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..or those who question why God doesn't save everyone.

The wrong premise that comes with Universalism, is that the wicked will die is not true because it would then be a limitation in God, it holds that if all are not saved, it limits God and His ability to heal all sin. It really is failure on their part to realize that God cannot create character. God can create sinless beings, but the character must be developed by the freewill choices of the person. While God does possess the power to overwrite the individuality of a person and instill His perfection without their consent, to do so would destroy that person and create a basically a robot, where that person used to be. This action would violate God’s own character of love, which never compels, never coerces, and never forces. Love only exists in an atmosphere of freedom. So the Universalist idea, that God’s love will one day be so compelling that all will be overwhelmed and become godly, actually presents a God who is not love, but rather a dictator who forces everyone to be like Him. Genuine love, as painful as it is, allows the rejection of love.

The next idea that is problem in Universalism, is that forgiveness solves the sin problem. If sin is the breaking of rules and requires punishment, but Jesus paid the punishment, then wouldn’t God forgive everyone? And if God forgives everyone, won’t all be saved?

The argument is that there is no limit to God’s forgiveness; therefore, all are forgiven and so all will be saved. While it is true that God’s forgiveness is limitless and that He forgives everyone, forgiveness does not equal salvation.  For Universalists, if a person is pardoned, he or she is freed from the punishment of the law and since God forgives everyone, then everyone must be saved. But the reality we find is that while you can forgive a person for overdosing on drugs, the forgiveness doesn’t prevent the damage done and the user still dies.

Jesus forgave those who crucified Him, but the evidence shows that many were not changed by that forgiveness. They remained selfish, and full of iniquity and within their hearts still hated truth and love. Thus, if God would take them to heaven anyway, it would be a place of torture to them, as they by their choices, have rejected love and truth and developed selfish characters that will not find God’s unveiled infinite love and truth enjoyable, they rather flee from God, begging to have the mountains crush them to hide them from Him.

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Peace 

 Brother Gene, "once saved always saved" does make sense, but it has to be viewed in its proper context, Yes, once a person accepts Jesus Christ as their Savior, as The Lamb of GOD to take away the sins of the world, then that person is washed of their sins right then and there. Period! 


  Now, only a few can go cold turkey, do a 180 & stop sinning.... That's why there is a sanctification process, but make no mistake, we must get sin out of our lives. As I write, I'm writing to myself, this is not a game. 


 We can see from the Bible, when a Christian finds out that Jesus hasn't accepted him, and asked, have I not preach and prophecie in your Name, and Jesus says I knew you not. 

 So when we say "once saved always saved", it doesn't mean that's a license to sin because Jesus' blood washes away our sin. We ought to stand fast in His ways, live a life like Jesus.. He set the standard and example of how we should live a life without sin.

 

 Of course when Jesus comes in the clouds and all eyes can see Him, it's either your on Jesus' side or on the side of Satan. If your deceive at that time, then you are considered to be among the wicked. Only two categories brother Gene, righteous & wicked.

blessings! 

Two ways one for life and the other one is to destruction.

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that  leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and  difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."

Here we can see Gene that the doctrine of  once saved  always saved is a lei!   Their is two way one that bring salvation and the other way led to destruction.

Read 1Corinthians 6:9-11

Jesus was very clear wen He say Not every one (Christian) that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;  but he that doeth the will (keep the commandment of God) of my Father which is in heaven."  Matthew 10:22

And in Luke 9:62 Jesus said "unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough (the everlasting gospel/ the gospel of the kingdom) and looking back, is not fit for the kingdom of God."

Once saved always saved is fiction. 

Very true Benecio, sadly Gene is of the opinion that no one can be lost and now and again over the years I have been on this site he comes out with this second chance gospel. As you and I know it does not square up with what the Bible does say. Maybe he can find one text in isolation that supports his second chance gospel, but that is not how we should divide the Bible every word of God is the truth. 

 

What about those who are not Christians, those who never got a chance to be a Christian or those who died long before Jesus came and those before Jesus died for the sins of the world?  Truth is, salvation is a process. God has a plan that will include everyone who have every lived.  The question is, how will God bring about salvation for everyone?

Now, everyone is not destined to be saved, the bible says this in Revelation 17

…The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast…

It seems that the book of life has already been completed, there are names that are not in it. But there are also name that are in it and will be know at the great white throne judgment.

11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. … 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Now, we know that this takes place after the 1000-year reign of Christ on the earth. So, we know that those of the first resurrection are saved because the reign with Christ on earth. There will also be some saved during the 1000-year reign. Only those who have knowingly rejected salvation will not be saved.

People have to be taught and given knowledge of salvation; this is what the 1000 year reign is all about.

Isaiah 41:19 I will plant cedars in the desert, acacias, myrtles, and olive trees. I will set evergreens in the desert, elms and cypress trees together, 20so that all may see and know, may consider and understand, that the hand of the LORD has done this, the Holy One of Israel has created it.

Yes, Gene here we go again, the Bible is clear you need to accept Christ nothing else will suffice. And really those who have not heard about Christ well that is not our problem is it? Besides you got it wrong with Crist reign on earth in the Millenium we are all in heaven going over the books. 

Peace 

Gene wrote: "People have to be taught and given knowledge of salvation; this is what the 1000 year reign is all about."

 Brother Gene, anymore time given by GOD is a blessing indeed... but a 1000 years here on earth is not happening. Again, the Biblical SDA teaching doesn't teach that. This is SDA 101A. But of course you adhere to the teachings of Herbert Armstrong and WWCOG. 

 When Jesus comes in the clouds when all eyes can see Him, the righteous takes flight in the air... There is no righteous person standing on the planet earth. They are taking flight because they are going somewhere bro... They are going where the mansions are that Jesus went to prepare for His righteous saints. Then of course after the 1000 years the Holy City where the righteous saints has been living for a 1000 years comes back to the plant earth. 

 Come back to Biblical SDA teaching brother Gene.... Not saying all of what the WWCOG teaches is wrong, I agree with the teachings like the yearly Holy Convocations. But this teaching of being on earth during the 1000 years is false. 

Gene wrote: "What about those who are not Christians, those who never got a chance to be a Christian or those who died long before Jesus came and those before Jesus died for the sins of the world? Truth is, salvation is a process. God has a plan that will include everyone who have every lived. The question is, how will God bring about salvation for everyone?"

  Good question... For those who never got a chance to know Jesus, I know EGW wrote in regards to slaves in this country that never got a chance to hear about Jesus because of their oppression and died that way, she said they will be as if they never were here. They don't rise in the 1st resurrection or the second.  To be honest it's a tuff pill to swallow, and I'm still pondering what she said, but I'll lean towards and trust her counsel because I believe it's inspired by the Holy Spirit.

 Now, for the people living the time of the Loud Cry, the great ingathering of Zech.14, they will have an opportunity to hear the Gospel. All nations and people will know about the Gospel and have an opportunity to have everlasting life and reign with Jesus in Heaven for a 1000 years, then come back to earth that eventually will be made new. 

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.


Matt. 24-14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

  The Loud Cry will ensure that the Gospel has been preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations. It will go into every nook and cranny 

 Unfortunately you believe  and teach ALL will not hear the Gospel, because you (and the WWCO folks) believe they will be deceived from hearing and understanding the Gospel.

1 Cor. 6:9. Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Gene wrote : "The wicked will not stand in the judgment; but everyone is not wicked, some people are deceived. There are untold billions who have lived and died and have never heard of Jesus, there are billions of people who live on the planet now that don’t know Jesus; when will they be judged and how will they be judged?"

 I heard a brother from the WWCOG on the Word network teach the same thing you teach Gene... I think he was from th tomorrow's world group. But it's false.

 After a person hears the Gospel in the end times, a choice needs to be made. If a person hears the Gospel but choose not to follow because they we're decieved, then they are in the same category as the fornicators, idolaters, adulteres, etc.. they are all unrighteous! 

Blessings! 

look guys Gene is not a SDA. He have a totally different doctrine then us. Gene believe in those generic gospel. Let we go icy on him. But I know that he have a agenda, but still.

He now the truth and it's for him now to choose.   

Generic gospel??? Actually, I lend toward the gospel of Christ; the one Jesus preached.

And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.

Which also was the same gospel the apostle Paul advocated

30 And Paulus himself lived in his own hired house and was in it for two years; and he was receiving there all of those who were coming to him. 31And he was preaching about The Kingdom of God, and teaching publicly about Our Lord Yeshua The Messiah without hindrance.

Now, you may want to know what is this good news about the kingdom of God. Jesus told his disciple;

1 It was that when he was praying in a certain place, when he finished, one of his disciples said to him, "Our Lord*, teach us to pray, just as Yohannan also taught his disciples." 2Yeshua said to them, "When you pray, you shall say thus: 'Our Father, who are in Heaven, 'Hallowed be your name, let your Kingdom come, let your will be done also in the earth as it is in Heaven.'

This is the good news; the kingdom of God is coming to earth; the will of God will be done in the earth as it is in Heaven.

When the seventh angel blew his trumpet, there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The world's kingdom has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will rule forever and ever."

So, which gospel to you ascribe to?

Yes Reasoning,

People have to be taught and given knowledge of salvation; this is what the 1000-year reign is all about.

1In the last days the mountain of the house of the LORD will be established as the chief of the mountains; it will be raised above the hills, and the peoples will stream to it. 2And many nations will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob. He will teach us His ways, so that we may walk in His paths.”

When Jesus returns, a global reeducation project will be introduced. With Satan sealed there will be no more deception people will come to know the truth.

Hebrews 8:11 No longer will each one teach his neighbor or his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' because they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest.

True salvation requires true knowledge; this is the secrete of the 1000-years, it is the time when true knowledge will be open to the whole world.

Psalm 22:27 All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD. All the families of the nations will bow down before Him.

Habakkuk 2:14 For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD as the waters cover the sea.

Peace 

 

 Gene wrote: "Yes Reasoning, People have to be taught and given knowledge of salvation; this is what the 1000-year reign is all about."


1In the last days the mountain of the house of the LORD will be established as the chief of the mountains; it will be raised above the hills, and the peoples will stream to it. 2And many nations will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob. He will teach us His ways, so that we may walk in His paths.”


Gene wrote: "When Jesus returns, a global reeducation project will be introduced. With Satan sealed there will be no more deception people will come to know the truth.


Hebrews 8:11 No longer will each one teach his neighbor or his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' because they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest.


Gene wrote: "True salvation requires true knowledge; this is the secrete of the 1000-years, it is the time when true knowledge will be open to the whole world."

                                           -------------------------------

 Brother Gene, you bring up some good points, but it's not in regards to there being human life on earth during the 1000 years, I'll try to show a clearer picture from the Bible on that.

 The good points you bring up is that there is a time when Jesus our King will rule the earth, a time when there is a great final ingathering (Zech.14), this time is also the time of the Loud Cry, the time the Latter Rain is given. Can we agree this takes place on this side of the 1000 years? 

 

 I know brother Jason and Benico are going to pounce on me, but this is a teaching of the Shepherd rod/Davidians.... Well, the Kingdom rule part of it, The only difference is that most Davidians don't believe it's Jesus that will be David the King ruling. Most of them teach it's someone other than Jesus. 

 The SOP teaching in regards to the prophecies of David the King teaches David is Jesus. However, many SDA teach that this Kingdom rule is only after the 1000 years. But the scriptures you bring forth shows there is a time that Jesus will rule as King on this side of the 1000 years as well. So you have some things correct, it's just that your timing is off. 

 

 Ok brother, let's see if it can be explained clearer for you... I'm sure you read in Revelations about the 7 last plagues, the earth is going to take a pounding. Then when Jesus comes and every eye can see Him, if your not in the air taking flight to go to the mansions that Jesus went to prepare, then your on earth with all the other wicked unrighteous people, and will burn by the brightness of Jesus' coming.

 Jeremiah saw this,

Jer. 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger.

27 For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

 This is Biblical teaching Gene, unfortunately you have a different view that is false.


Gene wrote: "Maybe you can’t comprehend the devastation to the planet and to human life a nuclear war would cause. Jeremiah sees devastation and desolation on the earth."

   


Gene wrote:: "Jeremiah [sees] all the cities thereof were broken down. (New York, Washington DC, Paris, London, Jerusalem)." (Brackets are mine)

 Gene, you agree Jeremiah sees  the whole earth, and the whole earth and Jerusalem will be desolate, that means there is no life, no humans... Where are the billions/nations of "deceived" people if the whole land (earth) is desolate?


  Blessings! :)

Reasoning,

The 1000 years reign (rule) of Christ will be period of judgment. As Adventist we are taught this will be in heaven during a process of going over the books. Psalm 96:13 says,

…for he cometh to judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with his truth.

Another Psalm 67:4 says this

Let the nations be glad and sing for joy, for You judge the peoples justly and lead the nations of the earth. Selah

Revelation 19:11 says

…And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon it was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he does judge and make war…..

The word judge is shaphat: to judge, govern.

Now that Satan is removed, Christ will govern the earth, the world and the people in righteousness.

You judge the peoples justly and lead the nations of the earth.

And when it is said in Revelation 5:10  “And have made us to our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.” It is because Christ will be on earth and not in heaven.

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