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When one tries to increase his knowledge by doing mental gymnastics over books without waiting upon God and looking to the guidance of the Holy Spirit, his soul is plainly in full swing. This will deplete his spiritual life. Because the fall of man was occasioned by seeking knowledge, God uses the foolishness of the cross to "destroy the wisdom of the wise.”
Watchman Nee

How many SDA's have fallen into the trap of Knowledge vs True Spiritual growth and development. Instead of seeking a relationship with Christ they seek a relationship with the rules. This is an unfulfilled Christian experience which leads to anger and frustration. It also paves the way for a judgemental nature. It is imperative for us all to wait patiently for the Guidance of the Holy Spirit both in action and wisdom. It is this path that leads to true fulfillment. Many in this world are seeking a Spiritual Connection but have are confused about method. As Christians we can follow the example of Pastor Nee, and seek the true knowledge of the cross.


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Correct Leon, excellent understanding. The written Word and the holy spirit confirm each other, not contradictory. Regarding Bart's comments above and other matters:

operate; "verb (used without object)operated,operating.

to work, perform, or function, as a machine does:
This engine does not operate properly.
to work or use a machine, apparatus, or the like.
to act effectively; produce an effect; exert forceor influence (often followed by on or upon): 
Their propaganda is beginning to operate on theminds of the people.
to perform some process of work or treatment.
Surgery. to perform a surgical procedure.
(of a drug) to produce the effect intended.
  1. to carry on operations in war.
  2. to give orders and accomplish military acts, asdistinguished from doing staff work.

verb (used with object)operated,operating.
to manage or use (a machine, device, etc.):
to operate a switchboard.
to put or keep (a factory, industrial system,ranch, etc.) working or in operation : 
to operate a coal mine.
As to Kenneth Copelanrd, he is a multimillionaire counterfeit, like most of the TV "evangelists."
Scriptures regarding all 9 manifestations confirm done in cooperation, not taking over. The believer must operate/cooperate with God by the holy spirit, Lucifer takes over, possession, demonization.
Some here on AO infer God controlling in a take over like manner. God energizes the manifestations, tongues was done out of order, not being interpreted and and all at once by everyone, total chaos. Paul corrected the Corinthians. This proves that manifestations are operated in cooperation with God, but can be misused. But God energizes them, so there is a safeguard that it cannot be taken too far, such as using the manifestation of miracles to do evil. I Cor. chapter 13 gives the motivation should be love etc.
There is a knee-jerk reaction by SDA to be automatically opposed to all supernatural manifestations, especially speaking in tongues. When there is a counterfeit there is always a genuine, whether dollar, artwork, or spirit.
There is no tradition of any manifestations of holy spirit other than EGW assuming she was genuine prophet of God, and maybe early pioneers? You are all such experts, considering you have not researched the Greek, operated the genuine, and almost all of you are not interesting in the power of God, with very few exceptions. We are supposed to be zealous for spiritual matters or things, meaning the manifestations of holy spirit as well as not being ignorant of Satan's devices.
Some of you attack every little word I use, without seeing the truths I am saying. Ask yourself why?
You assume evil without adequate evidence. Some of you hate me, the words confirm that and the attitude. Some here want no one who attended SDA church for several years to be here. So much for acceptance and the one body of Christ. The clannishness and hatred of other Christians is in some of you. Derogatory words used of "Sunday worshipers."

Not all of you have these prejudices and bias, but many certainly do. Well, no Christian or organization is perfect. I have given a lot of information about many topics, from research, and have seen great opposition based primarily that I am not SDA member, just attended. No credibility for having researched the Word and been in the spiritual battle for going on now 43 years. My testimony and experience and research and the truth that I have learned as well as others to operate 9 manifestations of holy spirit is considered being boasting? Well I will boast about being saved and of God's power and love and will continue to do so. It is a witness whether you think so or not.
To those who are reasonable here, nice, kind, loving and reasonable, the comments and observations are not directed to you. But you might learn something I hope?


you are clearly wrong here you do not "Operate" God in any way or form. The closest you can get God to ascend to your wishes is prayer, and then only if they are in keeping with God's Own will. I fully agree with Bart your approach to God is the same as the Pentecostals. 

Did you read the definition of "operate?"

You obviously know nothing about the manifestations of holy spirit nor the word on this subject. On the Day of Pentecost, Acts 2:4 "  4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."

They began to speak, they did the speaking, but the utterance (the words spoken) is from the holy spirit as inspired. Associated with speaking in tongues is the Greek word laleo, which means to speak without reference to the words spoken. That is how speaking in tongues, speaking in tongues with interpretation and prophesy is done. God gives the words but the believer moves his lips, tongue, breathes etc. as the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. The believer has complete control over everything except what words are spoken, otherwise it would not be God's inspired Word, as the holy spirit by passes the part of the brain that thinks of words before spoken, that you speak in tongues is your business, but what is spoken is God's business, except the believers are to make sure what is spoken after the fact flows with scripture, the prophets are supposed to judge what is spoken goes along with scripture.

The Word of God proves that you are mistaken, you have wrong instruction (or no instruction?) on this subject, you do not know what you are talking about. Tell us oh wise one, have you ever manifested any of the 9 listed manifestations of holy spirit, and if so, tell us about it? Like a lot of the gainsayers here, you have no accurate knowledge or experience in the holy spirit field, nor on the field of spiritual battle, nor have you cast out demons or ministered healing for then you would know something.

You need a good dose of meekness and willingness to learn, and to get off your high horse of ignorance and disinformation.

James said: You need a good dose of meekness

Yes James seems to be something of rare commodity around here. As we see you bragging about your abilities, manifesting what you think is the spirit.

James said: The Word of God proves that you are mistaken, you have wrong instruction (or no instruction?) on this subject, you do not know what you are talking about. Tell us oh wise one, have you ever manifested any of the 9 listed manifestations of holy spirit, and if so, tell us about it?

Sorry James I am not a Braggart like you why should I tell you about my experiences with The Holy Spirit. What you fail to understand is that anyone can prove just about anything from the Bible. As we know you are obsessed with the “mysterion” that you claim to be the only one who know anything about “operating” the spirit. And this idiotic idea that you can have a 9 gifts from God is a very rare thing I have never heard about anyone having all nine. Compare with Jesus Parable about the talents. Matt Ch. 25

James Of cause the other thing with the 9 gifts of the Holy Spirit are that they are Gifts or talents that God gives to us as He think is fitting and right. As we know Gods gifts are wonderful as long as they are from God because there is also false manifestations of gifts and talents, as you so ably have demonstrated here.

But you seem to speak very little or as far as I have noticed not at all about the Fruits of the Spirit. Those fruits can not be falsified because Paul lists the Fruits of God separate to the fruits of satan as we have seen you are good at manifesting those fruits of satan.  

I wonder if James and Leon operate their spouses.  I think if they said they did their wives would be angry, and correctly so. If it is offensive to operate a person then how much more so with the Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit is not equipment. The Bible is clear that the Holy Spirit can be grieved and is a Person, part of the God head.  

Leon and James need to take care of not sounding like a medium who is channeling a spirit or learning how to manage a spirit. 

We are the servants and subjects of God, we don't order God about like you hear many Pentecostal Preachers do. 

Bart that is quite right, but i guess that sort of thinking is endemic with pentecostals. Our relationship with God is based on respect, as God shows respect to our free will. The other way around is not God but Satan. 

You guys don't know if I have a spouse or not. They began to speak in tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance. Believers laid hands on people and ministered healing, believers have to believe which often involves action. You are so snug about Your knowledge and making unsubstantiated judgments about the Holy Spirit, Leon, me, Gene.

Satanists can mimick the fruit of the spirit also as well as counterfeit the manifestations of Holy Spirit, and I know people who operate all 9 manifestations. I told you the word gifts was added to I Cor. 12, 13, and 14. ALL BELIEVERS HAVE THE GOD GIVEN ABILITY WHEN BORN AGAIN TO MANIFEST ALL NINE.

You don't honor or believe in the manifestations of Holy Spirit or in the sacred secrets given to Paul by Jesus Christ which was hidden from the foundations of the world. You too are like swine, rending the pearls of truth under your feet, but there are other people here reading this. You have no conception, no understanding on this subject. Neither are you two capable to make judgments about what you have no knowledge of and no experience of or very little at best.

The word of a God is the final authority about the manifestations, but you haven't deeply researched that. My experiences of the manifestations fit with the scriptures and other people knowledgeable and experienced in the Holy Spirit field trained me and have seen me manifest Holy Spirit. Therefore I have peer acceptance and training, and over 42 years at this. What the heck do you have for qualifications of the manifestations? You refuse to answer my question if you have ever done any manifestation of Holy Spirit? Humility is not called for here for you, because you have tried to discredited me and the manifestations of Holy Spirit, called me for everything. You attack Leon and others without justification I called you on that several times. You two have discredited yourselves.

Now you have nothing to show of credibility. That is not being meek to the Word and the spirit. I have proven from the Word, from the Greek, given my own testimony! And prophesy on this site as inspired:

"I The Lord God shall not be mocked. I have sent my spirit to those that believe in my Son. The power of the Holy Spirit is given to guide, protect, heal, inform, and deliver people, and correct. Who are you to judge of my spirit that I give? You say you believe in me and my spirit, but refuse to walk in it, and do that which is contrary. Your judgments are void of wisdom. Those that believe me walk in both power and love. Your fruit is poison, of unbelief and false judgment and foolishness. I am sick of the stench of religion, of bondage and false humility. Those that love me love the brethren and desire to help others by utilizing my spirit that I give through my son, and teach my Word and ways by the spirit. But you would have none of it.

You frustrate grace and quench the spirit. Therefore you shall not receive the great things of the spirit that I offer as you have rejected all reason and your stubbornness is not good, for you or anyone else that could benefit. My spirit is a witness of both me and my Son. You say you believe but do not do, deceiving yourselves and others.

The children of Israel would not hear, harken or believe, and had defied my Word and will, they reaped what they sowed and received their reward for unbelief. I warn and I plead, but many do not take heed even now, rejecting my written, spoken, revealed and inspired Word.

The days approach that will cause men's hearts to fail them for the darkness and wickedness is already here upon the earth more magnified other than the days of Noah which are already at the door. My people need Me and my spirit now and in the future. This is no time to quench and defy the spirit, but a time to pray, take heed, repent, mourn, and then stand, walk and obey my Word and spirit. Rebellion and treachery shall surely be rewarded.

But the end is victory, my children shall be delivered and obtain the promises I have made and receive the good things I have for my people. Others shall receive their reward for iniquity. False brethren, the evil oppressors of the people and those teaching doctrines of Devils shall go down into the pit and shall be no more. My dear children shall stand and see that day and there shall be no darkness or evil after judgment is complete and the Kingdom I have promised shall be delivered up by my Son, so that I shall be all in all."
You do not respect the spirit of God, as you speak against the spirit of God and attack believers without justification constantly. I addressed you several times, yet you are mean and harsh. When you attacked a kind older lady, that was very uncalled for. We are supposed to treat older believers like a mother or Father, and as they say respect your elders.

I am 65 years old, and have been a minister of the gospel over 42 years. You show no respect for me as a believer or an elder, not an elder in the SDA 501(c)(3) corporation, but as a born again child of God in the one body of Christ. Many times my life has been in peril for the Gospels sake. God is my witness, for I tell the truth in Christ Jesus. If you respect and believe God, then you would walk by the spirit and respect other believers, especially elders in the faith who have risked life and limb for the Gospel's sake. Let God get the glory that I stand today alive due to the grace and protection of the Lord.

James May I ask what you are trying to achieve with that load of rubbish. It seems to be filled with the spiritual fruits of Satan.


How would one know if they have grieved the Holy Spirit if they lack a relationship with the Spirit. You make assumptions from your dislike and to prove a point. The Holy Spirit is an entity which serves to guide one life, not a Spiritual force that yields to ones bidding. It is also not a collection of books. It is easy to see the flaw in ones neighbor, but it is the ones at home that are most deadly.


I am not certain you have followed the statements in this thread.  I used the example of the grieving the Holy Spirit to show that the Holy Spirit has personal feelings and is not as you say a "spiritual force".   There are other scriptures that show the Holy Spirit to be a person and not a force but I am not able to look that up now but if you want I can later.  James French was talking about "operating the Holy Spirit" as you would a car, so maybe you should speak to him about the Holy Spirit being just a force. 

It is clear from your statements you have something against EGW and her writings, thus your statements about a "collection of books".  So why do you mention this obscure Watchmen Nee, and why should we consider his writings or beliefs? What is it that SDA have to learn from you Leon? 


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