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..or those who question why God doesn't save everyone.

The wrong premise that comes with Universalism, is that the wicked will die is not true because it would then be a limitation in God, it holds that if all are not saved, it limits God and His ability to heal all sin. It really is failure on their part to realize that God cannot create character. God can create sinless beings, but the character must be developed by the freewill choices of the person. While God does possess the power to overwrite the individuality of a person and instill His perfection without their consent, to do so would destroy that person and create a basically a robot, where that person used to be. This action would violate God’s own character of love, which never compels, never coerces, and never forces. Love only exists in an atmosphere of freedom. So the Universalist idea, that God’s love will one day be so compelling that all will be overwhelmed and become godly, actually presents a God who is not love, but rather a dictator who forces everyone to be like Him. Genuine love, as painful as it is, allows the rejection of love.

The next idea that is problem in Universalism, is that forgiveness solves the sin problem. If sin is the breaking of rules and requires punishment, but Jesus paid the punishment, then wouldn’t God forgive everyone? And if God forgives everyone, won’t all be saved?

The argument is that there is no limit to God’s forgiveness; therefore, all are forgiven and so all will be saved. While it is true that God’s forgiveness is limitless and that He forgives everyone, forgiveness does not equal salvation.  For Universalists, if a person is pardoned, he or she is freed from the punishment of the law and since God forgives everyone, then everyone must be saved. But the reality we find is that while you can forgive a person for overdosing on drugs, the forgiveness doesn’t prevent the damage done and the user still dies.

Jesus forgave those who crucified Him, but the evidence shows that many were not changed by that forgiveness. They remained selfish, and full of iniquity and within their hearts still hated truth and love. Thus, if God would take them to heaven anyway, it would be a place of torture to them, as they by their choices, have rejected love and truth and developed selfish characters that will not find God’s unveiled infinite love and truth enjoyable, they rather flee from God, begging to have the mountains crush them to hide them from Him.

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You all seeing eye and Elijah both attacked me and continue to do so as you don’t like my criticism of Christianity in general and some SDA doctrines in particular, as well as being contrsry to the truth about the holy spirit which most Christians are ignorant of.

Accusing someone of being seed of the serpent and not being saved and destined to hell is a serious charge not to be done without serious and credible evidence, as how you judge you will be judged thereby. 

The scriptures by John declares the test of who is an antichrist, which test JohnB failed without valid excuse previously and again now. As what Christian would deny that Jesus came in the flesh and he is the Son of God? Neither of you confess that?

Furthermore, you are both ignorant of Paul’s gospel which was hidden in God since the foundation of the world, but revealed by Jesus to Paul by revelation, and is called musterion in Greek which means sacred or divine secret (Strong’s # 3466). It is transliterated mystery which is not a translation but is bringing word from one language into another language. 

Romans 16:25; “Now to him that is of power to stablish youaccording to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen.. ,”

Paul according to his Gospel, ACCORDING TO THE COMMANDMENT OF THE EVERLASTING GOD, for the obedience of faith.

YOU ARE IGNORANT OF THESE COMMANDMENTS REFERRED TO BY PAUL. THE SACRED SECRETS IS NOT GNOSTICISM UNLESS YOU ACCUSE BOTH PAUL AS WELL AS  I OF BEING GNOSTICS, FOR I HAVE SPECIALIZED IN THE SACRED SECRETS WHICH INCLUDES MANY SUBJECTS INCLUDING THE HOLY SPIRIT AND ITS MANIFESTATIONS WHICH YOU TOTALLY ARE IGNORANT OF.

YOU BOTH SPEAK NOT BY KNOWLEDGE OR AUTHORITY, BUT BY IGNORANCE, BIAS AND IN HATRED AND FAILURE TO RECOGNIZE THE SPIRITUAL BODY OF CHRIST AND NOT WALKING BY THE SPIRIT IN LOVE, TRUTH AND HOLDING THE SACRED SECRETS WHICH PAUL SAYS WE ARE TO BE STEWARDS OF AND FELLOWSHIP OF THE SACRED SECRETS. YOU FAIL THERE ALSO AND SPEAK FOOLISHLY ABOUT WHAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND.

IF YOU CONTINUE TO ATTACK ME, I SHALL REMIND EVERYONE WHAT JOHN SAYS ABOUT YOU WHO REFUSE TO CONFESS THAT JESUS CAME IN THE FLESH AND IS THE SON OF GOD. YOU CANNOT ADMIT THAT, THEREFORE YOU HAVE THE SPIRIT OF ANTICHRIST ACCORDING TO THE APOSTLE JOHN. WILL YOU ACCUSE HIM OF BEING WRONG AND GNOSTIC ALSO?

I John 4:1: “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby† know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the fles his of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.”

BOTH YOU JOHNB AND ELIJAH HAVE REFUSED TO CONFESS THAT JESUS CHRIST CAME IN THE FLESH AND THAT HE IS THE SON OF GOD. THEREFORE YOU ARE ANTICHRISTS ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE AND LET ALL KNOW HERE AND NOW THIS IS THE TRUTH ABOUT YOU ACCUSERS, UNLESS YOU CONFESS?

I confess Jesus Christ came in the flesh, what about you?

The scriptures declare you are both antichrists by your silence.

The Antichrist is the one who thinks the mark is a computer chip only the demon-possessed would come with that kind of bible study. We are not answerable to you an unbalanced demon-possessed Idiot. The spirit of self-aggrandizement is the spirit of Satan.

 

James, you need to meet Jesus.

If you truly knew Him you would reflect Him.

John 13:35 "By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another."

If you truly loved Him you would obey Him rather than use bullying tactics to try and hide your own wrongdoing instead.

John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

Instead you lie about your beliefs and try to persuade God's people to follow another gospel. There are no secret teachings, the true gospel is open to all.

Your gnostic teachings have nothing to do with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It is not me you need to fear but the judgement to come.

You have already exposed yourself on countless occasions. How can we trust one word that you say - particularly when you have been proven to be wrong on so many occasions. By what right do you, a self-confessed liar, presume to judge others? It is purely down to your inability to face up to the truth of your own actions, that you lie with every post, claiming to uphold the beliefs and teachings of the SDA Church whilst writing against them. Your hypocrisy is your own undoing. You presume to test others whilst reflecting nothing of the Saviour.

Rather than repent of your evil ways you declare openly that you will attack others if they expose your deceitfulness. But the scriptures expose you.

1 John 2:4 "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

You try and claim that I attack you but I have spoken the truth plainly and well you know it. You lied to gain access to this site and you continue to lie with every single post. When it is pointed out you attack those who have exposed you. You refuse to abide by the rules that you pledge to keep and then claim that God wants you to lie.

Galatians 6:7 "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

Until you repent and fall broken at the foot of the cross you will continue to behave like a bully and like a spoilt child. You threats and bluster betray the spirit that controls you, the spirit that bids you lie and attack others.

Luke 9:55-56 "...Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them."

Matthew 7:15-20 "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

Stop trying to put the blame onto others but instead be a man and give an honest account. Repent, James, and be broken on the Rock Jesus Christ before it is too late.

What message does your Big Brother all seeing eye image give out?

You are without excuse having been told that image carries sigil magic that carries demons as it is the Luciferian symbol of Lucifer, the illuminati and the Masonic lodges and of the great rebellion conspiracy against God and all that is good.

What Christian would knowingly display such, as well as refuse to confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh and is the Son of God?

So you spread demons potentially to everyone here. Others have agreed and say the image gives them the willies (uncomfortable feeling of evil presence).

All indications point to the spirit of Antichrist according to the Apostle John and all the above. You have not followed the nature of one born again of the spirit, which avoids such symbolism which mocks God and Jesus and glorifies Evil with pride and arrogence. Probably 98% of people here have never discerned spirits which is Revelation by the spirit of the presence of spirits and whether they be of God or the Devil.

You don’t have any guilt or shame, but defiantly hold onto this wicked symbol without explanation or reason. Only a proud wicked person would do so. I called you out for what you are. You stand out like a sore thumb spiritually for those walking by the spirit, which most do not have a clue.

So what did you achieve by this post, James, all I can see is a pathetic man trying to justify his own demonic affiliations, pretending that you are walking in the spirit, while this post proves you are walking in Satans footsteps. The spirit of self-aggrandizement is the spirit of Satan. 

James do you really think that focussing on me excuses your sin? You still have this bizarre idea that someone else's sin excuses your own. It doesn't. What if I am the biggest sinner that ever lived, do you think that will excuse the smallest of your sins?

Your soul's salvation continues to be at risk and by ignoring your own wilful breaking of God's commandments you risk unpardonable sin and eternal damnation.

Stop concentrating on me or Elijah as some sort of justification and repent. Jesus loves you, even in your sinful state, but He still wants you to be broken on the Rock and repent. Without repentance you cannot be saved. Why will you be lost for the sake of your pride? Heaven was obtained for you at a great price can you not sacrifice your ego for the sake of your salvation? 

Lying lips are an abomination no matter what other sins you may accuse others of. It is so sad to see you so thoroughly misunderstand the gospel message whilst wallowing in your own pride and vanity.

Turn and repent whilst there is still time and pray that God does not require your soul whilst you remain in this sinful state.

Peace 

  Gene wrote: "Hi Reasoning (lost my place)


I know this is a lot, but I’m trying to explain what you’re not understanding.
Jesus and the Father is One, they have an eternal relationship. The Father’s house is heaven, Jesus said he was going there;

The word of God speaks to that.
Moffatt New Testament (Acts 3:21)
who must be kept in heaven till the period of the great Restoration. Ages ago God spoke of this by the lips of his holy prophets;

Gene wrote: "Another bible calls it “the time for the universal reformation”.
He will forever be coupled and synced to the Father and to the Father’s house, but the work the Father has ordained for the Messiah to accomplish during the period of the 1000 years will not be in the Father’s house; it will not be in the heavens of heaven, there’s no universal reformation which must take place there."



Gene wrote: "The kingdom that Jesus will rule over for a thousand years is not the Father’s house in the heaven of heavens, but it will be kingdom that was bestowed upon Jesus; the kingdom of this world.
The seventh angel then blew [his] trumpet, and there were mighty voices in heaven, shouting, The dominion (kingdom, sovereignty, rule) of the world has now come into the possession and become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ (the Messiah), and He shall reign forever and ever (for the eternities of the eternities)!
The kingdom of this world is now ruled by the god of this world, everything we know is a mixture of good and evil.
So, when Jesus said, “that you may be where I am”, we must understand where Jesus will be during that time.
Amplified 1 Corinthians 15: 24-28
After that comes the end (the completion), when He delivers over the kingdom to God the Father after rendering inoperative and abolishing every [other] rule and every authority and power.
For [Christ] must be King and reign until He has put all [His] enemies under His feet.
For He [the Father] has put all things in subjection under His [Christ's] feet. But when it says, All things are put in subjection [under Him], it is evident that He [Himself] is excepted Who does the subjecting of all things to Him.
However, when everything is subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will also subject Himself to [the Father] Who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all [be everything to everyone, supreme, the indwelling and controlling factor of life]."

  Right, you believe when Jesus said He's going to the Father's House to prepare a place for the saints, a dwelling place, you believe that is figurative. That's Jesus and the saints are literally going to be on earth, and figuratively be in the Father's House. But what you fail to understand is that Jesus literally went to the Father's House, there are literal dwelling places/ mansions in the Father's House. The righteous saints literally take flight into the air, not one righteous Saint will have their glorified bodies feet on the ground. They literally go to the Father's House in Heaven to dwell in the dwelling places prepared for the saints. 

 Why doesn't your theory work? Because the earth will be desolate by the brightness of Jesus coming.

Jer. 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

Gene wrote: "Maybe you can’t comprehend the devastation to the planet and to human life a nuclear war would cause. Jeremiah sees devastation and desolation on the earth."


Gene wrote:: "Jeremiah [sees] all the cities thereof were broken down. (New York, Washington DC, Paris, London, Jerusalem)." (Brackets are mine)


Gene, you agree Jeremiah sees the whole earth, and the whole earth and Jerusalem will be desolate, that means there is no life, no humans... Where are the billions/nations of "deceived" people if the whole land (earth) is desolate?

There are only two categories of people unrighteous and righteous, righteous takes flight in the air, the unrighteous stays on the earth and burn.Unfortunately you believe and teach ALL will not hear the Gospel, because you (and the WWCOG folks) believe they will be some who are deceived from hearing and understanding the Gospel.

First, every human will definitely hear the Gospel during the time of the Loud Cry, before the end comes... 

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Matt. 24-14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Second, when Jesus comes in the clouds when all eyes can see Him, the deceived are considered unrighteous 


1 Cor. 6:9. Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


Gene wrote : "The wicked will not stand in the judgment; but everyone is not wicked, some people are deceived. There are untold billions who have lived and died and have never heard of Jesus, there are billions of people who live on the planet now that don’t know Jesus; when will they be judged and how will they be judged?"


  I heard a brother from the WWCOG on the Word network teach the same thing you teach Gene... I think he was from the tomorrow's world group. But it's false.
After a person hears the Gospel in the end times, a choice needs to be made. If a person hears the Gospel but choose not to follow because they we're decieved, then they are in the same category as the fornicators, idolaters, adulteres, etc.. they are all unrighteous! 

  The Kingdom will be during the Loud Cry!!!  It's amazing, you don't even acknowledge this time when I bring it up.... It's like you have horse blinders on, there is other scripture you have to consider, you just can't look over it... The time of the outpouring of the Latter rain is also the time of the Loud Cry, the time of a great and final ingathering that's to take place. GOD'S people will be giving the final call. Great day for the people of GOD, and dreadful day for the unrighteous. 

  Hey, once again, we have to agree to disagree. This is Biblical teaching Gene, unfortunately you have a different view that is false. SDA don't believe what the WWCOG teaches, why? Because even though the verses you use are true, you put them in the wrong time line... and in turn has you teaching a second chance theology. Jesus and Bible teaches now is the time to get right with GOD, before the 1000 years. 

Blessings to you and your family ! 

Great post Reasoning I would just like to add this passage from the book of Romans where it says everyone will know and therefore there can be no "Deceived" 

Rom 1:18  For the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 
Rom 1:19  because the thing which may be known of God is clearly revealed within them, for God revealed it to them. 
Rom 1:20  For the unseen things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being realized by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, for them to be without excuse.

(MKJV)

A. They knew God (Rom_1:18-20).
God had given them a twofold revelation of Himself “in them” (conscience) and “unto them” (creation), Rom_1:19. Man did not begin with ignorance and gradually work his way up to intelligence; he began with a blazing revelation of the power and wisdom of God and turned his back on it. God had revealed Himself from the very time of creation, so that people who have never heard the Gospel are still without excuse. 
Vain thinking and foolish reasoning turned men from the truth to lies. We see indifference leading to ingratitude, resulting in ignorance. People today bow before the Greek and Roman philosophers and honor their words above the Word of God; but Paul calls all of these philosophies “empty imaginations” and “times of ignorance” (Act_17:30)! The next step was idolatry, honoring the creature (including man) rather than the Creator.

People replaced God’s truth with Satan’s lie! What is Satan’s lie? Worshiping the creature and not the Creator; worshiping man instead of God; worshiping things instead of Christ. Satan tempted Christ to do this (Mat_4:8-11). Note that in Rom_1:18, the Gentiles “held down the truth,” and now they “exchange the truth” for a lie! The truth believed and obeyed sets us free (Joh_8:31-32); the truth rejected and disobeyed makes us slaves.

Reasoning said

"Gene, you agree Jeremiah sees the whole earth, and the whole earth and Jerusalem will be desolate, that means there is no life, no humans... Where are the billions/nations of "deceived" people if the whole land (earth) is desolate?"

But Jeremiah is not speaking of the desolation of the planet earth; he was speaking of the land in which he is prophesying about; some bible makes this point.

Youngs Literal Translation:

I looked to the land, and lo, waste and void, And unto the heavens, and their light is not.

In this chapter, the words land and earth are interchangeable. He says Blow yea the trumpet in the land, but what land? Then he sees that land i.e. the earth in disarray, desolated due to the nuclear calamity that is going to occur in it. This occurrence will also have a devastating impact the planet’s heavenly bodies.

God tells us what this will be like,

Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, you men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

 Of course, this is something EGW could not have envision in her day, she only saw “balls of fire”.

The book of Isaiah speaks the same language; for example, Isaiah 9:18

"For wickedness has burned like a blaze that consumes briers and thorns; it sets thickets of the forest on fire, and skyward they swirl in a column of smoke.

Jeremiah says,

I beheld the earth, and lo, it was waste and empty; and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and lo, they trembled, and all the hills shook violently.

The earth (land) was wasted, desolated. The heavens had no light due to the nuclear winter cause by the nuclear war.

Verse 27 completes this chapter by saying

(Amplified) For thus says the Lord: The whole land will be a desolation, yet I will not make a full and complete end of it.

The prophet Isaiah (24:6) says it another way.

Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell in it are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

God is not going to make a full end, but there will be desolation and devastation cause by this nuclear war, and few men are left.

Jesus describe this by saying,

If those days are not cut short no one would live, but because of the chosen ones, those days will be cut short.

Peace 

  Gene wrote: "But Jeremiah is not speaking of the desolation of the planet earth; he was speaking of the land in which he is prophesying about; some bible makes this point."

  

 

Brother Gene, I think brother JohnB explained it way better than me... 

But I will respond to your untruths, you said Jeremiah is not speaking of the desolation of the plant earth, really? Well, let's read it again, and see what the Bible says.. 

Jer. 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

 Your telling me Jeremiah didn't behold or see the earth?

 it didn't say a specific location on earth, just earth... he saw that the whole land (earth), he saw "all the cities.." will be desolate. I'm assuming we have the same definition of desolate right? That meaning is that there is no life! 

 

 Again, you believe Jeremiah sees the whole earth, and not just one particular location 

Gene wrote:: "Jeremiah [sees] all the cities thereof were broken down. (New York, Washington DC, Paris, London, Jerusalem)." (Brackets are mine)

Gene wrote: " In this chapter, the words land and earth are interchangeable. He says Blow yea the trumpet in the land, but what land? Then he sees that land i.e. the earth in disarray, desolated due to the nuclear calamity that is going to occur in it. This occurrence will also have a devastating impact the planet’s heavenly bodies."

    Again, JohnB's response is on point, I would first refer you to what he wrote. 

 

 I'm assuming our definition of desolate is the same, no life, right?..... and even though I believe the presence of the Lord is just that, and not symbolic of "nuclear calamity", it's the time when all eyes can see Jesus coming in the clouds... However, we do agree there will be desolation (no life). 

Gene wrote: "Then he sees that land i.e. the earth in disarray, desolated due to the nuclear calamity that is going to occur in it."

 If you believe Jeremiah sees Jerusalem as one of the cities that's been stuck with nuclear calamity, and is desolate (no life), then where are the billions of decieved people going to be? 

 

Blessings! 

  

You and Elijah have brought up the WWCOG several times, but let leave that aside and look at the bible.

JohnB said,

Satan will be left bound on this earth with no-one to tempt as the earth will be laid desolate by Christ's return…

This is not biblically true? John12:31 Jesus says

Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.

Jesus was a prophet, and this is a prophecy which is fulfilled in Rev. 20

1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed;

Here we see Satan is overpowered, seize, apprehended; in other words, Satan is arrested. He is bound, not by any chain of circumstances, but by chain of restriction. He will no longer roam around like a roaring lion, looking for someone to devour.

Job 1:7

"Where have you come from?" said the LORD to Satan. "From roaming through the earth," he replied, "and walking back and forth in it."

Verse 3 says,

 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer…

He is casted out of the earthly sphere into an abyss or bottomless pit. In the cosmos, a blackhole is a bottomless pit.  He is now unable to deceive the nations who are on earth until the end of the thousand years.

Ps. 67:4 says,

O let the nations be glad and sing for joy; for You shall judge the peoples righteously and govern the nations on earth.

Nations are on earth where they are meant to be, the earth is not left desolated for 1000 years, and Satan has been casted outside the earthly realm.

Gene, there is no deceived see Reasoning's and my post just above.

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