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THERE ARE A NUMBER OF PERSONS WITHIN AND WITHOUT THE SDA CHURCH WHO ARE STILL CONFUSED AS TO WHETHER THE HOLY SPIRIT IS:

A PART OF THE GODHEAD

A PERSON OR A FORCE

PLEASE EXPLAIN SO THAT WE CAN HELP OTHERS TO UNDERSTAND.

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Do what's best for your health, but remember whenever you post here, on an Adventist website created for Adventists, you will be challenged. We shouldn't allow lies, deception, and falsehood to go unchallenged. Some unsuspecting babe in Christ might actually believe your heresy. " As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!" You are teaching a false doctrine which your got from men. For 43 years you have been taught these errors. Right now these errors are ingrained in your very core. Allowing you on this site can be beneficial if your would only humble yourself and allow the holy Spirit to do its work.
Peace


Leslie Ann wrote: "believing in the trinity is denying that jesus is truly the son of god...just as the jews....if jesus is truly the son of god then he cannot be co eternal....the holy spirit could be a force, presence, and still be referred to as he/him because both the father"


Hey Sister Leslie Ann, how have you been? Hope all is well.. :)


What I found is that the definition of the word trinity is fine, but the word itself is never used in the Bible.


I won't use the word trinity, I use the GODHEAD, which is the Father, Son ,and Holy Spirit. Believing in the GODHEAD is not denying Jesus is truly the Son of GOD.

We agree, He, the Holy Spirt, the third person of the GODHEAD is a force, presence, and yes, the Father and Son uses the same Holy Spirit.


I'm not sure if you believe the Holy Spirit is the third person of the GODHEAD, but thats the SDA Church teaching.


What do you mean Jesus is not co eternal? Can you elaborate please?



Blessings!

Hi Reasoning,

Leslie Ann has correctly stated, "believing in the trinity is denying that Jesus is truly the Son of God.”  This is clearly shown in the bible.

 Romans 8:16-17 says,

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

 

The saints are never joint-heirs with the Holy Spirit, why? Because it is not a God person, only the Elohim is God (God, and Christ) as shown in John 1:1.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

Claiming the Holy Spirit as a God person, destroys the true Godhead which is the Father and the Son, and it denies us our sonship in the Godhead through Christ.

Galatians 4:7 speaks to this again very clearly saying, “Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.”

 

Roman 8:16 says, The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit…”        

 

Job 8:32 explains how this is so, and says

But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

 

The Spirit of God, the Spirit of Holiness is the Power of His Will, the pure consciousness of God self which gives us understanding through our own human spirit which is the image of God we are created in. So, this should clear to anyone.  It is not a God person, but God"s power acting upon God’s will.

Peace


Hi Gene, I don't know about the word trinity, it's not used in the Bible so I don't use it, however the GODHEAD has a third person along with the Father and Son, all three has names that we should baptized in


Matt.28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


He, the Father has a name and is a person... He, the Son has a name and is a person... and He, the Holy Spirit has a name and is a person.

The SDA Church doesn't teach the GODHEAD is three Gods, but three persons that is the GODHEAD!


I understand you believe the Holy Spirit is not a person, but maybe trying to comprehend His nature has gotten you mixed up. We agree the Holy Spirit is the Spirt of the Father and Son, but the Bible refers to Holy Spirit as Him and He, and He is still a person. How can that be? I don't know the how, but I know what is... I guess We just have to agree to disagree.


Do agree with Leslie Ann when she says


Leslie Ann wrote: "if jesus is truly the son of god then he cannot be co eternal...."



Gene, do you agree with her?



Blessings!

Reasoning,

I’m not sure what she meant by "if jesus is truly the son of god then he cannot be co eternal...."  I’m waiting for her to answer, but I do agree with her as I have noted.

The Holy Spirit is referred to “he” but it is also referred to as “it” and as water and oil and as a dove.  No, I am not mixed up, the bible describes who God is but people like yourself is afraid to let go of these false teaching. You cannot show a Holy Spirit God in the bible, because there is none. Only the Father and the Son is God and this is why we are heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ.

“Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.”

Peace


Gene wrote: "The Holy Spirit is referred to “he” but it is also referred to as “it” and as water and oil and as a dove."



Yes, but that doesn't negate the fact that the Holy Spirit is referred to as He.




Gene wrote: "No, I am not mixed up, the bible describes who God is but people like yourself is afraid to let go of these false teaching. You cannot show a Holy Spirit God in the bible, because there is none. Only the Father and the Son is God and this is why we are heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ."




Right, that's why I said we have to agree to disagree. I believe you have a false teaching, a non SDA view, you believe the same towards me. I don't know about a Holy Spirit God, I know the Holy Spirit is the third person of the GODHEAD. Just One GOD!


That's why He's the third person mention amongst the names we should baptized in...



Matt.28:19 Go Ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


He, the Father has a name and is a person... He, the Son has a name and is a person... and He, the Holy Spirit has a name and is a person.

But hey, believe what you will... I'll stick to the SDA teaching on this.



Blessings!

Gene

The dove came direct from the throne it was the Father himself taking on the form of a dove meaning it was not really a dove but a form

Reasoning

Matthew 28:19 was a text altered go research it...the original text stated to be baptized in the name of Jesus....Jesus is the one who died for us not the Father not a Holy Spirit.

Look through the book of acts and you would see that is only in the name of Jesus the apostles baptized people.

That text was altered by rome its there for people to research and they admit to doing it

Are we to believe the whole First Century Church disobeyed Jesus in what to use as the name in prayer? No, and secondly it is in the NAME singular, not NAMES.
TRINITARIANS CHANGED THE WORD OF GOD to fit their thiefology, no misspelling here.

Jason nice to see you still have your spunk!!

I do not believe the Holy Spirit is the third person of the Godhead and yes it is sda teaching but it was not always so...

The holy spirit is used by the Father and Son yes we agree on this but its Jesus himself in another form not another person.

Jesus cannot be the son of God and still be coeternal...He had to have had a beginning 

If we believe Father and Son are both co eternal and self existent then we are denying the father and son relationship...

Leslie Ann I see you have a different theory of faith regarding the Holy Spirit...

Perhaps you might like to discuss why this is so....I am kind and gentle...my email address is rthom7@yahoo.com.au

I grew up reading my paper KJV Bible with a paper concordance just like any normal Christian might. One day while attending a country church I was invited by the elder to some secret meetings. It was about James Stump who came from USA to Australia in 2003 to speak to us in a humble way about the Holy Spirit as a force of the Father, thus there are only two members of the Godhead. I read his large paper book and was struck by how little I knew about Scripture. So I prayed to God for an answer to this question. God impressed me to buy an electronic Bible for $20. And when it arrived I discovered I could read Hebrew and Greek in interlinear ways easily and find the read Hebrew meanings of Scripture. After some hundreds of hours of study and research, I was ready to answer my Elder, but he refused to listen. I sent my child like studies to my scholars in the Church and they threw out my conclusions (this was in 2007)

The question I asked GOD was where are you described as three co-eternal Beings in the oldest book of he Bible, so I can show others there was always three co-eternal Beings since Creation of Earth ever happened, so refute the Restitution Ministries theory of faith?

God gave me this answer:

Job 40:1 ¶ Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said,
 2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.

Here we see "YHWH" "Eloah" and "Shadday"

http://spiritualsprings.org/ss-931.htm Hebrew study of Shadday

http://spiritualsprings.org/ss-1069.htm What SOP thinks about Shadday

http://spiritualsprings.org/ss-1407.htm A detailed SOP study of the Shadday

These links will get you started on differences between our theories....

God bless your studies

Your welcome to bring any SOP of Scripture quote to AO if your wish...

Shalom

Thank you for sharing.  I praise God that He personally instructs us and will teach us and inform us of things that few others know or understand. It does not matter if we are a janitor or farm laborer God himself will teach us and it is sufficient that only we know what he has taught us, even if no one or very few understand. Later our faith may be strengthened by what we know. 

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