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The study concerning The Great Image of Daniel 2 is a common and generally understood portion of
Scripture. It reveals to us through symbols and figures the world’s historyfrom the days of king Nebuchadnezzar ‘till the close of time. Nevertheless, ourfocus will be centered on that portion of the king’s vision, which is notnormally discussed.
Verses 1-27. 1. Read : In verse 28

The vision reaches its complete fulfillment in our time, and that the message is mainly for those living in the last days, i.e. Dan. 12:4; PK 547, 548 --- for the latter days.

2. Read: Verses 31-35.  The actual vision.

 A.  Tanhe various parts of the Image.

Head:GOLD-- Babylon
Breast and Arms:SILVER--Medo-Persia
Belly and Thighs:BRASS-- Grecia

Legs:IRON-- Rom

Feet:Part of IRON and Part of CLAY-- Present World
B.  We are now living in the days of the ten toes.
Testimonies for the Church Volume 1, Page 361
Our kingdom is not of this world. We are waiting for our Lord from heaven to come to earth to put down all
authority and power, and set up His everlasting kingdom. Earthly powers areshaken. We need not, and cannot, expect union among the nations of the earth.Our position in the image of Nebuchadnezzar is represented by the toes, in adivided state, and of a crumbling material, that will not hold together.Prophecy shows us that the great day of God is right upon us. It hasteth


C.  What is the work of the stone? Dan. 2:45

 3. Where Did The Stone Come From ? ----- The Mountain

Read : Daniel 2:45.
The stone came from a mountain.
If the image ( gold, silver, brass, stone, etc.) is symbolical then the mountain must also be symbolical.


4. What Does A Mountain Symbolize In Scripture ? ----- People

Read : Dan. 9:16,20.

a Daniel in his prayer likens the church (Jerusalem) to a mountain.

It could not be a literal mountain, because a literal mountain cannot sin.

Isaiah 2:2,3.
God here shows that in the last days He will exalt His church above all other churches and kingdoms.
Also, many people will be invited by the saints to join the true church. Rev. 18:4 -- The finishing of the Gospel.

Further proof: Isa. 56:7, 2:2; Mic. 4:1-4; Rev. 17:9; Zech. 8:3; Matt. 5:14; Jer. 51:25; Isa. 51:16


5. Exactly What Church Does The Mountain Symbolize? ---SDA

It must be the church in the latter days (v. 28). I T 361.
The church of Laodicea (Rev. 3:14 -17).


6. Could Not The Mountain Include The Churches Of The World? ---NO
God has had only one church in each era. That is the Israelites.
According to Rev. 14:8, Babylon (The churches of the world) has fallen, indicating that God’s Spirit has been withdrawn from them. God does however have faithful people in these churches, but they will be brought into the S.D.A. church. See EW 33; John10:16.


7. What Or Whom Does The Stone Symbolize?

A remnant of the remnant church
If the mountain is people, then the stone must symbolize people as well, for the stone was cut out from the mountain.

8. Cannot The Stone Symbolize Christ At His Second Coming?
The Stone came from the church (mountain), not heaven or the sky. Dan. 2:45
If the mountain is people the stone must be people too.
The stone grows and becomes a Great Mountain -- great church. This is done through His people. Dan. 2: 45
The growth of the stone reveals the rapid growth of the purified church ( the stone). It indicates that many, many, new converts will join the ranks of the true people of God. This cannot happen at
the second visible return of Christ, for the gospel would have already been
completed, probation closed, and the plagues fallen.


9. Where Else In Scripture Is The Church Represented As A Stone?

Read: Zech. 12:3.

a Here the church (Jerusalem) is likened to a burdensome stone.

For further proof: I Peter 2:3-5 ; 8 T , 173


10. Who Are The People Symbolized By The Stone? --- 144,000

The people represented as the stone must be S.D.A.s because they came from the mountain (the church).
They (the stone) are used as God’s ‘servants’ to proclaim the gospel (in power) to the world. This is shown in the stone’s rapid growth.
The 144,000 are the only ones that embody these characteristics.

Rev. 7:1-4
They are said to be from Israel --- S.D.A. church, (verse 4). See 9T 164 or 5T 94 ,456.

Testimonies for the Church Volume 5, Page 456

God has called His church in this day, as He called ancient Israel, to stand as a light in the earth…The same disobedience and failure which were seen in the Jewish church have characterized in a greater degree the people who have had this great light from heaven in the last messages of warning. Shall we, like them, squander our opportunities and privileges until God shall permit oppression and persecution to come upon us?


b They are called by John, ‘servants’, indicating that they have a special work of proclaiming the gospel. They are, in other words, messengers of God.

Read: Rev. 14:1,4.

Here they are recorded to be ‘not defiled with women’ (other churches-doctrinally) for they are ‘virgins’ (profess a pure faith). See Jer.6:2 ; COL 406
They are called the ‘firstfruits’. This indicates that there are second fruits. One cannot have a first without a second, one necessitates the other. Therefore, the 144,000 are the first ones sealed, they in turn go out and gather in the second fruits- the Great Multitude of Rev.7:9 ; those from other churches of Babylon and the world.

For Further Study Read: EW 15 and TM 422.

Early Writings, Page 15                   

Soon we heard the voice of God like many waters, which gave us the day and hour of Jesus’ coming. The living saints, 144,000 in number, knew and understood the voice, while the wicked thought it was thunder and an earthquake. When God spoke the time, He poured upon us the Holy Ghost, and our faces began to light up and shine with the glory of God, as Moses’ did when he came down from Mount Sinai.
Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers, Page 422

Who are the subjects of the kingdom of God?—all those who do His will. They have righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. The members of Christ’s
kingdom are the sons of God, partners in His great firm. The elect of God are a
chosen generation, a peculiar people, a holy nation, to show forth the praises
of Him who hath called them out of darkness into His marvelous light.

NOTE: It is not recommended that one become too involved with all the details concerning the 144,000 and the Great Multitude. Such details are covered in the outline entitled ‘The 144,000’ and ‘The Great Multitude Who Are They?’ (Based on Revelation chapter 7).


11. How Is The Stone Cut Out Of The Mountain? --- Without Hands

Read: TM 46,47

Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers, Page 46

The church of Christ on earth will be imperfect, but God does not destroy His church because of its imperfection. There have been and will be those who are filled with zeal not
according to knowledge, who would purify the church, and uproot the tares from the midst of the wheat. But Christ has given special light as to how to deal with those who are erring, and with those who are unconverted in the church. There is to be no spasmodic, zealous, hasty action taken by church members in cutting off those they may think defective in character. Tares will appear
among the wheat; but it would do more harm to weed out the tares, unless in God’s appointed way, than to leave them alone. While the Lord brings into the church those who are truly converted, Satan at the same time brings persons who are not converted into its fellowship. While Christ is sowing the good seed, Satan is sowing the tares. There are two opposing influences continually exerted on the members of the church. One influence is working for the purification of the church, and the other for the corrupting of the people of God.

Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers, Page 47

The Lord forbids us to proceed in any violent way against those whom we think erring, and we are not to deal out excommunications and denunciations to those who are
. The work of separation is given to the angels of God, and not
committed into the hands of any man.

 a These references reveal that the wheat and tares are in the church and how they are brought in.

b Page 47:2, reveals that angels will accomplish the separation--not men.

 Read: 3T 266, 267

Testimonies for the Church Volume 3, Page 266-267

Who are standing in the counsel of God at this time? Is it those who virtually excuse wrongs among the professed people of God and who murmur in their hearts, if not openly, against those who would reprove sin? Is it those who take their stand against them and sympathize with those who commit wrong? No, indeed! Unless they repent, and leave the work of Satan in oppressing those who have the burden of the work and in holding up the hands of sinners in Zion, they will never receive the mark of God’s sealing approval. They will fall in the general destruction of the wicked, represented by the work of the five men bearing slaughter weapons. Mark this point with care: Those who receive the

pure mark of truth, wrought in them by the power of the Holy Ghost, represented by a mark by the man in linen, are those “that sigh and that cry for all the
abominations that be done” in the church. Their love for purity and the honor
and glory of God is such, and they have so clear a view of the exceeding
sinfulness of sin, that they are represented as being in agony, even sighing
and crying. Read the ninth chapter of Ezekiel.
But the general slaughter of
all those who do not thus see the wide contrast between sin and righteousness,
and do not feel as those do who stand in the counsel of God and receive the
mark, is described in the order to the five men with slaughter weapons: “Go ye
after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye
pity: slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women:
but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary.”


a That the true people of God are those who recognize sin in the church, stay aloof from it, but speak out against the sins.

b The closing work for the church is the sealing of the 144,000. TM 445.

c This work of the sealing of the 144,000 is “forcibly set forth” by the prophet (Ezekiel), when in vision he saw five men (angels) with slaughter weapons and the sixth with a “writer’s inkhorn.”

d Only those who sigh and cry for the wrongs in the church receive the seal.

e Inspiration itself tells us to read Ezekiel chapter nine.

 An objection: It is often stated that the slaughter of Ezekiel nine transpires during the plagues and /or at the second coming of Christ, based upon this statement found in 3 T 267:0: “They will fall in the general destruction of the wicked. .
This however, could not
be so because:


1. The plagues are very different from the slaughter of Ezekiel nine. See # 14.

 2. When the sentence is quoted in full it would read as follows: “They will fall in the general destruction of the wicked represented by the work of the five men bearing slaughter weapons.” This tells us that this
“general destruction” is that which destroys the “wicked” in the church (Jerusalem)
not the world--They are cut down by the five men (angels)
not by the “vials” of the seven angels in Revelation 16.

 3. The words “general destruction” is used in other portions of Sister E.G. White’s writings and does not refer to the plagues. See GC 26:0 (last sentence of the paragraph).


12. Read: Ezekiel 9

a “The higher gate which lieth toward the north” symbolically represents heaven--where God’s throne is located. (See Ps. 48:1, 2, Isa. 14:13).

b Even though Ezekiel calls them “men” they are in fact angels because they are seen coming from the “north” (heaven). See also Daniel 9:21.

c Only those who “sigh and cry” for the wrongs in the church receive the seal.

d The other five angels are sent by the Lord to slay (physically) those in the church who did not receive the seal.

e The Lord brings this slaughter because the sins in the church are “exceedingly great.”


13. Is This A Literal Slaughter? ---Yes

a No such thing as a spiritual slaughter is recorded anywhere in Scripture. Nobody knows what is a spiritual slaughter.

b Verse 7, says “fill the courts with the slain.”


Read: 5 T 211

Testimonies for the Church Volume 5, Page 211

The class who do not feel grieved over their own spiritual declension, nor mourn over the sins of others, will be left without the seal of God. The Lord commissions His messengers, the men with
slaughtering weapons in their hands: “Go ye after him through the city, and
smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: slay utterly old and
young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man
upon whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary. Then they began at the
ancient men which were before the house.”

Here we see that the church—the Lord’s sanctuary—was the first to feel the stroke of the wrath of God. The ancient men, those to whom God had given great light and who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the people,
had betrayed their trust. They had taken the position that we need not look for
miracles and the marked manifestation of God’s power as in former days. Times
have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and th

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Whoa........that was scary......

(Dan. 2:27, 28). The king listens with solemn attention as every particular of the dream is reproduced; and when the interpretation is faithfully given, he feels that he can rely upon it as a divine revelation. {SL 36.1}

A Separating Message.--.... When the eyes have been enlightened with the spiritual eyesight, then we shall see altogether clearly.
The things of time, and sense, that now attract attention, will lose their value, for there will be disclosed to men, eternal interests.
As God made known His will to the Hebrew captives, to those who were most separate from the customs and practices of a world lying in wickedness, so will the Lord communicate light from heaven to all who will appreciate a "Thus saith the Lord."
To them, He will express His mind.
Those who are least bound up with worldly ideas, are the most separate from display, and vanity, and pride, and love of promotion, who stand forth as His peculiar people, zealous of good works,--to these He will reveal the meaning of His word.
The very first exhibition of God's power to the Hebrew captives was in showing the defective wisdom of the great ones of the earth. The wisdom of men is foolishness with God. The magicians revealed their ignorance of the light before the Lord revealed His wisdom as supreme. The wisdom of human agents who had misappropriated their God-given talents, God showed to be foolishness. {CW 101.2}
If I may...

The original post is copied directly from Shepherd's Rod teaching and can be found in exactly the same form on at least two Rod web sites. IOW this is just a "cut n' paste" directly from a web site. No question is being asked by the OP merely Shepherd's Rod doctrine is being presented. The last sentence of the post is cut off mid-word, implying that: (a) the copy-buffer was full/post limit reached; (b) Jhonalyn did not even check to see whether the whole study was correctly copied or not.

There is nothing to indicate that this is SR teaching, it is just presented as an incomplete study with no reference to its origins.

John P asked Jhonalyn directly if she was SR, and, somewhat typically, did not get a straight answer. The Bible admonishes us in this respect, that our yes should be yes and our no, no - not a fudging and avoidance of a question that requires that you either stand foursquare behind your beliefs or, frankly, you lie.

If Jhonalyn was simply seeking the truth and asking for debate/opinion on the subject raised I would not expect it to be presented in this way. It has been presented as truth. It is not.

As John P said, this is not a question of pre-judging. We regularly have this and other teachings presented on this forum by those who try to avoid admitting that they are SR - sadly, in my experience, dishonesty is a trait regularly found in those who call themselves SR. This is not "new light" worthy of study, this is old error which has been exposed countless times before.

This comment, "So what is true SDA doctrine? I'd say, that which is taught by Bible and EGW, not necessarily though, that which is from the Conference men." is extremely worrying for more than one reason.

SDA doctrine was born out of intense Bible study and every single one of our doctrines is not only confirmed by the Bible but also by SoP. To suggest that the Bible and SoP support doctrines other than the settled doctrines of the SDA church means that "the object of Christ's supreme regard" is in error and that the Lord maintains His church in error.

There is a clear inference that the SDA church holds two types of doctrine - that which is supported by the Bible/SoP and that which is an invention of so-called "Conference men". So, the challenge must be, which of the SDA doctrines is God-inspired and which is man-made?

Following on from that, who, as an honest Bible-believing person, would associate themselves with a church that adds to God's teachings? The form described above is an exact description of the Roman (and other) church and leads down the path of ultimately defining the SDA church as a part of Babylon.

If someone wants to present for consideration the teachings of other churches they should do so in an honest way. Personally, I do not even consider "teachings" that come with a foundation of blatant commandment-breaking. I agree with John P's initial response to Jhonalyn and note her avoidance of an honest answer.

There appears to be a taint of anti-SDAism thinly disguised with a veneer of anti-clericalism and hopefully this thread will be consigned to history in the very near future. Whilst we are instructed to test all things and hold on to that which is truth we are under no obligation to continually entertain error merely because it is presented, particularly when what is presented is not a complete study. Most of the voluminous quotes presented to support entertaining this error do not say what is suggested and do not apply in this instance. It appears rather to be a bolstering of an attempt to re-present the errors of others.

If they were of us they would not have departed from us.
Hi John B

You know there are other churches that would have the leadership say the same about its doctrine -- "born out of intense Bible study".

The mature and honest have no problem examining and perhaps re-examining what they espouse as true, just to make sure that it lines up with all the currently available information, or just from the shear pleasure of the exercise. Even as DSDA (one believing the message of the SR to be true), I do it frequently.

All I wanted to say in the whole however, is that it is provable from what the prophets have left on record, that the Lord requires everyone that is able, to make a complete and personal examination of anything coming from within the Church SDA, presenting itself as a message from Him. Also that if one has come to the place where they believe they have done so, to not prevent or discourage others from prayerfully doing the same, and to be careful not to directly insult anyone (calling them names), especially if they claim to be a Christian.

Those are not the tactics God would have His children use. Professing Christians, SDA even, are not to treat each other so, and I’ll tell you that even among the different groupings of Davidians (ones professing belief in the SR message), there is some great animosity. God is not in favour of any of it.

You see, though one may seem to be (or even be), in error today God (who views the future as easy as the present), may consider such a one, His child and therefore precious. In insulting one of His children, you insult Him. The Lord will correct His own if they need correction, and if we work under the Lord's commission the command is not to be harsh, not to discourage, but to be very kind. Have you never sinned or believed something for a time, that was not true?

God can open the eyes of any. Remember Saul of Tarsus.

We (Christians) are to be known by our love. The command to love your "enemies" if so they (the one that believes differently) be, actually means just that. Such love is to be shown to the one thought to be most unlovable. In fact, that is where love is most needed and most easily seen, and why we are all still alive to this very hour.

It is because God could love and show love to the unlovable.

Love now can be known to be true love, because there is no reason. God's love is given (to you and to me too) for no known reason except for the fact that He is Love. Don't you want to love like that? I know I do. I can easily recognize that I have, and continue to receive so much mercy and grace that as I am aware of it, such makes it easy to be merciful and to give grace to others.

This is what I believe God wants me to be, and what Jesus taught and practised. If therefore we see Jesus seeming to be harsh (as in Mat.23 KJV.), think again. He did it with the greatest of love and let us not forget. He had a prophet’s license. We are to go by what He told us – you know, go the extra mile, “turn the other cheek” etc.

We need to consider now, has this one told the truth in this, or is what he has herein stated just another un-provable, un-scriptural deception?

Yes, “truth” or “error”, that is the question.

What type of character do you think we’ll be taking to heaven, but the one we develop here? What are you developing? is another question we all need to ask. If at all, err on the side of kindness for it is nearer to love.

Happy to honestly answer any questions about the SR or any other topic.

Take Care

Hi W. Spence,

Of course SR believers will think that what is posted above is the truth - it is the stand of their denomination.

I have not noticed that any insults are being thrown, unless one thinks that being identified as SR is an insult. (I have to note that the avoidance of being identified as SR by many of that denomination gives me the distinct impression that many are ashamed. I have not encountered any other denomination whose members present their teachings shrouded in dishonesty the way the majority of SRs that I have met do.)

I see no reason to suppose that these matters have not been studied out by anyone who has responded in this thread. Dan.2 is taught as a matter of course at Evangelistic meetings, Daniel Seminars, Revival meetings and in local churches. What is presented above is not what the denomination teaches and, personally, I reject it on Biblical grounds. Neither is it presented as a discussion on the topic, rather it is presented as a definitive Bible study, supported by EGW. Again, there is the inherent dishonesty in the post.

This is an SDA forum, not an SR forum. If I want to explore SR beliefs there are SR web sites that I can go to and read them. If one must post SR beliefs on this site they should state plainly what they are doing (cf. par.3 above).

That is not to say that no alternatives to SDA understanding should be presented here. Rather that they should be presented honestly. You open yourself up as a Davidian - that's good. It shows the courage of your convictions and it means that there can be an honest dialogue. In my experience most of your fellow-believers at the very least pause for too long when asked if they are SR.

This is not a new subject/post. Davidians and others regularly post SR studies on this forum without stating what they are. (Search the forum and I'm sure that you will find the threads and the responses contained within.) I find this to be dishonest. That is not an insult per se but rather a statement of fact.

The very fact of making divisive, no, insulting, statements about the leadership or "Conference men" (whatever that means) betrays not a call to Bible study but rather an inference that the SDA denomination is following the leadings of men, not God. "Pot calling the kettle black" is the phrase that springs to mind considering what has been said in this thread.

The OP made no reference to the source of the study and this inherent dishonesty negates further debate. I will restate that, IMO, the responses were right.
Hi John B

I do not understand your last sentence. You may want to explain.

[Understand that I am SDA to the core, with many relatives and friends within the denomination, and that the SR is a message and not another denomination, for Biblically their can be no other to come.]

If you keep talking of "dishonesty", perhaps I'll relate some of the stories of Pastors that I know, and things I have seen with my own eyes and heard with my own ears.

The things you are calling dishonest may classify as such:

Isa. 29:20, 21 KJV.

"For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off:
That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought

How loud thou protesteth!

See Christ here?

John 7:8-13 KJV.

"Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come.
9 When he had said these words unto them, he abode still in Galilee.
10 But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.
11 Then the Jews sought him at the feast, and said, Where is he?
12 And there was much murmuring among the people concerning him: for some said, He is a good man: others said, Nay; but he deceiveth the people.
13 Howbeit no man spake openly of him for fear of the Jews."

Now while we may venture to say those others that spoke not of Him openly are at fault, dare we say so of our Lord who went up "in secret"? Might not the leaders (and you also living then), have occasion against Him, calling Him "dishonest"? What are we not understanding in all this?

Jesus would say to you: "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." John 7:24 KJV.

See now, it is for this very reason that many do not come out at the first and say. They wish to give the individual a fair chance to consider the points on their own merit, because such prejudice is associated with the name SR, by many a folk that have spread falsehoods over the years.

I am sure Jesus had His reason also. It is not a sin necessarily, to keep quiet, but it is to speak that which is not true or to attempt to turn the truth into a lie. Do you remember a story in the Bible about 12 "spies", or about a prophet (Elisha), a king, Dothan, chariots of fire and men being led to a certain city while the Lord blinded their eyes? Honest or dishonest?

It is best not to go in that direction for the God of heaven only, knoweth man's heart.

It would be best to refrain from calling any "a deceiver" (the "insult"), since we know not their intention. Yes, we need to stop dealing with personalities and deal with the information, since all have sinned.

Ballam's story in the Bible proves much. For one, it tells us clearly that simply because the messenger is corrupt, does not mean the words of His message are untrue. The one does not automatically prove the other.

So once again, it is foolish to hang on personalities and ignore the information.

Thus being said, I know that the message of the SR is not for everyone, and if you believe that you have given it sufficient trial be at rest. What will be, will be; it is what it is.

It is not my job to explain the message in its entirety to any (God will not permit it), but only to tell you what I have seen, and to urge that a close look be made. Since you say you have done so, fair enough. It is now between you and your God.

If you have any direct question however, feel free to e-mail or call toll free 1 866 356-0707.

Happy am I.

Take Care



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