I was doing a study to write a outline of the foundational pillars of Adventism. Everyone seems to have a personal view of what they entail but limited support for it. What SOP or writings in church periodicals has everyone on this important issue as I have the following pillars.....
The investigative judgment
The sanctuary service
The perpetuity of the Law of God
The faith of Jesus
The Three Angels' Messages
The seventh-day Sabbath
The state of the dead
The special gift of prophecy (or the Testimony of Jesus).
Gene asked: "Jesus was exalted to the right hand of God on the throne (Mark16:19); where does the Holy Spirit sit?"
Does the Bible tells us that? I don't think so... But that has nothing to do with what we are talking about. We are trying to come to an agreement that the Holy Spirit is a person. You seem to agree the Holy Spirit is a person.
Gene wrote: "The person of the Holy Spirit is that of God, because the Spirit is God. This is exactly what Romans. 8:11 is telling us."
I'm not concerned with where He sits, His image, what form is He , for me that is concerning myself with His nature. The Father is a person or being, the Son is person, and the Holy Spirit is a person.
Gene asked: "The quote by EGW seems to be a contradiction. If The nature of the Holy Spirit is a mystery, how can she say the Holy Spirit is a person or that there is a Trio of powers in heaven; why wouldn’t she just say it’s a mystery?"
Your confusing His nature with the obvious fact the He exists... Again, you already agree He is a person... You have no problem with understanding two persons (The Father & Son) are One GOD, but when it comes to the Holy Spirit, the thrid person within the ONENESS of the GODHEAD, that doesn't make sense to you.
Gene wrote: "The fact is, God by His Own authority has told us the nature of it by its name, (The, Holy Spirit) (The Spirit of God). Of course, we cannot fully comprehend that God has a Spirit as it is Holy and is the Spirit of God. Is your spirit in you another you, or is it the invisible quality and essences of the one you?"
He, The Comforter is a person just like The Father and the Son, and they are ONE! Hey bro, at the end of the day, we will have to agree to disagree. But I agree with this statement of yours.
Gene wrote: "The person of the Holy Spirit is that of God, because the Spirit is God. This is exactly what Romans. 8:11 is telling us."
You want to go deeper than that, but all we need to know is that we agree that the Holy Spirit is a Person.
I am not sure if Gene holds that the Son is God
We are trying to come to an agreement that the Holy Spirit is a person. You seem to agree the Holy Spirit is a person.
The bible defines the Holy Spirit as the Spirit of God. THE Spirit IS always the Spirit of the person, this is illustrated in the bible as it relates to our own human spirit.
1 Corinthians 2:11
For who among men knows the things of man, except the spirit of man which is in him? Even so no one has known the things of God, but the Spirit of God.
So, the Spirit of God is not a person, it is the Spirit of God. The spiit of a person constitutes the whole person; the nature of the Spirit is such.
The bible shows us the persons in heaven, and the Spirit is not defined or shown as a person, it is not a distinct entity of itself.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and the Word was God.
1 Corinthians 8:6
but to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.…
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
The Spirit is the Spirit of the person, the bible defines two persons in heaven; the one God and Father. and one Lord, Jesus Christ. Yet one body and one Spirit as Ephesians points out, because the Father is a person.
Jesus answered and said unto him, He who loves me will keep my words, and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him and dwell with him.
Jesus says we, which is the Father and himself; we will come unto him and dwell with him. Obvioulsy they cannot come in bodily form, and therefore must come in the formless manifestation of the Spirit.
9You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet the Spirit gives you life because of righteousness.…
Nowhere does the bible point to the Holy Spirit as being a person or third person of the Godhead. It is not a distinct entity apart from God because the Spirit is God.
There is no life apart from God, the Spirit is life; God projects Himself and impart life by His Spirit.
30When You send Your Spirit, they are created, and You renew the face of the earth.
So, for me the nature of the Spirit is not a mystery because God has revealed it to us. Jesus says,
“The Spirit is The Life Giver; the body does not benefit anything. The words that I speak with you are spirit and life.”
So, outside of someone saying the Spirit is a person, where do you find that in the scriptures?
Brother Gene, I understand what you believe, but we will just have to agree to disagree on some things.
Gene wrote: "The bible defines the Holy Spirit as the Spirit of God. THE Spirit IS always the Spirit of the person, this is illustrated in the bible as it relates to our own human spirit."
That's the thing bro.... We agree!
I'm just trying to explain to you that just like GOD The Father is a person, and GOD The Son is a person, also GOD the Holy Spirit is a person. Newcomers to the Christian Faith must be baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Do you know the Name of the Holy Spirit? If so, what is His Name?
Gene wrote: "So, the Spirit of God is not a person, it is the Spirit of God. The spiit of a person constitutes the whole person; the nature of the Spirit is such."
I disagree, I believe The Holy Spirit is a person , and I agree, it is The Spirit of GOD.
You ask me to show you from the scriptures, but I ask you to reason, if you have no problem with understanding ONE GOD is two Persons, GOD The Father and GOD The Son, then there shouldn't be a problem with understanding GOD The Holy Spirit is the thrid Person of the GODHEAD.
We can never understand how ONE GOD is, in your case, are two persons, and in the case of SDA and most of Christendom, are three persons. Every time I ponder this it boggles my mind, because it's not for us to understand.
At the end of the day brother Gene, From what you teach, you get your teachings from Herbert Armstrong, you believe his teachings help you understand the Bible better... the SOP is clear on the subject, and you may not accept that, but remember, this is a website for 7th Day Adventist only, we believe in the lesser light to understand the Greater light of the Bible.
“That's the thing bro.... We agree!
I'm just trying to explain to you that just like GOD The Father is a person, and GOD The Son is a person, also GOD the Holy Spirit is a person.”
Ok, but is your spirit a distinct person apart from you? No, it is not, but because you don’t understand the nature of the Spirit you cannot see this. The Holy Spirit is the person of God, it is God’s own internal being, it is God’s self.
We are baptized into the name or into the authority invested in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We agree that the Spirit is God, it is God self in formless manifestation. God the Father sends or projects Himself by His own Spirit, it is how God operates in our world and in our life.
…4perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out His love into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, whom He has given us.
The believer has God Holy Spirit, He poured out His love into our hearts through the Holy Spirit.
When you guys can’t explain your teaching from the scriptures you always defer to this is a website for 7th Day Adventist. I’ve been a member of SDA for 30 years; and yes, I do question this issue because I don’t see where you (the lesser light) is applying biblical scriptural to it.
I don’t care if the whole of Christendom believe this false teaching. Many SDA have embraced it just as they’ve embraced many other false teachings. How do you stand for God, by perpetuating falsehood?
Be diligent to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who doesn't need to be ashamed, correctly teaching the word of truth.
We know where the teaching of the Trinity comes from; its no secret.
Gene wrote: "Ok, but is your spirit a distinct person apart from you? No, it is not, but because you don’t understand the nature of the Spirit you cannot see this. The Holy Spirit is the person of God, it is God’s own internal being, it is God’s self."
So let me get this straight, you want me to rationalize the nature of my spirit and the Spirit of GOD? I agree, I don't understand the nature of the Holy Spirit of GOD. Not trying to understand it, because it's not for us to understand.
Gene wrote: "We are baptized into the name or into the authority invested in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We agree that the Spirit is God, it is God self in formless manifestation. God the Father sends or projects Himself by His own Spirit, it is how God operates in our world and in our life."
Again, your getting into the nature of GOD'S Spirit... That's not my business to know. All I know is GOD the Holy Spirit is a person just like The Father and The Son.
Gene wrote: "When you guys can’t explain your teaching from the scriptures you always defer to this is a website for 7th Day Adventist. I’ve been a member of SDA for 30 years; and yes, I do question this issue because I don’t see where you (the lesser light) is applying biblical scriptural to it."
It's not that we haven't explained it, your just not satisfied with the answers, and you want us to engage you inknowing the nature of the Holy Spirit, sorry not happening.
You might have grown up as an SDA, but it's obvious you disagree with certain fundamentals beliefs of the SDA Church, certain prophetic understanding the SDA Church teaches. With that fact, your not a SDA. With your views, your more WWCOG mixed with the JW's now.
Mostly everything you post is in conflict with the fundamental beliefs taught by the SDA Church. But hey, I pray the Holy Spirit shows you the Truth again.
Gene wrote: "I don’t care if the whole of Christendom believe this false teaching. Many SDA have embraced it just as they’ve embraced many other false teachings. How do you stand for God, by perpetuating falsehood? We know where the teaching of the Trinity comes from; its no secret."
I don't know all of what the word trinity entails... "You guys" keep using that word when the Bible or the SOP doesn't use the word. You need to keep using the word trinity to keep promoting your lies on what the SDA Church teaches. Now, The teaching of the GODHEAD is a Biblical SDA teaching.
You think you know the nature of the Holy Spirit , if that is where your mind is, then your on your own my brother.
The 27 uses of mystery used in New Testament is a transliteration of the Greek word Musterion, which means sacred secret. Transliteration is taking the letters of the word into another language, which therefore is NOT A TRANSLATION.
A mystery is something not known, but a secret can be revealed to someone. God hid the sacred secrets from the Devil, the angels and mankind until revealed to Paul by revelation of Jesus Christ.
99.99% of Christians are totally ignorant of the importance and substance of the sacred secrets as a whole; of Paul’s ministry and their being the core of Paul’s ministry.
Paul’s first mention of the sacred secret(s) is in Romans 16: 25 etc.
”Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery (musterion = sacred secret), which was kept secret since the world began,†But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen.†.
NOTICE PAUL SAYS ACCORDING TO MY GOSPEL?
NOTICE PREACHING OF JESUS CHRIST ACCORDINGV TO THE REVELATION OF THE MYSTERY (MUSTERION; MEANING SACRED SECRET).
WHICH WAS KEPT SECRET SINCE THE WIRLD BEGAN. BUT NOW IS MADE MANIFEST, AND BY THE SCRIPTURES OF THE PROPHETS, ACCORDING TO THE COMMANDMENT OF THE EVERLASTING GOD, MADE KNOWN TO ALL NATIONS (LOST WHEN ALL ASIA TURNED AWAY FROM PAUL) FOR THE OBEDIENCE OF FAITH.
The sacred secrets cover multitude of principles, doctrine, the holy spirit and its manifestations, the one body of Christ and his return and our inheritance and place in the heavenlies.
Lack of understanding of the musterion and their application has devastated the potential of the body of Christ (falling away). Even desire to earnestly walk in the power of the holy spirit is seldom seen.
Indeed and this comes from the super Bible student who thinks the Mark of the Beast is a Computer Chip.
GENE and EVERYONE ELSE, PLEASE READ THE PDF UPLOADED HERE ABOUT THE SACRED SECRETS APPENDIX # 193, AS THE SACRED SECRETS WERE GIVEN TO PAUL THAT WAS HIDDEN SINCE THE WORLD BEGAN.
IF GOD THINKS THEY WERE SO IMPORTANT THAT THEY WERE HIDDEN UNTIL REVEALED TO PAUL, AND THAT THEY WERE GIVEN TO PAUL BY REVELATION DIRECTLY FROM JESUS CHRIST, DOES IT NOT MAKE SENSE THAT THESE ARE VERY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND?
OTHER APPENDIXES ARE ALSO MOST ENLIGHTENING.
Did Bullinger think the Mark of the beast was a computer chip?
So, what does that mean? If God was the Father and Jesus the Son, and if Satan was next to Jesus that would mean he was third. But she also says there is a trio of powers in heaven; Father Son and the Spirit. So, did the Spirit get a promotion after the fall?
The fact that she wrote 19400 items could say a lot about what she did or did not understand.
The fact that you can not be bothered to read for yourself means you are just a lazy argumentive who does nor really knows the story and just makes foolish comments I refer you to my post earlier.
Those who are truly SDA will hold to the pillars of the SDA faith. Those who are truly SDA will abandon the Trinitarian creed.