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After participating in this discussion blog for several months, I've become discerned that many of my seven day Adventist Brethren are unaware of what the new covenant means. So I ask the question; What does the new covenant mean to seventh day aventist in the context of Hebrews 8: 7-13.

 

 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second. 8 For he finds fault with them when he says: "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 9 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt. For they did not continue in my covenant, and so I showed no concern for them, declares the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 11 And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more." 13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

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Ignoring, purposefully, any of the commandments to synchronize with the world, would mean we don't truly posses the fruits of the Spirit.  The Sabbath was set aside long before there was any set of commandments, Mr. Montano.

Thank you for this clear message Leon. You are right. May I add to it the message I have gained from my favourite scripture, John chapters 13 and  14. In chapter 13 and 14 Jesus gives the commands to do as He did and that we are to treat others as He treats us. Then He goes on to say that if we love Him we will keep these commands of His and He will then send us the Holy Spirit to dwell within us to be our comforter and to lead us to Jesus.

We are unfortunately born with a sinful nature. Our natural inclinations are toward sin. Sin being more attractive to us than the right. In the sermon on the mount Jesus makes it clear that our very thoughts are sinful. Not one of us is without sin save Jesus. The prophet Isaiah puts it this way, Our righteousness is as filthy rags. We need the cloak of Christ's righteousness. Once we accept Jesus as our Lord and Saviour, we are saved. Remember Jesus says that the works of God for us to do is to believe in the one God sent, which is Jesus. Once we believe we are saved. As was the thief on the cross. Nothing we do other than believing and thus relying on Christ for our salvation can save us. We can however lose this gift of grace if we deny our Lord.

Regarding Sabbath keeping. If we are under conviction which comes from the Holy Spirit, to keep the Sabbath, then not to do so would be wrong. As to disregard any other Holy spirit led conviction would be wrong. How do we know if our convictions are of God or not, it is by His word, for His word is truth. What is His word, it is Jesus Christ. John chapter 1. But none of the commands found in the moral law can save us. For none of these laws can be kept by a sinful being, as our thoughts are sin. The moment we wake up on Sabbath morning, we only have to think about ourselves or anything else other than be totally 100% focused on God and we have sinned. Hence we are totally useless as law keepers. We are totally reliant on God and His righteousness. It is all of God and nothing of our doing.

Beautifully written. The heart of the Bible. Thank you.

my heart thrills with the answers

and i will share ....

Abraham experience of salvation

Abram believed the LORD, and HE credited it to him as righteousness. Gen 15:16

(that is whereits at)

wow even back then!

praise GOD

If you have  a look at the so called old covenant, it was based on grace, and you were saved by faith on the grace future actions of a Saviour, however how can one demonstrate ones love unless he does actions of love?

How would you know a body was alive and loving unless it responded with love?  The other premise one has to establish is when was the old covenant formed, and define the terms of what you mean ....

When Adam sinned Jesus came down and gave Him a teaching system of salvation now that He had become a sinner...this Hebrew word for describing this system of salvation is called "torah" which does not mean "law" but means to show the way to go, what a teacher does with teaching students....

A covenant was a party of relationships based on the cutting of flesh...the flesh was cut to show the penalty if the other party violated the terms of the covenant, and each party took parts of the flesh as reminders of agreement.

When Adam sinned a Lamb was cut up and bloodshed for his sinning. This became one of many agreements based on relationships for showing mankind how to be saved. The Agreement was based on faith on the gracious actions of a Saviour.

Typically SDA people divide torah into categories of teachings so we can avoid certain teachings above others. One wonders if this is the correct method of dealing with the teachings, making some have a more special place in our hearts than others...Again did Jesus ever see His teachings in this manner ?

Some of us like to think many torah teachings were abolished on the Cross, thus making aspects of Jesus salvation completed by Jesus, and certainly many teachings of Jesus as a Lamb slain were completed by the real Lamb taking away my sins, but does that mean the teachings were abolished? No it means way we guard those teachings has changed, not the fact we no longer need to act on them. Because we assume much of the torah teachings were abolished SDA people have a love system that is reduced to a mere 2 to 3 hour show up on Sabbath pews, speak some secular stuff on social topics, sing a few hymns and go home to their houses and forget about Jesus until the weekly assembly next week....is this a demonstration of love ? No it not.

First of all the Home Church is supposed to be the most active Church on the earth....the Dad is the Pastor there, the Mum and missionary leader, the children and neighbours, the congregation....How many of the torah teachings do we show as love in action? In other words are we loving others as Jesus loves us ? Do we give away our food? Do we eat to God's glory? DO we fast and mediate on His Name ?Do we pray for power to heal others ? Many of the Christians get confused by following torah teaching without Christ is the same as showing love without love in us ? This is called legalism....its actually Baal worship. Doing love in human strength is not love at all...

I would love us to guard all the torah teachings were ever possible as our culture in our Government lands allow, but only because they describe the lack of love we are showing....but this is a waste of time if our love we already have is so poor...

The new covenant is really called a re-newed covenant.... in Hebrew thinking the new moon is like a new covenant, but the new moon is not brand new each month, but renewed each month....its a cycle of relationship changes and character development....

Despite our wrestling of NT Scriptures, Paul was never anti-torah, but He did fight legalism.... Many see SDA culture as a cult because it is steeped in legalism, it has many rules that do not demonstrate love, but only a special class of people....this has to change....

The primary dealing of Jesus on earth changing the direction of the torah was to show the way to love's source...

not to abolish the teachings that speak about that love....

An example of torah....

No where in the ten commandments do we find thou shalt not commit sex with animals, our children and look at porn...yet in the judgements and in the Leviticus teachings we find finer details describing the attitude that our love should make relationships not break them...

 

Thus all torah teachings are helpful is describing love in action....the Hebrew word "grace" means primarily "beauty" and on its own something beautiful means nothing to nobody...Jesus did not look beautiful in outward appearance on the earth....not should we....yet his beauty does not come from what we see, but what we do....

Abraham ran to Jesus and bowed down and, if my Lord finds favour with me, do not pass me by, let me make some food for you, shelter your hot head and cool your feet....that is beauty in action, being kind and hospitable 

and is the action meaning of grace....a term that show how one is kind for those who do not deserve kindness...

What do people see in us ? Character is not something we see, it is the result of things we do in the presence of others, love in action

Thus torah is eternal and all of the teachings describing this love is still useful to us and helpful to us...

Shalom

Hello Rob

The new covenant is really called a re-newed covenant.... in Hebrew thinking the new moon is like a new covenant, but the new moon is not brand new each month, but renewed each month....its a cycle of relationship changes and character development....

Where do you get this?

By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Help me reconcile the bible with your statement.

Leon

Leon

Because you refuse to open your eyes. Rob is right the new covenant was before the old. Do you study this Quarters SS lessons? I think you would find many answers in there.

Herbert study the scriptures for the Hebrew word chadesh and see for yourself what the word means....

The verse you refer to is in Hebrews

Heb 8:6 ¶ But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

These verses show the context is about Jesus having a better ministry in the temple in heaven, from which the older ministry was based....the terms old and new are assumed to refer to covenant (no Hebrew word is there) it refers to the better ministry of the covenant...

Notice the verse Paul quotes

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new "chadash"  covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Notice this promise is a renewed covenant, not a brand new covenant...the torah is written on their hearts as the older one was, or should have been, but the method of the ministry is better

instead of faith in types pointing to Jesus, we have the real thing of Jesus and His ministry in His temple in heaven, hence no real change in covenant in terms of salvation, just how the salvation is executed

Ex 1:8 ¶ Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph.

This in context means a brand new king over Egypt

Ps 144:9 ¶ I will sing a new song unto thee, O God: upon a psaltery and an instrument of ten strings will I sing praises unto thee.

Do believers have to sing brand new different songs every time to God, or have we introduced a broad meaning to chadesh, the idea to renew ones love each time in song?

Ec 1:10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

The verse scoffs the idea of things being brand new or every renewed?

Isa 42:9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.

Here do we see brand new things or a renewal of things?

Isa 65:17 ¶ For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Does this mean a brand new universe and a brand new earth during creation after sin is no more? Or does it mean the old earth upon which the city sits after the 1000 days, sits on the old earth, and it is renewed in creation? Meaning the earth is renewed back to the original Edenic state, not a brand new state using brand new earth material. 

Jer 31:22 How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man.

Is this a brand new miracle in relationships, or a renewal in the relationship, because God is in the mix ?

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Is this a brand new different salvation system or simply a renewal of the older one ?

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Here is the same Hebrew words, but translated into Greek...Paul wrote it originally in Hebrew....when we become believers is our character changed brand new upon conversion? or it is renewed daily slowly as we become changed by beholding Jesus?

When you study Hebrew words, such as chadesh, its important you study EVERY single verse for all contexts before you decide what the word means....

You see "new" does not fit all contexts, but renewed does...renewed can also mean new....

Hope this helps....

Just imagine what other denominations say...Jesus changed his torah teachings of salvation ? Why would GOD do that ? God does not change....surely Jesus would set up a salvation system based on himself, as the Lamb of God, but showed his believers the depth of love in various ways....in time, space and objects lessons...I do not see anything brand new about salvation only a renewal in the ways Jesus has shown His salvation over the years since first showing it to Adam

Shalom

In summary you are indicating there is no new covenant of the Spirit, but one of a second ministry of judgement?

So being born of the Spirit is apart from the new covenant? This is why many of us are caught in the trap of legalism.

The salvation system cannot be brand new Hebert, you know that, otherwise Adam was saved differently from Moses and Moses was saved differently from Paul. We are all saved by faith in the grace of Jesus, and that has never changed for sinners since Adam....the only things that has changed is the way the salvation system was empowered....today the Holy Spirit is now able to empower us more than in Abraham's time because Jesus the Lamb has now been glorified to save sinners from sinning....and thus the prince of this world has been defeated....until Jesus died on the cross, GOD had no  real to claim sinners as his own, even though He took Enoch to heaven, purely on the merit of Jesus being successful, but that was a great risk of love.

Jesus His Son could have sinned, but He didn't....

However the Jewish economy as EGW described did pass away forever, because the real system of salvation that replaced the older Jewish one is based on the same torah teachings Jesus had given to us from the beginning...however there were many changes because of a change in priesthood, temple location, and so forth...

Even the word Israel was a type for those saved, not those biologically born as Israel, but those grafted in become Israel spiritually....this is the renewed covenant aspect Jesus came to show old Israel....do we say old Israel cannot be saved ? No , God has  not forgotten Israel, but He has also not forgotten those who become grafted in as Israel, meaning us as Gentiles.

Only Israel is saved into the Kingdom of Jesus, and we who are Gentiles are grafted in to become spiritual Israel....this is the renewed covenant, the process of salvation has broadened in its scope and perhaps spiritual dimension, but the method of salvation has not changed.... 

Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

This verse speaks of the renewed covenant of salvation more than any other verse...the blood of animals could not save, but Jesus blood could, and thus since the Cross salvation in Jesus is now more glorified than before the cross...

Hope this helps

SHalom

Great Post Rob thank you

Rob salvation is for all time,  and for all people. You are correct in indicating that new new covenant is our redemption. This redemption canceled the old covenant and made it obsolete.

in speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

Under the new covenant we don't live under the letter, but the Spirit of the law. We have freedom of Spirit to leave the old covenant and enter into the new. This means we worship God in Spirit not according to the letter. This is freedom from the rules governing ceremonial service, and the symbolic passed to the real event of Christ death. We now submit to the will of the Spirit (born again,) and not to our internal sinful nature, nor to the pressures of the world around us. We are obligated to God, not to man or man made rules.

This does not mean that there was no value in the old covenant, but it is inferior to the new. And we must give Christians the freedom to follow God as the Spirit leads, not according to tradition or pressure. We cannot form a hierarchy of sin, determining that some acts are worse or more important than others. And the proof of Christ is not in obedience to the law (which we cannot do on our own,) but in submission to the Holy Spirit, and in the display of the Character of God in our lives. This is a substantial and more meaningful form of religious practice.

This is my understanding, not my opinion, and I might add I am not in isolation in my belief.

Some of my SDA brethren are afraid of the New covenant because they think that it threatens the Sabbath or other old covenant beliefs like unclean meats. However, I contend that the new covenant my invalidate the Sunday law belief, but does not invalidate the seventh day. In following the Spirit Christians will follow his will to spend time with him, and display love and honor for him. I would presume this is pleasing the Spirit. However, this doe not mean that a misinterpretation would result in death, because the weightier matter is the display of Christian character in service and in behavior (love.)

Leon

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