The Holy Spirit in current lesson 2017
The current lesson is about the Holy Spirit. Its direct trinitarian slant has brought up some animated discussions in some quarters. Here is the preface.
How does this new doctrine of the trinity harmonize with the pioneer view?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by JohnB on
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Please explain how this is a new doctrine.
You refer to "the pioneer view", what do you mean by that?
Why should it matter what view people held, isn't the Bible the ruler by which we measure our beliefs?
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Permalink Reply by Jason M. on
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Ellen White helped in removing the blinders off the pioneers on this subject, but some individuals still want to hold on to error. The lesson is very pertinent in destroying the heresies held by some on the subject of the Holy Spirit.
The Lesson does a great job on this subject...
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Permalink Reply by Dan on
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The trinity doctrine is not new as such, but in the Adventist church it is only in 1980 that it became a fundamental belief. Adventist pioneers including EG White did not have it although the trinity doctrine was in the Catholic church and the churches most of the pioneers left (Baptist and Methodist mainly). The Bible does not have the word trinity, much less the trinity doctrine.
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If we prove to you that Ellen White believed in the Trinity, would you then accept it?
Would you believe if we also prove it from the Bible?
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Permalink Reply by James French on
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The Catholic Church killed anyone that didn't believe in the trinity, as well as anyone that spoke in tongues or any other manifestation of Holy Spirit was deemed to be of the Devil. It was a religious monopoly or tyranny.
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Dan, please clarify exactly what you mean. You are speaking in vague terms... what do you mean by "doctrine of the trinity". After all, if you don't know what you are arguing against there can be no discussion.
You rightly say the word "trinity" is not in the Bible. So what? Neither are the words "incarnation", "divinity", "omnipotent", "omniscient" and many more. Are you suggesting that we are only limited in theological discussion to the words found in the English translation of the Bible?
So, please clarify what you mean. Are you suggesting that all trinitarian beliefs are inventions of the Roman Catholic Church?
You are using a word with a variety of definitions so please clarify which definition you are applying to the word "trinity".
As to whether the Bible contains a trinity doctrine, it all turns on how you define that doctrine.
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The founders of SDA were not trinitarians. The believers in the book of Acts were not trinitarians, they did everything in the name of Jesus Christ. Trinity crept into the early church and into the SDA.
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What do you mean by trinitarian? I wish someone would please define which definition of trinity is being referred to.
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Permalink Reply by Jack C Chaffin Jr on
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They also were not Sabbath-keepers. So what?
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Dan, you are right on. Even the Catholic Encyclopedia states that the trinity WAS NOT A DOCTRINE OF PRIMITIVE CHRISTIANITY. This pagan doctrine crept into the church but was sanctioned in part that Jesus is God in 325 AD at the Nicene Council and enforced by Constantine by his emperor's sword at the throats of the church. Then in 380 AD at the Council of Constantinople the holy spirit was declared to be God also.
The Hebrews, Jesus himself, Paul etc. and the scriptures all held that "Hear (Sh'ma) O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord." Deut. 6:4. ("Hear, O Israel, Jehovah (the Self and ever existing One), our Elohim is one Jehovah." This is what set the Hebrews apart from the polytheism of the pagan world. No where and at no time did the early church do anything in the name of The Father, Son and Holy Spirit of Matthew 28:19. Rather that verse should read in my name (Jesus Christ). Even the great Bible researcher E.W. Bullinger, who was a trinitarian (who wasn't?) states in note for this verse "...the name. Sing. Not 'names.'"
Jesus Christ is seated on the right hand of God, how then is he God? To be beside oneself is a term used for the insane.
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