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I was doing a study to write a outline of the foundational pillars of Adventism. Everyone seems to have a personal view of what they entail but limited support for it. What SOP or writings in church periodicals has everyone on this important issue as I have the following pillars.....

The investigative judgment
The sanctuary service
The perpetuity of the Law of God
The faith of Jesus
The Three Angels' Messages
The seventh-day Sabbath
The state of the dead
The special gift of prophecy (or the Testimony of Jesus).

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James said:

"The fact that Thomas called Jesus “God” does not mean he thought Jesus was part of the Triune God, but he did think of him as God’s highest representative and worthy to be called “god.” "

Yes, James, that is just speculation and you do not know what Thomas was thinking anyway. You neatly skip ower that Peter also called Jesus God and that was before the resurrection. 

But what can you expect from a bible student who thinks the mark of the beast is a computer chip.

James said, "The fact that Thomas called Jesus “God” does not mean he thought Jesus was part of the Triune God, but he did think of him as God’s highest representative and worthy to be called “god.”"

This does not make any sense. What are you suggesting that Thomas thought Jesus was? "A" god? A demon? Or is it 'anything that doesn't mean *the* God'?

The phrase is very clear, "My Lord and my God" yet you now claim that when Thomas said "God" he didn't mean "God"? Of course, I realise that in order to promote your personal theology you have to take an unnatural meaning for the word. So when Christ refers to "my God and your God" in vs.17, using the same word, He is referring to something or someone other than God?

Likewise, in chapter 1 vs. 1 when John refers to the Word (Christ) being God are you now arguing, like the Jehovah's Witnesses, that that Christ was "a god", not THE God?

For SDAs there is no problem because we believe in the plain word of God and do not need to twist it to suit our personal theology.

How many gods do you believe in? If it really is only one then you must agree with John that Christ is that one God - or did John, Thomas (and presumably the other disciples) get it wrong?

John certainly claims that Christ is God in his Gospel and in Revelation:

"And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen." (Rev 1:6)

Here John refers to God "and his Father". If Christ is not God then who is John referring to - which God has a Father if it is not Christ?

Polycarp stated that he was taught the doctrines of the faith by the Apostle John and Polycarp, like John refers to Christ as God.

In turn Polycarp taught Ireneus, who testifies to that "Christ is God".

So, within the decades following the Apostles we have a clear teaching in regard to the Godhead which you claim did not exist - yet we have absolutely no record of anyone objecting to this teaching, no-one claiming that the Gospel as received in the Apostolic times has been perverted, no-one claiming that Christ is not God. How can that be if, as you suggest, no-one considered Christ to be God?

Even when you get to the Council of Nicaea no-one makes the claim that Christ is not God, not even Arius. 

If you want to continue the discussion I suggest you go back to this thread, The Holy Spirit in current lesson 2017. In that thread I have challenged your claims in regard to the Council of Nicaea yet, a month and a half later, you still have not made any attempt to answer the challenge to your fake history.

It is rather typical that you claim that I am ignoring history when it is you who is denying simple historical facts.

I will point out again that this thread is for discussion of what were the foundational Pillars of Adventism, none of your replies have addressed the actual topic of the thread, so please take your response to the appropriate thread.

Did Bullinger believe the mark of the beast was a computer chip?

 

I guess that you would expect something like this from a bible student who thinks the mark of the beast is a computer chip! 

Peace

James wrote: "Correct Leslie Ann!
Nowhere in scriptures did anyone do anything in these three names. I don't think the whole first-century body of Christ disobeyed by not using these three 'names' as used in Matthew 28:19!
Everything in the New Testament was done in the name of Jesus Christ or Christ Jesus. Period. "

First, you say nowhere in scripture did anyone do anything in these Three names, but it says baptize in the Name of The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.


You know the Father and Son's Name don't you?

You believe they are two persons don't you?

If so, then just apply that thinking to the Holy Spirit. He is a person and He has a Name as well.

Matt. 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


James wrote: "Trinitarian doctrine without foundation, as it crept into the church gradually; 325 AD Jesus declared to be God (2 gods) and in 381 AD the holy spirit declared to be God (3 gods). See the history of Catholic Councils in Wikipedia or any good history book on the subject."


I don't know all of what the trinitarian doctrine entails... I just know about the GODHEAD. Nowhere in the Bible or SOP does it use the word trinitarian/trinity. 


What is your understanding of the GODHEAD?

 

 Everybody who to seems to have a problem with SDA teaching on the GODHEAD can't answer this simple question.

 What is done is a constant usage of the word trinity or trinitarian, which is certainly a hot button word, but again, it's a word not even used in the Bible or the writings of EGW. From what JohnB wrote, apparently there is a definition to the word trinitarian/trinity that is defined by the RCC that is not the same as the definition of The GODHEAD. What that is I don't know.

 JohnB wrote: "So, when she refers to the Holy Spirit as the third Person of the Godhead she is giving a trinitarian [GODHEAD] statement. You appear to be using a different definition, possibly the Roman Catholic Church's definition, but is that really fair? " (brackets are mine) 

  So brother Dan, Rush, M.E, Gene, James etc..., and sister Leslie Ann hasn't shown anything that shows the SDA teaching in regards to the GODHEAD to be wrong.

 Like I said years ago, the beef with y'all is the usage of the word trinitarian or trinity. Again, like JohnB said, the RCC definition of the word trinitarian or trinity could be different than the definition the Bible gives of The GODHEAD.  There is no need to use the word trinitarian or trinity when it's not used in the The Bible or in the writings of EGW. So, if trinitarian/trinity continues to be used it's just a smoke screen to the clear facts of what Biblical SDA teachings really teach. 

Blessings! 

 

Reasoning:

You obviously didn't read the document I included at the bottom of my last post that you are responding to.

It is simple, The Creator is God, there is only one God.

Jesus Christ is The Son of God, the only begotten. Jesus Christ is subordinate to The Father God. That is why Jesus said he could do nothing unless the Father has directed him (by written Word and walking by the spirit with seven manifestations of holy spirit available at that time. Later speaking in tongues and its interpretation was added at and after the Day of Pentecost.

The holy spirit is the gift of God; (lower case to denote the gift of God, as the Father is sometimes referred to as the Holy Spirit (Upper case should be used to distinguish from the gift of God holy spirit. Context denotes whether it is The Father or the gift of God that is being referred to in the text. In Original scriptures, everything was capitalized.

Great authority has been given to the Son of God because of his obedience, but he is still subservient to the Father God, the only God, as there is none other. That is monotheism, which set the Hebrews apart from paganism with its multiple gods.

Indeed this comes from the great bible student who thinks the mark of the beast is a computer chip, clearly nothing to take any note of. 

 

James said, "The Creator is God, there is only one God."

Speaking of Jesus, the Apostle John writes, "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." (John 1:3)
and, "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not." (John 1:10)

If the Creator is God and Jesus created everything then Jesus must be God.

Peace 

Brother James, you are right, I didn't read the link... There are some things that you write that is true. 

What I know is that we are to baptize in the Name of The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit... That's the GODHEAD. Your right, "it is simple"! 

 If you don't believe "He", the Holy Spirit is the Thrid person with the Father and the Son as the other Two, then we have to agree to disagree. Because if your going to get into the nature of the Holy Spirit to explain why "He" is not the Thrid Person of the GODHEAD, then it's an impossible discussion for me to have. Do you understand? 

Thank you my brother.  Blessings!  

JohnB: you said I was “off topic” even though the 3 gods godhead is one of the pillars of SDA and the discussion was on this specific part by the participants, yet you singled me out and stopped the discussion. Therefore you lie and avoid answering the 34 reasons the holy spirit is not a personality and other documentation. You are a snake in the grass.

You will forever show your characteristics because that is your nature. You still refuse to confess that Jesus came in the flesh and is the Son of God. Nowhere in scripture is belief in the 3 in 1 doctrine a condition of salvation, because it was never a part of primitive Christianity.

James said, "JohnB: you said I was “off topic” even though the 3 gods godhead is one of the pillars of SDA..."

This thread is a discussion on what the foundational pillars of SDAism were. No-one has yet shown that "the 3 gods godhead" [sic] was a foundational pillar.

If you have evidence that it was, then please post it. The topic is to discuss what the pillars were, not to discuss each individual pillar. There are other threads already in existence that are for that purpose. You are invited to contribute into one of those threads.

You are not the only person that I have asked to not highjack this thread. You are simply being asked to respect the topic of the thread.

I assume that you will now post evidence for there having been a foundational pillar of "the 3 gods godhead". This would be particularly helpful. 

Reasoning said,

So brother Dan, Rush, M.E, Gene, James etc..., and sister Leslie Ann hasn't shown anything that shows the SDA teaching in regards to the GODHEAD to be wrong.

The teaching that there are three living persons of the heavenly trio does not bear out as it relates to the biblical fact, and this has been shown. Only God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ has been shown to be persons of the Godhead.  The Holy Spirit is as what the bible says; the Spirit of God. Because you fail to embrace and understand the nature of the Spirit of God in that it is the active power and authority of God’s very presence, and by not understanding this you have excepted a false identity of the Holy Spirit and of the Godhead.  The SOP has injected the Third Person identity to the Holy Spirit for example taken from the post.

….the Spirit in all the fullness of the Godhead, making manifest the power of divine grace to all who receive and believe in Christ as a personal Saviour. There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.—Special Testimonies,

I agree, the Spirit itself is the manifested power of God; it is the formless manifestation of God own presence, but then she interjects by saying, “there are three living persons of the heavenly trio”, something the bible does not share. Let’s be honest with the bible and ourselves, it’s ok the recognize error and correct it.

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