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Those Crazy Lunar Sabbath People: How Do They Do That?

Let's assume for a moment that those Lunar Sabbath people are crazy. Certifiable. Let's just say they have completely lost their wits, and don't have a gnat's chance of making it out on the last bus to the kingdom. Bear with me here.

Now, according to these "lunartics," they say they have found evidence in scripture of a calendar. It's an old calendar. Very old. At least as old as Moses. And they say this calendar, is of all things, governed by the moon. Now, doesn't that beat all? That's an absolutely preposterous idea. Ask any Adventist and that's what they will tell you. "Oh, that's nothing but error," they say. So the Adventists go back to their corner, and the lunar sabbath people go back to theirs. End of story. Or is it?

According to those fanatics, they say there is a formula in the Bible for determining the calendar, month by month. Here's comes that "moon" thing again. They say when they see the sliver of the new moon in the western sky, after the moon has been completely dark for a day or so, just after sunset, it begins New Moon day, and is the 1st day of the month. They go on to say that the day after new moon day is the 1st day of the 1st week of that month. On that 1st day of the week, they count the days for 7 days and come to, voila, the "7th day Sabbath." It is the 8th day of the month. Then they do it again, repeating this cycle 4 times each month.

When they, these insane lunar sabbath people do this, they say their 7th day sabbaths are on the 8th, 15th, 22nd, and 29th days of the month. Each and every month of the year.

Now this is where it really gets crazy. These folks have gone way off the deep end here. They say that the 1/4 phases of the moon occur on or near these same 7th day sabbaths on the 8th, 15th, 22nd, and 29th days of the month.

Then these far out folks even say they have evidence from their prophet that supports this pattern. And they present us with the following:

"The first of these festivals, the Passover, the feast of unleavened bread, occurred in Abib, the first month of the Jewish year, corresponding to the last of March and the beginning of April. The cold of winter was past, the latter rain had ended, and all nature rejoiced in the freshness and beauty of the springtime. The grass was green on the hills and valleys, and wild flowers everywhere brightened the fields. THE MOON, NOW APPROACHING FULL, (on or near the 15th day) made the evenings delightful." pp538

"The Redeemer, in company with his disciples, slowly made his way to the garden of Gethsemane. The PASSOVER MOON, BROAD AND FULL (on or near the 15th day), shone from a cloudless sky." 3SP95

"On the FOURTEENTH day of the month, at even, the Passover was celebrated, its solemn, impressive ceremonies commemorating the deliverance from bondage in Egypt, and pointing forward to the sacrifice that should deliver from the bondage of sin." PP 540

"These types were fulfilled, not only as to the event, but as to the time. On the FOURTEENTH day of the first Jewish month, the very day and month on which, for fifteen long centuries, the passover lamb had been slain, Christ, having eaten the passover with his disciples, instituted that feast which was to commemorate his own death as "the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." GC400

"That was a never-to-be-forgotten SABBATH (15th) to the sorrowing disciples, and also to the priests, rulers, scribes, and people. At the SETTING OF THE SUN ON THE EVENING OF THE PREPARATION DAY (6th day of week, 14th day of the month) the trumpets sounded, signifying that the SABBATH (15th) had begun. The PASSOVER was observed as it had been for centuries, while He to whom it pointed had been slain by wicked hands, and lay in Joseph's tomb." DA774

Imagine that? What a crazy story. What nerve they have telling us that the 1/4 phases of the moon coincide with the 7th day Sabbaths in that calendar they say they found in the Bible.

How do those crazy lunar sabbath people make those moon phases come out that way anyway?

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To keep it simple, very simple, are you saying that the day God blessed and sanctified is kept track of by a lunar basis?
Simply, yes. I believe this is what the evidence is trying to tell us.
Why does it matter how you keep track of months? What difference does it make to us as Christians?

We are convinced that we are keeping the true Sabbath based on God's creation week. Why insist on a different and antiquated monthly system (man's invention) that was abandoned because it did not accurately keep track of years (God's invention)?

None of this affects God's creation of the week or the Sabbath. The seven day week has not changed one bit.
Thanks for the simple answer. I have another simple question, So you believe God waited for the moon He created on the 4th day to determine when He would rest from creation?

And question 2, another simple one. What do you make of the 7th day using the same 24 hour period, or concept of day, in yom, and God saying thats where He rested, and thats when He blessed and sanctified that day? To my understanding, evening plus morning is something you track by the sun, not by the moon, no? (or a simplified way to make this question, how do you use the moon to calculate a 24 period consistently, or better said, every single time)
Hey Jose;

Thanks for the comments. Those are a couple of great questions. And it is by asking just those kinds of questions that we explore and learn.

Q1 The simple answer is no, but it requires clarification and a closer look at Genesis. We have been taught or we have understood that God "created" the great lights or the sun and moon on the 4th day. But is that accurate? A closer look will reveal that the words "created" and "made" are different words, both in english and hebrew.

Here is my current understanding of this aspect of creation. I believe the sun and moon were created just prior to day one, what ever that time period implies. Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Heaven implies that whatever was in the heavens was "created" then. Remember, we are still in the dark here, so to speak. Some lunar calendar proponents believe that this dark just before day one represents the new moon day. I tend to agree with this position at this point.

Then we get to day 4. Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. The word "made" is different, so we have to consider the option that something else other than created occurred on the 4th day. This verse by the way is part of the answer to your question #2 One of Strong's definitions of the word "made" is "appointed" So we might consider that this is when God told the sun and the moon, "get to work now."

If this is actually the timing framework of how creation week progressed, then it is easy to see how there are then 7 days in the week in their proper place. I tend to believe that creation week was in the spring, in the first month of the biblical year. That being the case, creation would seem to be the first week in that month and would fit with the lunar calendar design in scripture.

Q2 I believe the 7th day Sabbath is the 24 hour period on each 7th day, from sunset of the 6th day til sunset of the 7th day. Since the greater light, the sun, was "made" to rule the day, and the lesser light, the moon, was made to rule the night, they both work together as the creator designed.

I hope this is helpful to your questions. Thanks

Paul
So question 1:

You're saying you believe God created something prior to day 1, and then something else on day 4. What was it then, to your understanding that was created on these 2 different days? You've already stated for Q2 the greater light to rule the day is the sun and the lesser light to rule the night to be the moon? Before day 4, what would be in its place?

Also as you stated God did not wait for the moon to rest and bless the 7th day, why not stick to God waited for each 24 hour period to expire, and then on the 7th did the same as the same exact word is used to determine a full day period, and then blessed it, and leave the moon's activity out of it?

Another thing, if creation happened in spring, winter, summer, autumn, whats the difference? God counted 7 days, right? Every time evening and morning happened, it was a new day. The time of year does not change that.

Question 2:

Well, it seems we agree there so won't add or pursue that one more.
OK, let's see if I can get my little pea brain wrapped around your questions.

In my current understanding, I believe the sun and moon were created in that space of time before day one. God created the "heaven" and the earth. The sun and moon were created and in place when day one began. On day 4, something was done, "made" with the sun and the moon. Let's see if I can use an analogy here. I get a model kit, say airplane. Before I start putting it together, I put all the pieces on my worktable so I can readily see what I've got. Then, (on day one) I begin putting the airplane together. On day 4, I attach the engine. (the sun and the moon are the engine) I start the engine and test it. I know the engine will work. But the plane won't fly, because I have finished yet; I haven't put the wings on. Without them the plane won't fly. I know this is no doubt a poor analogy so I apologize for that, but hope you are able to make sense of it.

Here's the word for "heaven" from Complete Word Study dictionary:

šāmayim: A masculine noun meaning sky, heaven, abode, firmament, air, stars. Although the word is plural or dual in form, it can be translated into English as singular or plural depending on the context. The word describes everything God made besides the earth: God made the heavens of the universe (Gen_1:1; Gen_14:19); the firmament or expanse which He created around the earth was named sky or heaven as well (Gen_1:8). He stretched out the heavens (Isa_40:22); creating them (Isa_42:5; Isa_45:18).
The heavens that humans observe with their senses are indicated by this word. The stars are part of the heavens (Gen_15:5) and are personified in some cases (Jdg_5:20); the sun and the moon, along with the stars, make up a major part of the hosts of heaven (Deu_4:19). Unfortunately, these things were worshiped as gods by even the Israelites (Jer_8:2). The heavens became a source of knowing the future and life in general, for scanners of the heavens and astrologers searched the heavens for signs (Isa_47:13)

I'm not sure of the second part of your question which says; "Also as you stated God did not wait for the moon to rest and bless the 7th day," Could you figure out a different way to ask that, as it is no doubt important.

Thanks
Regards
Paul
I'm sure I could ask harder questions and that you would be plenty able to understand and continue interacting just fine ;)

I understand what you mean. Created and made may be 2 different things, but can also be interchangeable. For example, can I not also say, "I made that vase" as well as, "I created that vase"?

As for created heaven and earth, would it not make more sense to understand God created earth as in that formless object? As for heaven, well, the space above it? Taking your interpretation it seems you are saying God created the moon twice, the sun, twice instead of on separate occasions. Personally, to me, it makes sense in seeing God created those 2 objects on the 4th day as it says "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide.... | Genesis 1:14 These lights were not in place in day as they are shown here, no?

I do understand your analogy.

In seeing the definition you provided I notice more than once it calls those objects "part" of heaven, not the heavens itself. To me, that is important and makes Genesis 1:1 clear. Heaven and earth, having nothing in them. Then later God adding more to it, a part of it, but not heaven or earth again itself. In other words, no sun, no moon, those parts of the heaven were added later. No? I mean, it does have consistency with the very definition which you have provided.

With that 2nd part, I meant that God did not wait on what the moon was doing to rest on and bless the Sabbath. Rather, God took it one day at a time, and after 6 days, not regarding the moon's activity, sanctified the Sabbath. I believe we should do the same thing, and keep the Sabbath on a solar basis, not a lunar one. <--- My belief :)
You could use those two different words as you say. But what about the context of creation week. The word created is used before day one, and seems to imply that the heaven(s) including the sun and moon were created at that time. It is the earth that is without form and void, not the heaven(s).

Regarding whether the sun and moon were created twice, I'm not saying that don't mean to imply that. What I'm trying to say is that the sun and moon were created just prior to day one in the heaven(s). They existed on day 4. The word "made" implies that something else was done in the "making" process on day four. What that is exactly, is a bit of a mystery. Consider that God spun them into their place and cycle exactly where He wanted them. Think of it sort of as a spinning top. You decide you want to make a spinning top, and you do. It's just sitting there on your workbench. Then you pick it up, wrap the string around it, and spin it onto the workbench.

I just looked at the word firmament, and I think it would be a stretch to say that the sun and moon belong in that definition. Part of the definition of heaven I provided does say "the sun and the moon, along with the stars, make up a major part of the hosts of heaven"

Thanks for your great probing questions.

And now we come to the crux of the issue.

The events of 11th September 2001 burned deep into the collective psche of the USA. Many Christians, in an attempt to come to terms with those events, have demanded to see it in prophecy. Even SDAs were not exempt and a very tenuous "prophecy" by EGW was produced which some insist was a revelation of that tragic event. Sadly, it is a very good example of the US-centric view of prophecy that is taken by many North Americans. They insist that 11th September 2001 "must" be found in prophecy because it was such a momentous event yet are happy to accept that the First World War (the "war to end all wars", touted as "Armageddon" by some SDAs at the time) is not specifically mentioned. Similarly, the Second World War (an even more horrific bloodbath than the First with 50,000,000 deaths) fails to appear. Even the genocide of 6,000,000+ Jews fails to rate a mention in prophecy, likewise the Boxing Day 2004 tsunami with 230,000 people losing their lives cannot be specifically identified in prophecy.

Yet, to enable the Christian-US psyche to come to terms with 11th September 2001 it "must" be found in prophecy. I find it all very sad that so much time is spent on trying to reconcile the events to God.

If we want to find 11/09/01 in prophecy all we have to do is read Matt.24. Of course the ripples of that shock-wave experience continue to resonate throughout the world today but this unrestrained desire to reconcile the events, even to make the date into a significant prophetic one, can do more damage than good.

Do I really care when the living begin to be judged? Why should I? If the everlasting gospel is not enough to make me turn from my sins to the loving arms of Jesus then must I embrace Him out of fear for my own safety? That is the basis of "Hellfire preaching" - resulting in a "fire escape" religion. Honouring God out of fear rather than love.

I have no guarantee that the Lord will grant me one more day of life. All of my life is a gift from Him. If I want salvation I'd better make sure that my sins are covered by His blood NOW. Prophecy is not the Gospel, rather it is God's signature, His imprimatur, showing me that He is the Author and He is in control. The closer one comes to the assurance of salvation in Him the less need there is to follow cunningly devised fables that distract from the study of the character of Christ. This topic is a very good example of the distractions that satan will bring to bear on God's people at the end of time.
Who cares that these "Crazy Lunar Sabbath People" have found ancient monthly calendars that differ from our current one? Monthly calendars have nothing to do with the way we understand or keep the Sabbath. The Sabbath is based on the Creation week alone and God hallowing the Sabbath. The week is a creation of God. Months, no matter what format you 'discover', whether they are based on the moon or the sun, were all invented by man. Months have no bearing or relevance to the way we relate to our God. To say otherwise is false.

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