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..or those who question why God doesn't save everyone.

The wrong premise that comes with Universalism, is that the wicked will die is not true because it would then be a limitation in God, it holds that if all are not saved, it limits God and His ability to heal all sin. It really is failure on their part to realize that God cannot create character. God can create sinless beings, but the character must be developed by the freewill choices of the person. While God does possess the power to overwrite the individuality of a person and instill His perfection without their consent, to do so would destroy that person and create a basically a robot, where that person used to be. This action would violate God’s own character of love, which never compels, never coerces, and never forces. Love only exists in an atmosphere of freedom. So the Universalist idea, that God’s love will one day be so compelling that all will be overwhelmed and become godly, actually presents a God who is not love, but rather a dictator who forces everyone to be like Him. Genuine love, as painful as it is, allows the rejection of love.

The next idea that is problem in Universalism, is that forgiveness solves the sin problem. If sin is the breaking of rules and requires punishment, but Jesus paid the punishment, then wouldn’t God forgive everyone? And if God forgives everyone, won’t all be saved?

The argument is that there is no limit to God’s forgiveness; therefore, all are forgiven and so all will be saved. While it is true that God’s forgiveness is limitless and that He forgives everyone, forgiveness does not equal salvation.  For Universalists, if a person is pardoned, he or she is freed from the punishment of the law and since God forgives everyone, then everyone must be saved. But the reality we find is that while you can forgive a person for overdosing on drugs, the forgiveness doesn’t prevent the damage done and the user still dies.

Jesus forgave those who crucified Him, but the evidence shows that many were not changed by that forgiveness. They remained selfish, and full of iniquity and within their hearts still hated truth and love. Thus, if God would take them to heaven anyway, it would be a place of torture to them, as they by their choices, have rejected love and truth and developed selfish characters that will not find God’s unveiled infinite love and truth enjoyable, they rather flee from God, begging to have the mountains crush them to hide them from Him.

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Gene wrote: "You just as many have concluded that the saints go to heaven, but is that what Jesus said?"

Yes, that is Biblical teaching brother Gene... You seem to agree..

Gene wrote: "Yes, we agree that Jesus went heaven to prepare a place, and the saints of God who reign with Christ will be in heaven as Christ, they will be ruling with Christ as spirit beings, but Christ will be ruling the nation of earth. This may be a difficult concept for you to understand."


Permit me to Inject an excerpt from Revelation 20. It suggest that God's people are on the Earth. Is it a recreated planet Earth or a new Earth?

4Then I saw thrones, and the people sitting on them had been given the authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony about Jesus and for proclaiming the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his statue, nor accepted his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They all came to life again, and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.) 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him a thousand years.

The Defeat of Satan

7When the thousand years come to an end, Satan will be let out of his prison. 8He will go out to deceive the nations—called Gog and Magog—in every corner of the earth. He will gather them together for battle—a mighty army, as numberless as sand along the seashore. 9And I saw them as they went up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded God’s people and the beloved city. But fire from heaven came down on the attacking armies and consumed them.

10Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of burning sulfur, joining the beast and the false prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Gene as a politician you would make a great one, but biblical teachings are not about politics, it's about truth and rightly divide the text. What you are doing is taking texts out of context. I have told you before "A text taken out of context is a Pretext". 


So, explain to me how this is taken out of context.

Jesus says in Luke 20:35

35But those who are considered worthy to share in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead …. they are sons of the resurrection, they are sons of God.…

I’m merely showing you the the responsibilities of those who will be resurrected. The fact that the creation awaits this moment should be mind blowing; we should be in awe.

Yes, Gene, we are all awaiting the resurrection, and that was not what I was complaining about. You consistently put together passages to prove that Jesus will reign here on earth in the 1000 years, those verses taken out like that are not in harmony with some other texts in the Bible. 

Gene; you have a better understanding of God's heart and of the mellenium then the standard SDA line of doctrine regarding them. One must study the Word for themselves. You also come across in a more respectful and loving manner.

Some SDA are very kind while certain others make rash judgments about doctrines and people. Some individuals excuse themselves for any kind of wicked statements without justification and refuse sound doctrine, Greek word meanings, context and plain old logical thinking and common sense.

Many know nothing of Idioms, figures of speech, biblical customs or principles of Bible research, nor of administrations and to whom a book is addressed (written to). Many do not have the intellectual capacity of understanding the more difficult and complicated issues. Some are just Neanderthals, who cannot and will not understand.

They will believe in their church doctrine without real investigation. Keep up the good work. Failure to walk by the spirit is one of the biggest mistakes.

James Said: 

"sound doctrine, Greek word meanings, context and plain old logical thinking and common sense.

Many know nothing of Idioms, figures of speech, biblical customs or principles of Bible research, nor of administrations and to whom a book is addressed (written to). Many do not have the intellectual capacity of understanding the more difficult and complicated issues. Some are just Neanderthals, who cannot and will not understand."

Yeah right, and you come up with a computer chip as the mark of the beast. While the knuckle draggers do use the Bible for study and do not draw foolish conclusions, like the self-appointed master bible student you think you are. The spirit of self-aggrandizement is the spirit of Satan. 

Good to hear from you Garth. Yes, that is what it says and it seems to me that Gene prefers to ignore this text.  

Elijah, do you read the bible.

[In Revelation chapter 4 we are given a look into the very throne room in heaven.  As we are presented with the scene, we are pointed to those around the throne.]

4Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and on these thrones sat twenty-four elders dressed in white, with golden crowns on their heads.

[We are also shown other living creatures, and we are told;]

(9) And whenever the living creatures give glory, honor, and thanks to the One seated on the throne who lives forever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before the One seated on the throne, and they worship Him who lives forever and ever. They cast their crowns before the throne, saying:

11“You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for You created all things; by Your will they exist, and came to be.”

[This throne room scene continues into chapter 5 where in verse 8 we are told this:]

8 When He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp, and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9And they sang a new song:

[I’m sure we can agree that this vision and the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders are in the heavens of heaven where the Father is.]

9And they sang a new song:

“Worthy are You to take the scroll and open its seals, because You were slain, and by Your blood You purchased for God those from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. 10 You have made them into a kingdom, priests to serve our God, and they will reign upon the earth.”

and they will reign upon the earth.

[Now, I don’t say this, the bible says it. I don’t have any preconceived opinions, but it seems there are preconceived opinions here.]

Now, it says,

… you (Jesus) have made them into a kingdom, priests to serve our God, and they will reign upon the earth.”

[Question, when will they reign on earth, and when will they be a kingdom of priests?]

And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

[Those who came to life or were resurrected will reigned with Christ for a thousand years. When will they reign?]

6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

[So, it should be opinionated, as it is clearly shared by those who are in heaven. The ones who will be priest of God and Christ will reign with Christ, and they will reign on earth for a thousand years.]   

Why dose God need a kingdom of priest in heaven?

Did is what we call generic gospel Gene. Take the Scripture out of context to suit your opinion.


Maybe it’s your understanding or misunderstanding that is out of context; the bible speaks for itself.  What you call generic, the bible calls the revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave him.. Speaking of Jesus, in Acts 3:21 the bible says

Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

What did the holy prophets say?  David says,

Psalm 96:10

Declare among the nations: “The LORD reigns!” The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved; He will judge the peoples with equity.

Psalm 98:9

… for He comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world with righteousness, and the peoples with equity.

As you see, this will be a period of judgement. Does the Lord reign now? Of course not.

Revelation 11: 15 gives us the time;

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdom {kingdoms} of this world is {are} become the kingdom {kingdoms} of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign forever and ever.

So, as you see, it all related to “this world”.  Something is going on that you don’t understand.

EGW even seem to be a bit confused, she says,

“Those whom Christ raises in the first resurrection will reign with Him for a thousand years (Rev. 20:4). But in what sense can the saints be said to reign if they are in heaven and all the wicked are dead? Their reign will consist of involvement in an important phase of Christ's governing.”

But what does that mean? She says this.

The millennial judgment does not decide who is to be saved or lost. God makes that decision before the Second Advent; all those who were not either resurrected or translated then are forever lost. (so much for salvation) The judgment in which the righteous participate serves the purpose of answering any questions the righteous may have as to why the wicked are lost. God wants those to whom He has given eternal life to have full confidence in His leadership, so He will reveal to them the operations of His mercy and justice.

Now, you have to admit, this doesn’t all make sense.

Gene, Again you are taking this out of context.


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