateism” as I call them, that Gates makes.

In regards to some more explicit theological tenets of his:

-Gates’ date-setting is based upon his false (eschatological) theology, namely in regards to end time prophetic fulfillment, types vs. anti types, Bible Stories, etc.

-Gates’ Theology on non-fulfilled prophecies,

-Gates’ method of exegesis which lead to false Biblical interpretation and application.

-Gates view on how God considers the wealth of non-believers,

-Obviously Gates “theology” on doing whatever is necessary to accomplish God work, even illegal and/or sinful things.

-Gates’ view on ‘God and the Future,’ especially the fulfilling of prophecy.

etc.

Because Gates is viewing such things ‘as God supposedly does,’ based upon the Bible’s and SOP’s testimony, as any SDA preacher does, (or else Gates would not be saying these things, I presume), then these are indeed technically “theological views” of his.

Given that the SOP strongly and authoritatively counsel against not setting time, it is not surprising that this is my major issue against Gates in my blog, as this indeed has led all of his other false teachings, assumptions and predictions, which he still will not admit were wrong or unbiblical, but stubbornly and indifferently continues to build his high rise building upon this faulty foundation.

“Also, is it possible to know your name? Personally, I have as an opinion if a man is going to make a publick reprove to an important figure like David Gates, plus promoting a uge project like the NJK, I feel he should be personally liable to what he says and people should not their name. I couldn't find your name anywhere in the NJK website nor on the blog. Maybe I missed it.”

When I personally/privately contact people in regards to my blog or projects, I include my full name in the (email) message. However, currently, in the actual public post, I, thus far have not, mainly because of the, as indeed experience, ragefully mindless attitudes of people who either think I am trying to destroy their Church, and/or destroying their beloved economic god (i.e., Capitalism). However if you want to find my name you can do it, as the internet is in our day. When I can tangibly assure my personal security, my personal information will be more directly obtainable from these projects. However this really should not matter because, the truth and validity of what I am saying and planning really depends solely on what I have stated and proposed/planned, and not on me personally.

NJK Project
NJK continues ...
"I personally came to challenge SDA teachings when I (1) set out to try to present them to my friends and found out that they were full of proof holes;"

Like a localized flood? What other supposed holes in SDA theology do you claim exist?
Indeed for the very, various, main reasons stated in that blog post. Read my blog for more! You'll have to do more and better than this "surface/shallow tactic" to convince me otherwise, i.e., factually address/challenge what I have said. (Other answers to you previous statement will be written and posted when I have the time.)
This more factual view further validates the Biblical account of the flood and thus helps build faith in the Bible.
Amish,

I finally found your comments yesterday on your reasons for a Global Flood. It had been sent to my blog’s spam folder. In trying to process it, I accidentally deleted it completely. However, I did not find your stated arguments particularly conclusive, as they were answered namely by: (1) the forces involved in the flood causing the earth’s axis to shift probably caused tremendous, global earthquakes which would have made ‘an escape of people to non-flooded lands beyond the mountains’ futile, thus the need of an ark floating on water; (2) the containing of the flood waters resulting in ‘the covering of the highest mountain’ (Gen 7:20) could have been accomplished with the same wind forces that God used to cause the Red Sea crossing (Exo 14:21); and (3) arguments from geology are as subjective, and vary with almost every person presenting them, and the honest scientist will admit that this is, at best, only a theory, as some SDA geologists do. Notwithstanding, based upon the specific statement in Gen 7:19 of (literally): “... which were under all the heavens” and some SOP statements, particularly the one which says why certain portions of the earth were more affected than others (3SG 79), which corroborated the main reason for my previous localized flood view (i.e., only where people were living), I have temporally withdrawn that blog post to rework it to indeed emphasize this, now, “weighted flood (destruction)”. Again this water/flooding control is something that God can easily do, e.g., with wind forces (Exod 14:21), as scientist have recently confirmed/demonstrated for the Red Sea Crossing through a computerized model (See this page).

So I appreciate the comment, although, and quite honestly, that is not what directly caused this switch. Thanks anyway.
Hello Vincent. Interesting statement here. I can understand the clarification that you are trying to make however, as I mention in my comment on my blog post, Gates statement in regards to not intending this to have been a widely dispersed message is still illogical in that he does not mention in that sermon what you are saying here, i.e., that he was merely probing for feedback. So hence, this also would have been another guileful act, i.e., not specifying/clarifying this in that sermon but instead conveying that it was a simply unintentionally widely distributed. In fact it is thus not only guilefully illogical, but it is now also vacuously irrelevant as he did eventually make this a public sermon, which may have been his intention all along. It would have been quite another thing for him to never have followed this supposed “accidental distribution” with a sermon to now back it up and fully endorse it. So his statement, and whatever apologies he makes is nothing more than a diversionary tactic. The whole fact of this matter solely revolves around whether he believes in this message or not and publicly endorses/proclaims it as some sort of Biblical Truth and end time prophecy.

So as he, apparently calculatedly, does not make mention of an ‘accidental disbursement of a probing question’ in his sermon, then I rightfully cannot correct his knowingly expressed illogical and spurious statement in his sermon (i.e., how he then intended it to be understood/believed) that ‘he had not intended that sermon to be widely distributed.’

Nothing personal against you, but it is in seeking to justify/excuse Gates’ deliberate waywardness that he continues to have an audience and platform in the SDA Church for which to preach such misleading falsehoods.

Also Gates is doing more than preaching watchfulness and readiness. He is, and in direct and knowing, circumventing opposition to Biblical SOP counsel, setting definite dates. That is really my main problem with him, and the many other falsehoods of his are directly related to this stubborn, wrongful course

Thanks for the notice
If possible, please email me or post a copy of that letter.

NJK Project
I wanted to finish reading the blog about David Gates, but it is awfully long... I'm familiar with him. It seems teaching is not his specialty, but he likes to have a hand in it, anyway. He's one of those "people guys", who cares a lot about the well-being of people, and has a knack for finding resources to help them. I know a guy like that, where I live. He has a ministry, where he feeds the homeless on the Sabbath, and he shelters those among them, whom he believes are seeking truth. Then they get to watch evangelistic videos, while living in the houses that he owns. But teaching, and interpretation, are not his specialties. He gets hung up on weird theories. But it seems to me that he does the best with what he's got. And he's a faithful supporter of the Adventist work, and most conservative, in many ways. I know that different people, with their different gifts, can work together for the advancement of truth.

So far, I've watched 23 minutes of that video. He's saying the 144,000 are the bride of Christ, and everyone else, saved, are only invited guests. It does make sense. But what about this?

2 Cor. 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ.

Eph. 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.
5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Yet, still, no one is, literally, the bride of Christ. It's only a metaphor, anyway. Neither is Jesus, literally a vine, and neither are we, literally, branches. Nor olive branches. Neither is Christ literally a foundation, and we, building stones. Nor the builders. Nor sheep, nor feeding sheep. Again, more metaphoric. There's no need to keep going on and on, about men and women, getting married to Jesus, as if he's some sort of bisexual polygamist. I just find it creepy, to go on and on, like that.

No offense, or anything, brother Gates.

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