Adventist Online

Is it heathen or christian to use the word TRINITY

Views: 611

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

The word Trinity is not used in the Bible, and Mrs. White never uses it; however Ellen White writes that "there are three living persons of the heavenly trio".

Trinity....semantics.

Amen Teresa no trinity 

I hope this makes sense, and hopefully it is relevant.

In our early days, our pioneers discovered a misleading translation in the KJV. Throughout Genesis chapters 1 thru 4, the word, "God", is translated from the Hebrew, "Elohim". But in Gen 3:5 the word Elohim is translated "gods" -- "and ye shall be as gods". Now it is not incorrect to translate Elohim as "gods", because Elohim is always plural. Yet when the Devil says to Eve, "you shall be as gods (literally, Elohim)", he is really saying "you shall be as God".

The Jews were staunchly monotheistic, and yet they have ALWAYS known that Elohim is plural, in the same sense that the word "men" is to be understood as a plural. The Jews entrenched themselves in their "oneness" concept of God, in spite of their own language, which was effectively saying to them, 'be careful on this point'. To me it is incredible, and yet it was this way so that they would deny Jesus when He made His claim to Divinity.

Stewart says:

... because Elohim is always plural. ...

James Responds

That is INCORRECT Stewart.

Notice

The Lord Himself applies this word to Moses, hence he says: "See I have made thee a God (Heb. Aleim - Latin Elohim) to Pharoah." (Exod. 7:1). -- Surely Moses did NOT consist of three persons.

The children of Heth gave the same title to Abraham when he applied to them for a burying place, they said: "Thou art a mighty prince among us." (Gen. 23:6). In the Hebrew it reads, "a mighty Aleim among us". - Yet Abraham was but one person.

Additional Commentary

The Trinitarians attempt to prove the doctrine of trinity From the Hebrew word Elohim, or as it is written without points, Aleim - which is the first word of the Hebrew Bible that is translated "God".

They think, that because Elohim/Aleim has a plural termination, there must be a plurality of persons in God.

But if we consider such notion, the fact of the matter is, regardless of all the weight that Trinitarians append to it, it will by no means prove their system.

Why? -  Because it may or may not be the dual number, (only refer to the Father and the Son). -- And, if it is used in a plural context, it may or may not only mean two; --- besides, let it be what number it may, it proves nothing about equality, nor eternity of persons.

Every scholar knows, and no Christian will deny, that Elohim/Aleim is a scriptural name of God ; -- therefore if the word Ehohim or Aleim means a plurality, then it follows that it must signify a plurality of Gods.

For example - If the word man is the right name of one male person of mature age, then the word men, which is the plural of man, must signify a plurality of such person.

So, if the word El or Al, in the singular, signifies one self-existent God, then Elohim/Aleim, which is in fact the plural of El or Al, must denote a plurality of self-existent Gods. 

Therefore, unless the immediate context of the word Elohim/Aleim explicitly specifies to the contrary, that plurality of Gods may be two, three, five, ten, one-hundred or several million.

But of course, no pious Trinitarian will acknowledge that he believes in more than one self-existent God. (Which profession in and of itself is a contradiction of their profession of three co-eternal, co-existent, etc, members ... -- and vice-versa).

Therefore they certainly ought to see that the argument proves too much for them, and thus proves nothing to support their false doctrine..

Hello James.
Thankyou for your post.

I would like to respond to some of the points you’ve presented.

#1. (Heb. Aleim - Latin Elohim) ?
James, am I mistaken in thinking that the pronunciation, Elohim, is valid? The pronunciation key given in Strongs for #430 is “el-o-heem”. It is essentially the same in Vine, Unger, and White’s Expository Dictionary. Do these authorities both err in that they uphold the Latin in place of the Hebrew? By representing Elohim as a Latin term, do you endeavor to vilify that word in some way?

#2.
Elohim in connection with Moses and Abraham.

Moses.
You wrote: “The Lord Himself applies this word to Moses, hence he says: "See I have made thee a God (Heb. Aleim - Latin Elohim) to Pharoah." (Exod. 7:1). -- Surely Moses did NOT consist of three persons.”

James, I appreciate that what I say here may not be acceptable, but other versions (including the Jewish Tanakh) translate this verse slightly differently.
The Amplified Version has, “Behold, I make you as God to Pharaoh...”
The Tanakh has, “See, I place you in the role of God to Pharaoh...”


Abraham.
Of the more than 2600 occurrences of #430, two of these are rendered “mighty”. One with reference to Abraham being a “mighty” [#430] prince [#5387], and the other with reference to the “mighty” thunderings spoken of by Pharaoh (during the plagues). Both these mentions are made by non-Hebrew people, when speaking of things they associate with God.

James, you appear to be mistaken when you say,
"Thou art a mighty prince among us." (Gen. 23:6). In the Hebrew it reads, "a mighty Aleim among us".

It appears that you accept that Elohim/Aleim can denote a plural. (And I agree, the word itself does not specify a numerical limit.) As I look in Strongs and other resources, the plurality of the term is clearly evident. (See Strongs #430.)

Stewart,

I'm sure you mean well. However, I am inclined to think you "missed the point" entirely.

So, allow me to reiterate:

You said:

"... Elohim is always plural. ...".

I showed you Exod. 7:1 concerning Moses, and Gen. 23:6 concerning Abraham.

Question: Did "Moses" consist of more than ONE person. - Answer: NO.

Question: Did "Abraham" consist of more than ONE person. - Answer: NO.

Thus, we have clear and simple Scripture verifying that "Aleim/Elohim" is NOT ALWAYS PLURAL.

Therefore, when the word Aleim/Elohim is being applied to any being of great dignity, the word is no "proof" that such being contains in himself a plurality of persons.

That, is/was the primary point of my earlier Post.

( As a side note, I could/should have mentioneded Exod. 32: v4, 8, 31 -- and inquired, if there were three persons in the golden calf? --- And I could also have mentioned Judges. 16: 23, 24. -- and pointed out that in every place where Dagon is called God (in this passage), the Hebrew is Aleim/Elohim. -- And concluded the passage by pointing out that even though Dagon is called Aleim/Elohim, there is NO probability that his worshippers (or the Hebrew Authors for that matter) regarded him as a triune God, or, as a being that consisted of three coequal persons. )

However,

I did notice that you later stated:

"... (And I agree, the word itself does not specify a numerical limit.) ..."

Thus, I will accept that you recognize (but haven't actually admitted) that "Aliem/Elohim" is not ALWAYS "plural".

Concerning your comments regarding:

"... make you as ..." - "... in the role of ..." - "mighty"

These really are moot points on your part, and at best only serve as a distration from the issue.

The issue being: Whether or not "... Elohim is always plural. ...".

Which it CLEARLY is NOT.

Concerning my earlier statement:

"Thou art a mighty prince among us." (Gen. 23:6). In the Hebrew it reads, "a mighty Aleim among us".

That was a "typo" error on my part.

It should have read:

"Thou art a mighty prince among us." (Gen. 23:6). In the Hebrew it reads, "a Aleim/Elohim prince among us".

I want to thank you for bringing that to my attention; and I apologize (to the reader) for any inconvenience.

Concerning your "point #1", and the questions therein:

I elect to refrain from comment at this time.

Does anyone here not believe that there are three individual Persons in the Godhead?

Yes me I believe that there are three distinct Person

Three distinct Person, singular?

Yes

Yes the Bible did say that we do not know nothing yet.

1Co 8:2
And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

But what I have gathered from my studies is that there is only one God who manifests himself in three distinct person. Great is the mystery of Godliness so this is truly a mystery we may never be able to comprehend it and we are not to try to logic it out in human thinking otherwise we will come up with three gods.

RSS

Site Sponsors

 

Adventist Single?
Meet other Single
Adventists here:
Join Free


USA members:

Support AO by
using this link:
Amazon.com

 

© 2019   Created by Clark P.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service