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This is a shocking revelation to me, and not sure if it is true, so I want my brothers to study EGW carefully on this topic....

Paster Jerimiah Davies has presented a most profound sermon you all need to hear

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-LskB2X9gU 

He says 90% of the SDA people will be shaken out to make way for the rest of the world who love our message to come in...

He says for the first time, in the USA, the Gay Marriage has been passed which Obama says will strengthen the families...

He even mentions such anti-Christ marriage concepts are in the SDA remnant church

He mentions this is a twin institution one is already passed, and now we have a few months to a few short years for the second twin to be passed into our great nation. 

Soon the Sunday law second siege will come, and He says that the foolish SDA virgins will awake from sleep and want the Holy Spirit then to refresh them as the wise SDA virgins...but sadly the wise will tell them to go to Jesus and get some oil for yourself, because our character is not transferrable from us to you. He says it will be too late for SDA foolish virgins to find this saving oil when Sunday comes, but not too late for those outside the church who will flood into our church at the end of time.

Is Paster Davies message correct ? As SDA virgins are some of us making perilous decisions in trampling upon the mercies of Jesus and refusing to come into His great love every day ? Should we not come to Jesus now in all of His love and obey all of His teachings in the torah, and be found with power and truth in everything we do ? O I pray we are not found wanting but found with faith in Him our Saviour and our Redeemer....the second siege of Sunday law is soon to come....are we abiding In Him now ? It will be too late to flee into Jesus when Sunday law comes, lest while escaping we turn as did Lot's wife and look back to the love of the world.

When the angels urged those in the cities to leave, how many righteous were found ? None...but four did heed the warning to leave, "Don't look back" or lest ye be consumed warned the angel"... Even at the loud cry of destruction still even those fleeing, one looked but, but the ones saved were not any better believers than the one who looked back, only that they obeyed and fled as they were told.

Our end of time prophet says to get out of cities, the Bible says to flee the cities when the first siege of Sunday law comes...and this did come in 1888 in the USA, so my friends, God calls those who obey...not those are already perfect in His grace, just those willing to be obey His instructions, lest ye be consumed in the coming destruction....

Is Pastor Davies correct ? How much time does the foolish SA virgins have when the midnight cry comes ? And what does EGW say about this ? And why be so complacent until then ? Isn't it better to be living in His paradise today ? So put off your jewellery , your worldly music and your fashion clothing , your rich foods and seek Him as our pioneers did, in the old truth that does not change.....

Shalom

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DKPqiRFTLk  Watch this video by Dave Westbrook, paying attention to the SOP He uses

Shalom

Here is a summary of the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DKPqiRFTLk  Watch this video by Dave Westbrook, paying attention to the SOP He uses

Even now they are making a beginning

She calls this beginning of assumption of power, the Sunday law

The Sunday law has already passed into the USA in a limited degree....this happened in 1888....

The same typology as the early Christians, who had two sieges....

not one or 10 Jason, just two Roman sieges....

Hope this helps

Shalom

Hi rob,

You asked, "Does this help?" and I have to answer, not really.

When a response comes that I need to listen to a lot of sermons to understand a point I  am very concerned. We should be able to explain all our beliefs succinctly. I don't have time to wade through all the sermons of a group of speakers on the off-chance that I will watch the right ones when a brief summary may suffice.

You apparently liken the 4-year gap between 66 AD and 70 AD with the 120+ year gap between US laws of the late 19th century and coming universal Sunday Laws. I find that a hard allegory in the way it is being applied. Cestius' removal from Jerusalem back to the coast does not seem in my mind to equate to the lull after the 19th century push in the USA for Sunday Laws. If the allegory is to work then the suggestion must be that anyone who did not leave the cities has lost that opportunity. Once the siege of Jerusalem was recommenced those who left the city after that time were killed or taken prisoner as all were contained within the fence that Rome had thrown around the city.

The logical extension of this is that no SDAs should be living in a city post-1890 and according to what you have been presenting should not enter a city post-1890. Moreover there is the implication that any SDAs living in cities are lost, as were any who remained in Jerusalem after 66 AD. Sad to think that those who convert or are born in the cities are given no opportunity to leave after the late 19th century.

I cannot abandon the idea of evangelising the millions who live in the cities on this basis.

There also appears to be an ignoring of the particular circumstances that lead to the adoption of Sunday Laws. By this I mean the increase in disasters at sea and on the land, natural disasters that cannot be controlled by man and so lead godless, scared people to turn to God.

There is one other aspect that cannot be ignored: one may ask why Christ did not come at the end of the 19th century? The traditional answer has been that He would have come at that time if the Church had run with the Righteousness by Faith message - but they did not. So, once again, God's Church goes around the mountain and is brought back to that testing point. Until the whole world has had the opportunity to hear the true Gospel Christ will not come. So, our focus should be on the lost.

As far as our own knowledge and wisdom of God, salvation, etc., there is no better way to grow in Christ than to get on to the mission field. Admittedly you did not mention what kind of witnessing programme you have in the country areas but I wonder if you have such immediate access to souls as can be found in the cities.

I remind you that I am fully convinced of the rightness of country living but I am very concerned that it should not be used as an excuse to abandon the cities. Please do read Country Living and look at some of the statements that Ellen White made late in her ministry about working the cities. There will be a time when we will not be able to work the cities so let us work now whilst there is still light otherwise we will still have to do the work but under much more trying circumstances.

Blessings.

Brother John for the sake of listening to elder SDA brother Dave Westbrook (and others such as Jerimiah Davies) you refuse to allow a few hours of their witness to make a statement about the need to get out of cities....I feel for you...out of all the thousands of hours you have now what is 1 hour listening to a video ?

I don't have time....really ? We all need to make time to listen to people who just might have a truth, indeed even the very elect will be deceived...

You raise the issue of Country Living, yes I read her statements, she says we witness to the Cities, not by living in them but by us visiting them....

I have been an SDA person over 30 years and I do not know of a single case of any SDA person or church doing the witness you so desire upon the earth....yes I am ready to begin, but how many are ? Begin what ? witness door too door, every door in our local area....as a teenager we were asked person's helped, people witnessed to, Bible studies given, etc....not done anymore...why is that ?

Because nobody witnesses anymore...we are a dead sleeping people...me included....the only time we get courage to witness is Appeal day...I remember once Alex and myself went around my local town witnessing just because we wanted to on Sabbath....it's a good thing when there is two....rather than one...

I have tried for year to get my local church to witness...no takers....Alex has left to go back to another town...my local church is a country church, in a village of 200 homes, but to one home every gets a visit...except in appeals... why I remember asking my elder John, and he said well a couple do want help with erecting their house...free labour...well, nobody helps...no body even sees that as missionary work...why if we asked the local town for need help,,,, we would be swamped...

Another church is right in the city....great I said to the Pastor, why not run a drug and soup kitchen 24 hours a day there using volunteers, count me in...this city church is just 70kms from where I live...but again no takers....the church is silent....and it sits just 100 m from the Post Office...

Witnessing ? Why I can't get any church to start up any program....I used to volunteer teaching helps to a local primary school for free, with computer studies, in Stanthorpe...and the big boys came along and shut the only country witnessing education program in all of Queensland....I told them so....the only other schools we have are Brisbane and Makay I think...2 in all of Qld...

Witnessing , I feel we are shrinking in our witness not expanding, we are letting the world in , not keeping the world out and witnessing to it...

STORM a group of young people do activities once a year I think, and once came to my local school when I was there, its a great thing doing work for free, but it's only once a year, and the wrong witnessing....not preaching the Lord is Coming.

You make it sound easy, and you have great success....share us with what you are doing, because it's not doing here in Australia....

Some big city churches in Sydney head quarters such as Waitara have a dozen people in it on a good Sabbath, empty massive buildings...the rest go to the Opal church nearby and go stuff differently, but its a gathering, not a city witnessing...

Please share her what kind of witnessing EGW had in mind during the 3 angels message ? And really if we are committed to this it does not matter where you live....?

 "but I wonder if you have such immediate access to souls as can be found in the cities."

There are 6,000 unemployed people in Bundaberg, a city church, lots of drugs and backpackers, homeless people and street kids....

We could do a drop in soup kitchen (24 hours)

Drop in and sleep... (every night)

Drop in and hear Jesus speak (every night)

Drug assistance program (volunteer nurses)

Daily helps with meals on wheels (food is free to elderly)

Daily chores in your house for free (carer needs)

As far as I know, my local city Church runs none of these programs

I would imagine your local church does...please share what kinds of witnessing we can do....

We have to finish the work...meaning preaching, telling them trouble is coming...

I mean are churches set up to harvest ? or worship 2 hours per week?

If I ran an Sabbath program every afternoon in my local church, would I be allowed to ?

My brother ran a program every Friday night in a city once, got lots of youth...they closed him down

I tried to keep opening a primary country school, they closed it down

I am all ready for witnessing John, but I can't find volunteers willing to invest time and money, or even a church willing to restructure its mission from worship to harvest...and that means restructure everything, including programs....maybe even the salary of Pastors...what do we even need Pastors for ? Elders we the Pastors of the church, the Pastor was supposed to be a full time harvester but most Pastors I know do nothing. The money could be better spent on local missionary projects....

Shalom

One SOP for you John

The crisis is now upon us. The battle is to be waged between the Christianity of the Bible and the Christianity of human tradition. Is there not a criminal neglect in our present sleepy condition? There must be a decided advance movement among us. We must show to the world that we recognize, in the events that are now taking place in connection with the National Reform movement, the fulfillment of prophecy. That which we have, for the last thirty or forty years, proclaimed would come, is now here; and the trumpet of every watchman upon the walls of Zion should raise the alarm. RH January 1, 1889, par. 3

Prophecy represents Protestantism as having lamb-like horns, but speaking like a dragon. Already we are beginning to hear the voice of the dragon. There is a satanic force propelling the Sunday movement, but it is concealed. Even the men who are engaged in the work, are themselves blinded to the results which will follow their movement.

If Sunday Law is already here, as SOP says, then now is time to get out of cities before the Second Sunday law siege begins...

Shalom

Rob
The NSL is not yet here...

Did you not read the SOP Jason?

The National Reform Movement is a movement about getting Sunday laws passed....and they did in 1888 and EGW says

the fulfillment of prophecy. That which we have, for the last thirty or forty years, proclaimed would come, is now here;

In other places she says "Sunday Law" has come, in a ' limited degree ' already gone forth....check out her SOP...

Yes the first siege is about "Sunday Law" but the second siege is about "National Sunday Law"....

She says to get out of cities once the assumption of power begins...

not when NSL has already happened....

did the Christians leaves the cities during the first siege or the second siege ? in AD 66 or AD 70?

Shalom

rob,

You said, "Brother John for the sake of listening to elder SDA brother Dave Westbrook (and others such as Jerimiah Davies) you refuse to allow a few hours of their witness to make a statement about the need to get out of cities....I feel for you...out of all the thousands of hours you have now what is 1 hour listening to a video ?"

You had said, "You need to listen to many sermons..." and listed four speakers. That is certainly more than "1 hour".  There's only 168 hours in a week and I have to work, sleep, witness and study in that time. Perhaps you have the privilege of thousands of hours in which you can do what you want, and you are truly blessed if you have, but I do not.

However, if you want to make sure you are not deceived trust in the Bible and the Holy Spirit only.

It is a shame you were unable to succinctly explain what you meant.

You said, "You raise the issue of Country Living, yes I read her statements, she says we witness to the Cities, not by living in them but by us visiting them...."

...and if our witness is successful we will build up churches there. I can think of areas where we have many churches being built up in cities and large campaigns taking place. When churches are built up they tend to be composed of people who live in the area. There is reference to a time when we should get out of the cities - I will refer to that below.

 

I know the name Bundaberg, as I recall I did an outreach series there many years ago - there are souls there to be saved. However, the fact that you say, "yes I am ready to begin" is rather concerning. Rob, there is no point on depending on others to enable you to witness. When Christ sent out His disciples to witness He empowered them with the Holy Spirit - and that is all you need. Go with His spirit, let Him lead you. Did you read Ellen White's beehive vision? When you read of the work that was done in San Francisco and Oakland everything is laid out before you if you are interested in working the cities.

You have plenty of time to incorporate a witnessing programme into your life. Use some of the hours you spend watching videos to witness. :-)

rob, it is great that you have a place in the country and I see no reason why you cannot be working the area where you live. I met a guy running an airport shuttle bus in and out of Brisbane the only thing he could do to witness was to put SDA magazines in the back of his little bus in the hopes that people would read them. Somebody did. She was intrigued and invited him to speak to her about our peculiar beliefs in the Sabbath and on the state of the dead. It was a hard work and he called me and some others to help. We held secret Bible studies and she, her husband and her best friend accepted the truth and prepared for baptism. She also invited us to speak to her "people". We were literally battling demons as she was a Roman Catholic prophetess who regularly spoke with "angels". We ended up presenting the Gospel to hundreds of RC priests and nuns who had been told by their "prophetess" that we were speaking truth.

The point is that if you allow yourself to be led by the Holy Spirit you will be used.

You ask what we do in the city, well, soup kitchen, door-to-door, health promotions/expos, restaurants, CD/DVD ministries, public campaigns, personal outreach, etc., etc.

As far as preaching is concerned, the thrust of the message is not "trouble is coming". Scaring people into accepting Christ is just "fire-escape" religion and is worthless. The thrust of the message should be that there is a God in heaven who loves us and is the solution to the problems of the world today. We should be like Jesus, mingling with men as ones who desire their good.

As mentioned above, I close by turning to a quote from Country Living:

"The Signal for Fleeing

It is no time now for God’s people to be fixing their affections or laying up their treasure in the world. The time is not far distant, when, like the early disciples, we shall be forced to seek a refuge in desolate and solitary places. As the siege of Jerusalem by the Roman armies was the signal for flight to the Judean Christians, so the assumption of power on the part of our nation, in the decree enforcing the papal Sabbath, will be a warning to us. It will then be time to leave the large cities, preparatory to leaving the smaller ones for retired homes in secluded places among the mountains. And now, instead of seeking expensive dwellings here, we should be preparing to move to a better country, even a heavenly. Instead of spending our means in self-gratification, we should be studying to economize.—Testimonies for the Church 5:464, 465 (1885)." p.32

Currently, the USA has not assumed power in the enforcing of the Sunday decree so it is not time for us to finally leave the large cities. I will remind you again for clarity's sake I am not arguing against country living but I am concerned about false warnings and abandoning those who dwell in cities to satan.

I remember attending the church of a very high profile "independent" minister. During the sermon a member of the congregation declared that the minister had convinced them it was the final call to get away from the cities. That was 20 years ago. It wasn't the final call.

 

(Apologies that this reply has taken so long - I don't have so much time at my disposal.)

Rob, between me and you I think some are afraid of living in the country, of getting their hands dirty or some may feel it is beneath their dignity to do so.  Some will say that preachers have been preaching for years 20+ to get out of the city and nothing has happened and that God will put them in a bubble and feed them by sending ravens or squirrels with veggie packs. 

The truth is that it takes years to set up a homestead.  Each season brings new challenges and it takes time to learn what works for the area you moved to.  Many things do not work and you need allot of knowledge about different things.  Water, power, seasons, fuel, heating, storage,  for example.   

What people fail to realize is that the people of the Bible knew from a young age how to start a fire with out matches, how to bake bread on a pile of rocks, how to dress a lamb and use its hide.  The people of the Bible were used to walking for miles and miles and they were used to going hungry.  

The people of the Bible had survival skills.  Modern people are very soft and many will die. 

I would suggest that Citified Adventist at least learn how to go camping.  

All these excuses. 

I suspect that if bad things happen I will be providing food and warmth to many helpless people.  How many will be Adventists who should have known better? 

@ Raymond, living in the country, I agree with you it's hard to get people to live away from cities, ....

@ John  " As the siege of Jerusalem by the Roman armies was the signal for flight to the Judean Christians, so the assumption of power on the part of our nation, in the decree enforcing the papal Sabbath, will be a warning to us. It will then be time to leave the large cities, preparatory to leaving the smaller ones for retired homes in secluded places among the mountains. .—Testimonies for the Church 5:464, 465 (1885)." p.32

Currently, the USA has not assumed power in the enforcing of the Sunday decree so it is not time for us to finally leave the large cities. I will remind you again for clarity's sake I am not arguing against country living but I am concerned about false warnings and abandoning those who dwell in cities to satan.

I remember attending the church of a very high profile "independent" minister. During the sermon a member of the congregation declared that the minister had convinced them it was the final call to get away from the cities. That was 20 years ago. It wasn't the final call. "END QUOTE by JOHN

"The crisis is now upon us. The battle is to be waged between the Christianity of the Bible and the Christianity of human tradition. Is there not a criminal neglect in our present sleepy condition? There must be a decided advance movement among us. We must show to the world that we recognize, in the events that are now taking place in connection with the National Reform movement, the fulfillment of prophecy. That which we have, for the last thirty or forty years, proclaimed would come, is now here; and the trumpet of every watchman upon the walls of Zion should raise the alarm. RH January 1, 1889, par. 3

Well John SOP say the USA assumption of power has already come, and your saying the USA assumption of power has not come...so who's right ?

I am glad your witnessing and doing so very much saving those in the cities, God bless your endeavours...but we could do the same witnessing by visiting the cities, rather than by living in them....SOP statement.

God in His mercy is giving people time to move out...typology speaks only of two sieges... I hope the second siege does not catch you unawares...since the Nation Sunday law takes time before no buying and selling comes, perhaps you will have time to leave than...but I feel your going against SOP on this....it takes time to learn how to live off the land as Raymond says, time to learn living on less and time to get used to depending upon GOD in the bush...

During the NSL stress, time will not be on our side....

Shalom

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