something else to read about!!
blessings brothers and sisters!!
Thanks Victor, excellent pdf!
I didn't see this post and it until now, and downloaded it for reference.
Truth is Truth no matter who doesn't believe it. Error is Error no matter how many billions believe it.
It's been quite a while since I posted last...just thought I would see what progress in Jesus we are making...
I see confusion of the Person of the Holy Spirit... true, the term "trinity" is not a Hebrew word, and thus we should not use this term to describe "Elohiym" which we commonly translate as "God" whatever that word means, but in the NT the term "Elohiym" is broken down into three functional descriptors, using another word never used in the OT. Hence the confusion in the former rains of Scriptures and the different presentation in the latter rain of Scriptures as the NT writes:
It is as James says regarding the "mystery"....
Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God (elohiym) , who created all things by Jesus Christ:
In this verse we have the term "elohiym". I do not use Greek words in the NT but Hebrew terms, to line up the former and later rains of teachings which correct consistent harmony. The Greek is a translation of the Hebrew anyway.
Notice it says elohiym created all things via Jesus.
Eph 3:14 ¶ For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
This verse breaks down the mystery into three functional descriptors of Elohiym, namely Father, Son-Jesus and Holy Spirit. And this is a simile of the NT term "family".
A earthly family consists of Dad, Mum and children.
The heavenly elohiym consists of Father, Mother and Son-Jesus.
Remember in the Genesis account, elohiym created mankind in the image of elohiym, gender male and gender female. We know from Jesus statements that procreation genes are switched off in heaven, so what makes this Being called mankind, into two persons?
There are two Hebrew word for love, not one as we assume, so elohiym is showing mankind, the Being, that a Being is composed of two functional ways of loving, the maleness love person (Ahab) and the femaleness love kind (Ahabuh). Thus mankind consists of two personalities of love, and these are separate persons.
The Hebrew term father means (ab) the strong home, meaning the strong one in the home.
The Hebrew term mother means (am) the strong flow in the home. These are functional action words describing love working in a family.
The Hebrew word for Jesus is both (bn) the home across the nations, thus Jesus continues the love flowing over the nations, as a redeemer of those wanting to be His children in a divine family, and Jesus is also termed (br) the home head, where Jesus is the head of a new family, and hence a king of a kingdom, the redeemed....
Many of the comments I read seem confused over the term "medium" or "agency", the Holy Spirit channels the Father's flow, or the Son's flow, so we have "His flow", but if you wish to find the Holy Spirit acting on it's own, you find the Person is a "her", otherwise in a community setting which elohiym is, the maleness takes precedence over the femaleness. I will stop here for one cannot change one's world view, without God doing it for you, and more blessed are showers, rather than floods.
something to read: 1. godhead-trinity-debate-terry-hill.pdf
you can check this link too.
God Bess you all!!
Thanks for the excellent links. I learned way back in 1975 after six months of intensive study the truth about the so called "Trinity." Another excellent resource is the most extensive book One God & One Lord by John Lynn and John Schoenheit that covers all the controversial scriptures and proofs etc, with excellent Biblical scholarship which unfortunately is often lacking in many denominations etc.:
There is two editions, either would be excellent, I purchased the Kindle 5th Edition. By the way, Schoenheit's ministry Spirit And Truth Ministry is excellent with their Revised English Version, a work of 14 years so far, and the book The Gift of Holy Spirit is the best book I have seen on the subject. There is very little I disagree with, as I estimate about 98% accuracy. I disagree on a few issues, but considering human frailty, their research is excellent.
Schoenheit and associates do understand how the holy spirit works both in theory and practice (not Kundalini please).
The Links to their books:
The Book on Prophesy also has information lost for 2000 years about prophesy, as well as the other materials there;
The loss of the truths and practical application of the Word by walking by the spirit was lost when all Asia turned away from Paul, as well as the false teachings and doctrines that entered the body of Christ and then the take down by the Catholic Church since Constantine's corruption and control in 325 AD declaring Jesus as God and the Council in 380 AD when the holy spirit (the gift of God) was declared God also thus the so called "Trinity."
The loss of the sacred secrets (Musterion in Greek) given to Paul by revelation of Jesus Christ is most significant and the body of Christ has not regained for the most part the greatness seen in the Book of Acts and the First Century Church.
Men will hold to their religion and not search for the truth and dig, dig, and research more for the most part.
Anthony F. Buzzard and Charles F. Hunting did excellent Book "The Doctrine of the Trinity; Christianity's Self-Inflicted Wound" as well as other works;
Religion causes men to close their eyes to the real truth as they are content with the system they have been taught. Truth breaks the bonds of lies and hypocrisy. If one is really searching for the truth, they will find it as God assists one in such. There is ample evidence against the Trinitarian doctrine both in the scriptures and in history if one is open-minded enough to receive the real truth.
Just researching the events of 325 and 380 AD at the Councils will reveal how the Trinity evolved, as it was never a doctrine or belief of the Hebrews nor of the First Century Church, nor of Jesus himself even. All three, the Hebrews, The First Century Church and Jesus himself would have considered any such idea totally alien and totally heretic and "doctrines of Devils."
The wound of the Trinity as stated in Anthony Buzzard's Title is a great wound indeed, that sucked the great truth and power out of the church, leaving it weak, ineffective and lacking in the power and truth that turned the world upside down in the Book of Acts.
Almost no one is interested in the manifestations of holy spirit, nor in the truth about the Trinity. These are sad commentaries of the great delusion and apostasy that has overtaken the majority of the body of Christ or maybe we should just say of "Christianity."
No Trinity you say Jesus said this about baptism and teaching:
Mat 28:18 Jesus came to them and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.
There is no record in The Book of Acts nor in the Church Epistles which are directly written to the body of Christ of anyone using "In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."
Here are evidence and logic:
So, James, you trump Jesus with Paul then? Have you ever heard about reconciling texts?
James shows some interesting research
Another reason that Matt. 28:18 disproves the Trinity is that if "God" is made up of the
Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, then by definition Jesus cannot have "all authority." By virtue of being "God," the Father and Holy Spirit would both have equal authority with Jesus. In fact, it is part of the standard definition of the Trinity that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are "co-equal." The only way Jesus could be given all authority would be if he were not God, but the Messiah, God’s chosen ruler, and the Father had entrusted him with all authority, just as God gave Jesus the authority to judge on the Day of Judgment (John 5:22).
19Go, 20and (teach) them to carry out all the things which I have commanded you forever."
Page 19 of 23
The omission of the command to baptize and the Trinitarian formula in the Shem-Tob
manuscript contributes to our conclusion that the Trinitarian formula did not exist in the
original manuscript of Matthew, but was a later addition.
I get the idea that "baptise in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost" is added to Matthew.
When Jesus says all power is given me.... this shows the incomplete actions in Hebrew verbs being complete after the Cross of Jesus, as noun forms. For example, The Father sets us His Son as King, is given a kingdom, the Cross is now complete with its beauty for sin-offerings complete, so all power for salvation through Jesus can be given by Elohiym. This does NOT prove Jesus is not of the Elohiym kind.
Elohiym becomes a simile of a family only in the NT, never quoted in the OT, because in the NT Jesus becomes a "ben" as well as a "bar", meaning the "Son continues the family of heaven's love" and the "Son becomes the Heavenly family head of a redeemed race made a little lower than Elohiym". Again this only can begin after the Cross experience, where life was exchanged for life.
I like what Dan says the word "trinity" is not a Hebrew word, and thus should not be used in doctrine because the term is a dogma invented by men. Why don't we say Elohiym is a word more simile to the word family, and keep things simple?
Thanks for your comment Rob As I understand it James do not think that the Holy Spirit is a living being he thinks it is just Gods force similar to J W To me you have only to read a few texts to see that the Holy Spirit is a Living Person Co-equal to the Father and Son. As we know the nature of God is hard to understand for sinful beings like us, but we do know some attributes of the Family of God as they are for example Co-eternal
Jesus does not know when he is returning but must receive the order from his Father The One True God. Therefore Jesus cannot be God, unless you think God is mentally ill, supposedly having three personalities (multiple). The Messiah (second Adam) has to be human, and no human can be God. That is why the Jews reject Jesus because of the pagan doctrine called the Trinity, a doctrine of Devils brought in gradually by the Catholic Church. Sad but true.