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..or those who question why God doesn't save everyone.

The wrong premise that comes with Universalism, is that the wicked will die is not true because it would then be a limitation in God, it holds that if all are not saved, it limits God and His ability to heal all sin. It really is failure on their part to realize that God cannot create character. God can create sinless beings, but the character must be developed by the freewill choices of the person. While God does possess the power to overwrite the individuality of a person and instill His perfection without their consent, to do so would destroy that person and create a basically a robot, where that person used to be. This action would violate God’s own character of love, which never compels, never coerces, and never forces. Love only exists in an atmosphere of freedom. So the Universalist idea, that God’s love will one day be so compelling that all will be overwhelmed and become godly, actually presents a God who is not love, but rather a dictator who forces everyone to be like Him. Genuine love, as painful as it is, allows the rejection of love.

The next idea that is problem in Universalism, is that forgiveness solves the sin problem. If sin is the breaking of rules and requires punishment, but Jesus paid the punishment, then wouldn’t God forgive everyone? And if God forgives everyone, won’t all be saved?

The argument is that there is no limit to God’s forgiveness; therefore, all are forgiven and so all will be saved. While it is true that God’s forgiveness is limitless and that He forgives everyone, forgiveness does not equal salvation.  For Universalists, if a person is pardoned, he or she is freed from the punishment of the law and since God forgives everyone, then everyone must be saved. But the reality we find is that while you can forgive a person for overdosing on drugs, the forgiveness doesn’t prevent the damage done and the user still dies.

Jesus forgave those who crucified Him, but the evidence shows that many were not changed by that forgiveness. They remained selfish, and full of iniquity and within their hearts still hated truth and love. Thus, if God would take them to heaven anyway, it would be a place of torture to them, as they by their choices, have rejected love and truth and developed selfish characters that will not find God’s unveiled infinite love and truth enjoyable, they rather flee from God, begging to have the mountains crush them to hide them from Him.

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Gene, I've noticed previously that when challenged your responses become confused and I am seeing the same thing in this thread. You attempt to localise events at Christ's return when they are actually global.

Isaiah 2:17-21 tells us that, "And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day. And the idols he shall utterly abolish. And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth. In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats; To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth."

This is no local event and is paralleled in Rev.6:14-17 wherein we are told, "And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

This is a global event, the return of Christ, and the effect on the earth is devastating. There are no survivors beyond the righteous that do not remain on this earth.

Note Isa.24:1-4 "Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof. And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him. The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word. The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish."

Zephaniah also refers to this event, "I will utterly consume all things from off the land, saith the LORD. I will consume man and beast; I will consume the fowls of the heaven, and the fishes of the sea, and the stumblingblocks with the wicked; and I will cut off man from off the land, saith the LORD. I will also stretch out mine hand upon Judah, and upon all the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and I will cut off the remnant of Baal from this place, and the name of the Chemarims with the priests; And them that worship the host of heaven upon the housetops; and them that worship and that swear by the LORD, and that swear by Malcham; And them that are turned back from the LORD; and those that have not sought the LORD, nor enquired for him.
(Zephaniah 1:2-6)

Now, when we move to Rev.20:1 where the angel has the key to "the bottomless pit". In the Greek the word translated as "bottomless pit" is αβυσσου (abussos). This is the same Greek word used in the Septuagint in Gen.1:2 which is translated as "void". It is not a literal pit or chasm it is a description of the state of an uninhabited earth. When Rev.20:5 goes on to say that "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" it is confirming that there is no-one left on the earth during the millennium.

This is no sci-fi fantasy of black holes, it happens on the earth, satan is bound to the earth. There is no Biblical evidence whatever of satan being removed from the earth, none. You cannot just invent things to suit what you want the scriptures to say - and this is exactly what you appear to be doing. Take for example your response above, you state

"Jeremiah is not speaking of the desolation of the planet earth; he was speaking of the land in which he is prophesying about"

Yet in the next paragraph you say,

"the words land and earth are interchangeable. He says Blow yea the trumpet in the land, but what land? Then he sees that land i.e. the earth in disarray, desolated due to the nuclear calamity that is going to occur in it."

You swap and change the meanings of words to suit your interpretation rather than following what the Bible says. Suddenly you invent a nuclear calamity yet the Bible says nothing about a nuclear calamity it speaks about devastation caused by Christ's return. Look at the example of Sodom and Gomorrah. Gen.18:20 says that it was their sin that caused their destruction and Gen.19:24 says that it was God raining fire from heaven that destroyed them. It is confirmed by Deut.29:23 which says that the Lord overthrew them in His anger and wrath. This is why both Peter and Jude refers to the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah as "an example" in vs.7. 

If you read what the Bible says you will not have to turn to fantasies about nuclear war and black holes neither will you have to invent something other than what the Bible says to justify this strange doctrine you present. What you suggest is more like the teachings of the Jehovah's Witnesses and is certainly far away from what we as SDAs believe. Nuclear fire leaves a contaminated earth not a purified earth.

Lastly, you attempt to use Psalm 67:4 to justify your theory but again it makes no sense to use it this way. As the judgement takes place before Christ's return of course the nations must be on earth when the judgement takes place. But once the judgement is completed then Christ returns and the earth is laid desolate. 

I'm afraid your theories make no sense and this is demonstrated by the fact that you regularly contradict yourself.

John, thank you for your critique and your correction relating to the bottomless pit.

Yes, the bible says all those things, and God will do all that He will according to His purpose; but we should to understand God’s purpose as it relates to the whole bible and not just the one's our dogma is centered around. The verses and the prophets speak about what is called the day of the Lord, it is not the day of Jesus second coming, but a day that God will punish the world for sins. Though dreadful as it may be, God always punish out of love and in the end of this punishment a new age or a new world will emerge because of it.

But God is not going to destroy the earth, the planet will not be left desolate for any time.

For thus says the LORD— He who created the heavens; He is God; He formed the earth and fashioned it; He established it; He did not create it to be empty but formed it to be inhabited— “I am the LORD, and there is no other.

The future of earth is far different than what you have imagined or have learned. This future age of humanity will be ushered in at the coming of Jesus in the clouds. The Apostle Paul says,

Rom. 8:19 The creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God.  20For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.…

WHEN WILL THIS BE, JOHN?

Jesus told his disciples (Matt. 19:28) Amp.

...in the new age [the Messianic rebirth of the world], when the Son of Man shall sit down on the throne of His glory, you who have [become My disciples, sided with My party and] followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel.

As calamitous as Zephaniah reads, in it God give us a picture of glimmering hope and says this.

9For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.

10From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia my suppliants, even the daughter of my dispersed, shall bring mine offering.

11In that day shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings, wherein thou hast transgressed against me: for then I will take away out of the midst of thee them that rejoice in thy pride, and thou shalt no more be haughty because of my holy mountain.

12I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the LORD.

Isaiah speaks the same words as Jeremiah, Isaiah is an end-time book as we see in 30:8

Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:

In Isaiah God gives us some of the most amazing visions of the future.

2 Now it will come about that In the last days The mountain of the house of the LORD Will be established as the chief of the mountains, And will be raised above the hills; And all the nations will stream to it. 3  And many peoples will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob; That He may teach us concerning His ways And that we may walk in His paths." For the law will go forth from Zion And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Your understanding of God’s purpose is skewed, the earth will not become the way you need it to be. Will there be frightful times to come? Yes, but Jesus says in Matthew 24

…And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved:

How do you suppose those day will be shortened, and why will they be shortened to save flesh, if the earth is to be a desolated dead planet?

God shares with us the bad news, which you have emphasized. God also shares with us the good news of the kingdom of God; Jesus said,

The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.

You can understand the bad news, but you have to believe the good news.

The bible tells us of Jesus coming, as you have mentioned, and it also says why.

  • Rev. 19:11 “in righteousness He judges and wages war.”
  • Ps. 110:6 He will judge the nations, heaping up corpses; He will crush leaders over the entire world.

There are two ongoing themes as it relates to Christ coming; righteousness and judgement.

Ps. 9:8 says,

And he shall judge the world in righteousness, he shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness.

"... he shall judge the world in righteousness." This is why Rev. 20: 4 tells us:

 Then I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge.

"he shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness."

This is why those who are resurrect are made into a kingdom of priests. They will minister to people; people who are living on earth.

 

There will be a renewal or restoration when Jesus comes, Acts 3 tells us that

 and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, 21 whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.

Isaiah 65 shows us this restoration (remember Isaiah is an end-time book).

17 "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind... And there will no longer be heard in her The voice of weeping and the sound of crying.

 20 "No longer will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, Or an old man who does not live out his days; For the youth will die at the age of one hundred And the one who does not reach the age of one hundred Will be thought accursed.

In this new earth, people are living and dying, but life expectancy has changed.

So again, your views doesn’t hold true and isn't supported by the bible, at all!

If this is taking place on earth, where will Satan be? He won't be on earth.  Earth is not the bottomless pit and nor will it become such. In Revelation 17, the beast comes out of the bottomless pit which shows that the earth is not and will not be. The bible gives us the reason why Satan will be cast out and into the bottomless pit.

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled:

The nations are on the earth, why do you hold onto an untruth? This was just proven. Satan will not be on the earth and the earth will not become a desolated dead planet.

 

No one here Gene buys your story, bottomless pit stems from Genesis 1:2.

 

Would the angels reserved in the darkness unto the day of judgement be the same?

Richard said,

“Would the angels reserved in the darkness unto the day of judgement be the same?”

Be the same as what, cast into the bottomless pit? Well, the bible says

1Cor. 15:25 For he (Jesus) must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

Who are these enemies? The bible describes them as, all rule and all authority and power, or every principality and authority and power.

So, on a spiritual plane, where are the authorities and power?  Eph. 6:12 answer that question.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Jesus and those who rule with him will abolish all principalities, powers, and rulers in high places. These evil spiritual forces in the heavenly realm will be subdued.

Only Satan is cast into the bottomless pit. Those principalities, powers, and rulers will be defeated. The bible says of them,

he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

They are reserved or kept as in a prison; they are watched over. They are in everlasting chains under darkness. Their intellect is darkened and therefore they thrive off of negativity which they themselves create in our human world.

So, when Satan is removed, and these demons are defeated and are no longer capable of creating the chaos of pain and suffering they require, the world in general will become a place of tranquility. It will be this way until Satan is release from his prison.

This is all I have on those Richard.

1Pe 3:18  Christ suffered for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners to bring you safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit. 
1Pe 3:19  So he went and preached to the spirits in prison— 
1Pe 3:20  those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat. Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood. 

Gene said, "we should to understand God’s purpose as it relates to the whole bible and not just the one's our dogma is centered around."

That's exactly my point. You grab verses and half-verses and try and determine their meaning according to what you want to try and prove at the time. There's no consistency and so contradictions are introduced.

You say, "But God is not going to destroy the earth, the planet will not be left desolate for any time."
Now this is a conflation of two things and again confuses the argument. You quote Isa.45:18 which tells us the purpose of the creation of the earth - and this corresponds with the pattern in Genesis. However, you then suggest that the earth being left desolate equates to destroying the earth which is a logical fallacy (as well as being a straw man as you are the only one to suggest such a thing). This is a dishonest argument.

You then quote Romans 8:19-21 whilst ignoring vs.18 and vs.22-39. If you read the entirety then your question will be answered.

Next you jump to Matt.19:28 which again you seem to infer takes place on earth but with no scriptural support for such an assertion.

Ignoring the Isaiah quote as you are not making any new point let's turn to "but Jesus says in Matthew 24
…And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved:
How do you suppose those day will be shortened, and why will they be shortened to save flesh, if the earth is to be a desolated dead planet?"

To answer your question, all you have to do is put back what you have ignored from the previous verses. "The days" referred to is the time before Christ returns. Note the entirety of the verse you quote in part: "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." (Matthew 24:22) If you had quoted the entire passage you would not have been able to ask such a question - it is self-explanatory.

You keep confusing and trying to conflate the words of Scripture and this is where I have an argument with you. You pick and choose, removing scriptures from their rightful context to try and make them fit your theory - just as you did with Psalm 67. You are not consistent in your interpretation and other respondents have pointed this out to you. So the "days" that are referred to are the days before Christ returns and when He returns He saves the righteous living whilst His return kills the wicked and devastates the earth - just as I have stated previously. You see, it all fits if you leave it in context.

Gene said, "God shares with us the bad news, which you have emphasized. God also shares with us the good news of the kingdom of God; Jesus said, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel. You can understand the bad news, but you have to believe the good news."

Then let's look at the good news. I have not avoided it, rather you have led the direction of the discussion and you have focussed on the 1,000 years, the millennium. In your attempt to claim universalism you have deliberately misinterpreted what the Bible says. Nowhere is the good news defined as that the wicked shall have eternal life. John 3:16 is clear on that: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." If the wicked have everlasting life then John 3:16 is a lie.

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." (Revelation 21:1)
Note that God say clearly that the first heaven and earth are passed away. First implies a second, or new, heaven and earth. This is why, in verse 5, Christ says, "Behold, I make all things new." In case you think He doesn't mean what He says He goes on to say, "these words are true and faithful." (Revelation 21:5)


So, what does He make new? Heaven and earth.
"Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land." (Zephaniah 1:18) You have already agreed that "the land" can also be rendered "the earth" and there is a dual application here applying not only what happens to Judah during the Babylonian invasion but also to the world during the second advent of Jesus Christ. This is confirmed by Peter:
"But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness." (2 Peter 3:7-13)
John also records the same event in the Revelation:
"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:11-15) Here we read about the second death, the ultimate end of the wicked (Rev.21:8), not experienced by the righteous (see Rev.2:11; 20:6).
"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." (Revelation 20:7-10) The final end of the wicked is not that they are given another chance, converted by the preaching of the redeemed, it is that they suffer the second, final, death. This is where the concept of universalism fails as it is unBiblical.

Gene then said, "The bible tells us of Jesus coming, as you have mentioned, and it also says why.
• Rev. 19:11 “in righteousness He judges and wages war.”
• Ps. 110:6 He will judge the nations, heaping up corpses; He will crush leaders over the entire world.
There are two ongoing themes as it relates to Christ coming; righteousness and judgement.
Ps. 9:8 says,
And he shall judge the world in righteousness, he shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness.
"... he shall judge the world in righteousness." This is why Rev. 20: 4 tells us:
 Then I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge.
"he shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness."
This is why those who are resurrect are made into a kingdom of priests. They will minister to people; people who are living on earth."

Where does it say that the resurrected (who are taken to heaven) will minister to people living on the earth? You have not provided one scripture to back up your assertion. Neither have you shown how and when they are supposed to do this. You also ignore Rev.22:11,12: "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be." Jesus does not come to judge but comes with judgement otherwise He cannot say verse 11 nor can He say "my reward is with me".

Gene, simply put you have proven nothing, you have just given an opinion that is not supported by scripture. You have claimed that the bottomless pit is a black hole in space, do you now want to claim that the beast of Revelation 17 comes out of a black hole when in reality it comes from a condition of nothingness, like death?

The Bible tells us that when Christ returns the righteous rise to meet Him in the air and the wicked are killed leaving a desolate planet. You said yourself that the earth is left desolate in a previous post, now you have changed your mind again? How can we take what you say seriously when you keep contradicting yourself? You even began his post by thanking me for correcting you on the bottomless pit but by the time we reach the end of your post you have flipped again.

How can you explain anything when your beliefs change from post to post. First you need to establish exactly what you believe before you can attempt to correct others.

Good luck  reasoning with Gene. Theory is being developed on the go guided by his philosophical and theological worldview

Peace 

Gene wrote: "But Jeremiah is not speaking of the desolation of the planet earth; he was speaking of the land in which he is prophesying about; some bible makes this point.
Youngs Literal Translation:
I looked to the land, and lo, waste and void, And unto the heavens, and their light is not.


Gene wrote: "In this chapter, the words land and earth are interchangeable. He says Blow yea the trumpet in the land, but what land? Then he sees that land i.e. the earth in disarray, desolated due to the nuclear calamity that is going to occur in it. This occurrence will also have a devastating impact the planet’s heavenly bodies."

Gene wrote: "But God is not going to destroy the earth, the planet will not be left desolate for any time."

Gene, with all due respect, but the contradiction is amazing, and so obvious. We agree in that the words land and earth in the the verses located in Jer.4:23-28 are interchangeable, but can we agree Jeremiah sees the whole land/earth and its desolation? 

 This is what it says brother Gene, let's check it out 

Jer. 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

If you believe land and earth are interchangeable, then when Jeremiah writes, " The whole land shall be desolate;..", then you must agree Jeremiah is really saying the whole earth shall be desolate. I assume our definition of desolate is the same, no life.

You already agree Jeremiah is seeing the whole earth 

Gene wrote:: "Jeremiah [sees] all the cities thereof were broken down. (New York, Washington DC, Paris, London, Jerusalem)." (Brackets are mine)

 Brother Gene, the more you write, it's apparent that your unknowingly confusing scripture to support and shape your theory... I'm hoping your unknowingly confusing scripture, scary to think you would want to purposely do that Gene. But don't worry, we will expose the false doctrine the WWCOG (perhaps with a twist of the JW's teachings) has got you believing. 

 Let's go this particular subject that's within our overall discussion, SDA doctrine points to Jeremiah 4:23-28 as one of the proofs that there won't be any human one earth during the 1000 years, it shows when Jesus comes in the clouds, His "presence ", "His fierce anger" will destroy "all the cities ", and the "whole land shall be desolate ". 

 You are teaching,

Gene wrote: "But Jeremiah is not speaking of the desolation of the planet earth; he was speaking of the land in which he is prophesying about;..."

  I think you better listen to brother JohnB, you are clearly contradicting yourself... Gene, you already agree Jeremiah sees the whole earth and its desolation, let me post it again 

Gene wrote:: "Jeremiah [sees] all the cities thereof were broken down. (New York, Washington DC, Paris, London, Jerusalem)." (Brackets are mine)

 Again, you believe Jeremiah is seeing the whole earth, but then you post

Gene wrote: "But Jeremiah is not speaking of the desolation of the planet earth; he was speaking of the land in which he is prophesying about;..."

 By your own words, you agree Jeremiah is not speaking of just one particular land, but all the lands of earth, like you said , from NY, DC, Paris, London, Jerusalem... the Bible says all the cities, so that means more than what you mention, "ALL the cities ".  Bro., that means Jeremiah is in fact seeing the whole earth and its desolation. 

 bless! 

 

Elijah, Gen 1:2 says

The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep…

We have to go back to how God created the earth.

For thus says the LORD— He who created the heavens; He is God; He formed the earth and fashioned it; He established it; He did not create it to be empty but formed it to be inhabited— “I am the LORD, and there is no other.

The KJV reads: Is:45:18

For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

The word “vain” as “empty” is tohu in the Hebrew. It’s the same word used in Gen. 1:2

Definition: formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness

1 formlessness, of primaeval earth Genesis 1:2 (P), of land reduced to primaeval chaos Jeremiah 4:23.

God said he created it not this way. Something happened between Gen. verses 1 and 2 that we don’t know about because the earth was in existence. So, God's vision of the earth is not what you say it will be.

OK, Gene how do you reconcile the texts you quoted with this:

Rev 21:1  And I saw a new heaven and a new earth. For the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. And the sea no longer is. 

The verse I quoted was taken from Is. 65:17, that a different time than Rev. 21:1. It says new heavens and a new earth.

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