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..or those who question why God doesn't save everyone.

The wrong premise that comes with Universalism, is that the wicked will die is not true because it would then be a limitation in God, it holds that if all are not saved, it limits God and His ability to heal all sin. It really is failure on their part to realize that God cannot create character. God can create sinless beings, but the character must be developed by the freewill choices of the person. While God does possess the power to overwrite the individuality of a person and instill His perfection without their consent, to do so would destroy that person and create a basically a robot, where that person used to be. This action would violate God’s own character of love, which never compels, never coerces, and never forces. Love only exists in an atmosphere of freedom. So the Universalist idea, that God’s love will one day be so compelling that all will be overwhelmed and become godly, actually presents a God who is not love, but rather a dictator who forces everyone to be like Him. Genuine love, as painful as it is, allows the rejection of love.

The next idea that is problem in Universalism, is that forgiveness solves the sin problem. If sin is the breaking of rules and requires punishment, but Jesus paid the punishment, then wouldn’t God forgive everyone? And if God forgives everyone, won’t all be saved?

The argument is that there is no limit to God’s forgiveness; therefore, all are forgiven and so all will be saved. While it is true that God’s forgiveness is limitless and that He forgives everyone, forgiveness does not equal salvation.  For Universalists, if a person is pardoned, he or she is freed from the punishment of the law and since God forgives everyone, then everyone must be saved. But the reality we find is that while you can forgive a person for overdosing on drugs, the forgiveness doesn’t prevent the damage done and the user still dies.

Jesus forgave those who crucified Him, but the evidence shows that many were not changed by that forgiveness. They remained selfish, and full of iniquity and within their hearts still hated truth and love. Thus, if God would take them to heaven anyway, it would be a place of torture to them, as they by their choices, have rejected love and truth and developed selfish characters that will not find God’s unveiled infinite love and truth enjoyable, they rather flee from God, begging to have the mountains crush them to hide them from Him.

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Elijah,

So, explain to me how this is taken out of context.

Jesus says in Luke 20:35

35But those who are considered worthy to share in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead …. they are sons of the resurrection, they are sons of God.…

I’m merely showing you the the responsibilities of those who will be resurrected. The fact that the creation awaits this moment should be mind blowing; we should be in awe.

Yes, Gene, we are all awaiting the resurrection, and that was not what I was complaining about. You consistently put together passages to prove that Jesus will reign here on earth in the 1000 years, those verses taken out like that are not in harmony with some other texts in the Bible. 

Elijah, do you read the bible.

[In Revelation chapter 4 we are given a look into the very throne room in heaven.  As we are presented with the scene, we are pointed to those around the throne.]

4Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and on these thrones sat twenty-four elders dressed in white, with golden crowns on their heads.

[We are also shown other living creatures, and we are told;]

(9) And whenever the living creatures give glory, honor, and thanks to the One seated on the throne who lives forever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before the One seated on the throne, and they worship Him who lives forever and ever. They cast their crowns before the throne, saying:

11“You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for You created all things; by Your will they exist, and came to be.”

[This throne room scene continues into chapter 5 where in verse 8 we are told this:]

8 When He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp, and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9And they sang a new song:

[I’m sure we can agree that this vision and the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders are in the heavens of heaven where the Father is.]

9And they sang a new song:

“Worthy are You to take the scroll and open its seals, because You were slain, and by Your blood You purchased for God those from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. 10 You have made them into a kingdom, priests to serve our God, and they will reign upon the earth.”

and they will reign upon the earth.

[Now, I don’t say this, the bible says it. I don’t have any preconceived opinions, but it seems there are preconceived opinions here.]

Now, it says,

… you (Jesus) have made them into a kingdom, priests to serve our God, and they will reign upon the earth.”

[Question, when will they reign on earth, and when will they be a kingdom of priests?]

And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

[Those who came to life or were resurrected will reigned with Christ for a thousand years. When will they reign?]

6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

[So, it should be opinionated, as it is clearly shared by those who are in heaven. The ones who will be priest of God and Christ will reign with Christ, and they will reign on earth for a thousand years.]   

Why dose God need a kingdom of priest in heaven?

Did is what we call generic gospel Gene. Take the Scripture out of context to suit your opinion.

Benicio,

Maybe it’s your understanding or misunderstanding that is out of context; the bible speaks for itself.  What you call generic, the bible calls the revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave him.. Speaking of Jesus, in Acts 3:21 the bible says

Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

What did the holy prophets say?  David says,

Psalm 96:10

Declare among the nations: “The LORD reigns!” The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved; He will judge the peoples with equity.

Psalm 98:9

… for He comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world with righteousness, and the peoples with equity.

As you see, this will be a period of judgement. Does the Lord reign now? Of course not.

Revelation 11: 15 gives us the time;

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdom {kingdoms} of this world is {are} become the kingdom {kingdoms} of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign forever and ever.

So, as you see, it all related to “this world”.  Something is going on that you don’t understand.

EGW even seem to be a bit confused, she says,

“Those whom Christ raises in the first resurrection will reign with Him for a thousand years (Rev. 20:4). But in what sense can the saints be said to reign if they are in heaven and all the wicked are dead? Their reign will consist of involvement in an important phase of Christ's governing.”

But what does that mean? She says this.

The millennial judgment does not decide who is to be saved or lost. God makes that decision before the Second Advent; all those who were not either resurrected or translated then are forever lost. (so much for salvation) The judgment in which the righteous participate serves the purpose of answering any questions the righteous may have as to why the wicked are lost. God wants those to whom He has given eternal life to have full confidence in His leadership, so He will reveal to them the operations of His mercy and justice.

Now, you have to admit, this doesn’t all make sense.

Gene, Again you are taking this out of context.

Gene said;

"[Question, when will they reign on earth, and when will they be a kingdom of priests?]"

Yes, Gen good question and the answer will be found when you reconcile the texts on this subject as the true SDA students have. They did not build a doctrine on one text like you like to do. As Benicio says your gospel is generic and more precisely a second chance gospel that SDA does not subscribe to what so ever. 

He doesn't. God doesn't need anything.

His people will be a kingdom of priests because with the eradication of sin there will be no need to work like before, no more hard, sweat-inducing work. Rather, we will spend our time with God.

We will be restored to the position that Adam was in before the fall. The earth will be made new, as will we. The only ones who have salvation are those who spend one thousand years with Christ in heaven before returning to the new earth and a new life. 

JohnB,

We know God does need, but through Jesus Christ the bible says he has made those who are to be resurrected first into a kingdom of priest.

Revelation 5:10 New International Version says, “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God”, while other say unto God or for God.

So, God has a designed purpose for those who are resurrected first.  You have a fairy-tale view of this, one that is not rooted in scripture.

Those who are given salvation first will reign with Christ for a thousand years serving as kings and priests unto God.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

You should understand what this word “reign” means in this context; it means to rule or to be king.

Some bibles make this distinction;

  • but they shall be priests to God and to Christ, and shall be kings with Christ for the thousand years. (Weymouth New Testament)
  • They will continue to be priests of God and Christ. They will rule with him for 1,000 years. (GOD'S WORD® Translation)
  • They will be priests of God and the Messiah, and will rule with him for a thousand years. (International Standard Version)

They will reign; rule and be kings with him, the Messiah for a thousand years. This is God’s purpose and why they are made unto God a kingdom of priest.

Will Christ reign, and where will his rule be?  1 Corinthians 15:25 says “he must reign”.  So, according to the scriptures, it a far-gone conclusion.

Why must Christ reign, why can’t Christ do as you believe, to spend one thousand years with Christ in heaven before returning to the new earth and a new life?

As you see, the plan of salvation is not finished, and will not be until this phase of the work is complete.

24Then the end will come (the end of Christ reign), when He (Christ) hands over the kingdom (what kingdom?) to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power…

26The last enemy to be destroyed is death.…

Those who are resurrected first as a kingdom of priest will rule with Christ, they will help Christ destroy all dominion, authority, and power; THEY WILL ERADICATE SIN FROM THE EARTH.

This is why we are told in Revelation 5:10

Aramaic Bible in Plain English

“And you have made them a Kingdom, Priests and Kings to our God, and they shall reign over The Earth.”

Good News Translation

You have made them a kingdom of priests to serve our God, and they shall rule on earth."

The focal point is the earth because all dominion, authority, and power are in this world and now rule over it; not in heaven where God reign.

Next, I will explain why you are incorrect concerning the position of Adam, as you have said,

We will be restored to the position that Adam was in before the fall.

Reasoning,

I do agree that to be with Christ is to be in heaven, but where will Christ be?

Matthew 19:28

Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

What is the renewal of all things and when will it be?  Jesus says it will take place when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne. When will that be? Again, Jesus says in Matthew 25:31

But whenever The Son of Man comes in his glory and all his Holy Angels with him, then he will sit upon the throne of his glory.

You have a fairy-tale view of the second coming. As you believe Christ is coming back to take you and people like you to heaven where you can build mansion, go over books and whatever else your imagination can think of.  However, the bible gives us a true picture; Jesus is coming to take charge of this world.

Luke 22:29And I bestow on you a kingdom, just as My Father has bestowed one on Me, 30so that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom, and sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

The Father has bestowed upon Jesus a kingdom.

He said therefore, A certain high-born man went to a distant country to receive for himself a kingdom and return.

Jesus will return to be king over all the earth, not to go back where he received the kingship, but to establish the kingdom upon his return.  Where do we see Christ returning back to heaven?

Gene said:

"You have a fairy-tale view of the second coming. As you believe Christ is coming back to take you and people like you to heaven where you can build mansion, go over books and whatever else your imagination can think of.  However, the bible gives us a true picture; Jesus is coming to take charge of this world."

The one who is having fairytales Gene is you because you have not reconciled all texts on the subject as I told you before "A text taken out of context is a Pretext"

Peace 

 Gene wrote: "I do agree that to be with Christ is to be in heaven, but where will Christ be?"

  I agree, being anywhere with Jesus is to be in Heaven for sure. However, the Heaven I'm speaking of is where the Father's house is located. 

 Where is the Father's house with the rooms/mansions?

Do you believe the Father's house with the many rooms is coming down to earth from Heaven? 

 All I know that is where saints are going to be, how do I know ? Because the Bible says it. 

  

  John14: 2 In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am. 4You know the way to the place where I am going

 

  Can we agree the place being prepared for the saints is in the Father's house which is in Heaven? 

Blessings! 

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