Tithing - TDS : Are we practising abomination?
As I was taking the Sabbath school lesson for this week…Wednesday August 10, we reviewed the following---
“dwell on the sanctuary service: the sacrifice of the animals, the ministry of the priests… What sacred truths can we draw from this earthly and temporary system…Why should these truths be so central in our worship..? “
Hebrews 10: 1-4 was quoted to show how useless the sacrificial system is which would not point out to the reality of Christs’ Sacrifice in verses 8-10.
We saw in conjunction—
Psa 51:16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
Psa 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
Hos 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
“ In other words, though the whole sanctuary service was to point to Christ, as believers they needed to move away from the symbols toward reality..
How can we be sure that we do not make worship and the things of worship as ends in themselves”
A question was raised about the purpose of tithing.
“Having sinned, man was sentenced to earn his livelihood by the sweat of his face (Gen 3:17–19), and there was danger that he would come to say in his heart, “My power and the might of mine hand hath gotten me this wealth” (Deut 8:17), whereas in reality it was God who had given him the power to get it (v 18). Accordingly, when the Israelites were about to enter Canaan, God warned them that when they should attain to some degree of prosperity they should beware lest they forget Him (vs 7–11 cf. Rom 1:19–21). By paying tithe man acknowledges that he is a steward of God, the owner of all things. God does not need man’s financial support, for “the world” is His, “and the fullness thereof” (Ps 50:10–12). But man, particularly in his sinful state, stands in urgent and constant need of a reminder that God is the source of “every good gift and every perfect gift” (Jas 1:17)” –SDABC Dictionary on Tithe.
It is written-- Duet 14:22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed…...
14:23 …., the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
Then we contrasted it with our denominational practice. All denominational workers are given their salary after their tithe is deducted. Just like the Governments doing TDS – Tax deduction at source.
Are we practicing TDS – Tithe deduction at source?
Is not tithing also an act of worship? When we practice TDS are not we going against the very principle and puropose of tithe as given in the Bible as well as acclaimed in our own Bible Commentary ?
Aren’t we practicing the same abomination as Catholics do and claim in their practices?
Can somebody else take baptism instead on my behalf?
Can somebody else read Bible on my behalf?
Can somebody else take Communion instead on my behalf?
Can somebody else keep sabbath on my behalf?
Then how is it possible that somebody else can pay tithe on my behalf?
Alarmed and concerned at this prospect
Yours fearfully
DM
Views: 461
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Bill Lackie on -
taking=giving??
I THINK NOT!!
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Permalink Reply by samuel nyakundi nyamweya on -
SUPPORTED
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Permalink Reply by Scott on -
Hi All, grace and peace.
Great post. I am not a paid member, however it should be left to the individual to bring God what is Gods.
I attended A seminar with my Wife called "Simple Church". I do not know if you are familiar with this ? It is, in its basic sense, a model for church growth. It is totally led by lay-members. A small neighborhood group starts and grows with the clear vision to separate and spread. (an ideal model for underground church, should we ever need to go underground)
My wife and I were intrigued at the idea and concept and both of us thought this the way forward. Local mission, local outreach, local evangelism, meeting local needs with local Adventists.... brilliant. But, then came the crunch, they would only "sell" you the concept if you gave all the Tithe to the nearest Mission, to pay for a pastor and a church building that we would never use. This destroyed the whole concept for us. It is not that we want money, we are, after all, lay people. But the Tithe should be used for the forwarding of the Gospel. It all seemed a little corrupt to us, to the extent that we did not go ahead.
Would it not worship God more, if the means He has give would be used to further His work ??
I am keen to hear your advice/comments.
Blessings, Scott.
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Permalink Reply by David Mathew on -
I fully do agree with you that you have done the right thing and not sold out to them. They are clearly showing that their God is money and has no concern for any souls...
God bless you for taking a consceintous stand and being an example for the sake of the word.
DM
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Permalink Reply by Metacognition on -
Hi Brother Scott,
I did my own research as I had never heard of this concept.
Here is the official link for Simple Church for SDA church--->CLICK<--- I watched the video -it is so obviously a Sunday church initiative -are we to rebaptise it as it were as fit for SDAs?
This is endorsed by the NAD not the GC. Some other Divisions are piloting it though.
"Can I start a Simple Church and still attend my regular church? (emphasis mine)Simple Church prioritizes relationships with secular, and unchurched people. And these relationships take time, lots of time.
Foundational to missionary work is that they "go" and leave their comfort zones for the specific purpose of reach unreached people.
It use to be that a missionary would "go" overseas, learn a new language, eat new food, wear different clothes, and immerse themselves in a new culture. Everything around them constantly reminded them, "I am a missionary". It was physically impossible for the missionary to keep ones foot involved in their regular/conventional church and put their other foot in the mission field. They had to choose between the two. This was a blessing in disguise.
For simple church missionaries, it can be tempting to try to stay involved with ones existing church and "add" simple church missionary work. This complicates life and ignores the priority of making more time to spend with unreached people.
This is why simple church is intentional about simplifying the "religious rat race" so that you have more time (not less) to spend with secular and unchurched people." source
This is an evangelical initiative--->WIKIPEDIA<---
Another article-->CLICK<---
LIFE institute training sessions--->CLICK<---
Trap 1 False motivation—a Simple Church group established as an expression by people disgruntled with regular Adventist church and organisation, or for the purpose of promoting an individual brand of theology or a particular ―hobby horse‖ or point of view
Trap 2 Misplaced target—a Simple Church group established to appeal to current Adventist members, or to Christians from other backgrounds
Trap 3 Misplaced purpose—a Simple Church group established primarily as a feeder or recruitment tool for an existing Adventist congregation (Simple Church may sometimes be a feeder, but the primary purpose is to establish more and more Simple Church units as a pathway of evangelism and overall church growth)
Trap 4 Poor attitude—a Simple Church group established as an act of free-spirited independence from the umbrella community of faith; or as a personal point of superiority or pride (New Testament simple churches were closely associated with the apostles, accountable to them, and respectful of their role) sourceMany thanks
Meta
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Permalink Reply by Scott on
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Hi Meta, grace and peace.
We were introduced to this through our Pastor who invited us down to the BUC (British Union Conference) who held 3 days on Simple Church. I was not aware that this was a non SDA model and it was presented to us in such a way that we were led to believe it was SDA in origin.
So, in answer to your question, yes, it would appear as if it would be re-baptized SDA.
The idea and concept isn't at all bad, it was the SDA slant that killed it for us. i.e. Paying Tithe into the church, allowing them access to control, defeating the intention and purpose of a localized mission-based concept. Not that I would want to "split" from Adventism in any way shape or form.
I think "oxymoron" may be the a fitting description, my English was never good. A "contradiction of concept" may describe it equally well. the one defeats the purpose of the other...etc
Blessings, Scott.
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Permalink Reply by Kristina Pauly on -
I would have to say that most simply put that yes as far as scripture is concerned at least %10 is asked of us, but like with anything else it like many other things in our walk with and to God has to be the choice of the individual.. Much like keeping the Sabbath yes we should, but the Holy Spirit convicts us in our own times, and cercumstances. No one should be pushed to practice anything they don't believe in, because the scripture also tells us we are judged by the light we are given..
I think it is also important to remember though that often we are the tools in God's hand and that it is our responsibility to lovingly, gently, and tactfully share this and every other truth with the fullness of scripture to back it up. What a man does after that is between him and God.
On the other issue at hand, if for any reason you don't feel the particular ministry you are working with is lacking the right intentions, or teachings Sister White even stated that
(forgive me I am paraphrasing) There are many other SDA ministry that we can give our tithe to.. Just remember to mark it as tithe so the ministry can put it to the right use as God commanded.
Walter Vieth's ministry (Amazing Discoveries) gets a lot of our tithes..
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Permalink Reply by JohnB on -
HI David, interesting post. Personally, I have been making the same point for many years now. Tithing is not "obligatory" in that it is not a test of fellowship, so by making an obligatory deduction it is, as you say, removing the choice as to whether we follow God or not in this respect.
As to Scott's post... I have always felt that the "small groups" model is a very good method of church growth however, what Scott has described is beginning to sound a bit more like congregationalism and defeats the purpose of Conferences - the sisterhood of churches.
My theory is that ten people returning their tithe pays for the pastor, the next ten pay for a full-time evangelist, the next ten(?) pays for the outreach, etc. Unfortunately, the theory breaks down somewhat when it comes to paying for a church building yet we have the same problems in our churches today so a healthy freewill offering should pay for the weekly running costs.
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Permalink Reply by OSING on -
Is TDS meaning "someone else is tithing my income for me?" I have been a denominational employee all my working days life, and the so-called TDS, as mentioned in this forum, IF DONE WITHOUT CONSENT OF THE EMPLOYEE, becomes a TDS. But, because I allowed it to be extracted from my base pay, I HAD RETURNED MY TITHE TO THE LORD. To call it "someone else paying tithe on my behalf" misses the point. I am RETURNING MY TITHE, and have allowed the organization do THE RETURNING IN MY BEHALF. It is MY TITHE which is being deducted, and it has always been done WITH MY CONSENT. And as the book of Malachi has beautifully penned the promise, God has miraculously blessed the TITHE RETURNING process, I can cite many instances of God blessing me and my family.
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Permalink Reply by Ray Phillips on -
OSING and forum
The discussion is interesting, let me throw in another aspect. Today we have direct deposit and bill pay. I have both. The moneies coming to me are directly deposited to my bank account. Then the "bill pay" function come into play. I have it set up so that my tithe and offerings are automatically taken out of my account and sent to the various entites.
Now, in just what way is this different from what has been discussed? In both cases, I chose as to whether the funds are appropriated to the various destinations. In just what way is that different from having tithe taken out before someone is paid?
Maranatha :)
Ray
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Permalink Reply by OSING on
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Bro Ray: I responded to the thought "someone else paying tithe on my behalf" on the premise of this forum. What has been done within our Union, and within some parts of our division, is that we the denominational employees have authorized our employer, through its accounting channel, to deduct "MY PERSONAL TITHE" from my base pay, and all that tithe had been put together into a common account TITHES PAYABLE by the organization to the Union Tithe income. Most of us denominational workers feel it is a proper procedure, and in a way, relieves us of having to return the tithe to the local church where our membership is. In my case, I rarely attend the church where my membership is in the mission, due to the nature of the employment I do regularly. A mission departmental director, as part of his routine ministry, travel around the field, attending to various functions, especially that of being a youth director, our presence is sought in many functions of our respective ministries. How do I keep me and my family together? When the church I visit is near our home, I bring my wife and the kids, to the visitation programs, thus we have kept a closely knit Christian family intact. In fact, my oldest son decided to become a minister, because he had seen the beauty of church visitation. And I have always believed in returning my tithe to the church, and leave the management of tithe use to the organization. This has worked throughout my years ofr active ministry as a worker / ordained minister. I have an active honorary ministerial credential which will expire on December 31, 2015 now as a retired denominational employee. MARANATHA!!!
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Permalink Reply by Ray Phillips on
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Osing
Nor in any way was I attempting to downgrade the question. In fact, as I recall, when I was active ministry, the same thing was done then too.
No, my post was to bring in a similar situation that is outside of the ministry. Your actvities at your "advanced age," (Grin) is admirable. May God bless your efforts to serve Him.
Maranatha :)
Ray
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