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The Rods claimed that Victor T. Houteff was the promised last days Elijah. Whether this is true or false now does it affect our Adventist Hope? Who is more important Houteff - the Elijah or Jesus our Soon Coming King?

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Why Did He Permit the Errors?

   For one to ask, Why did God allow errors to creep in among His people, and to be so widely circulated?  would be at the same time to ask, Why did He permit errors to come in among His ancient people to such an extent that they finally so obscured from view the very focal point of the entire ceremonial system -- the  great Infallible Waymark, the long expected Son of God -- that not only was He lost sight of but also, when He did come, was rejected and crucified  between thieves!

   The reason that the Jewish people were led into this dark and tragic course was that they rejected and killed the prophets, whom God sent to correct their erring ways, "till there was no remedy." 2 Chron. 36:16.  The experience of the church today has paralleled at every point that of the Jews.  In fact, "Said the  angel, 'Ye have done worse than they'." -- Testimonies, Vol. 1, p. 129.  Even from the very beginning, Israel  of today has said of the Testimonies: "...we will believe that portion which we think is of God, and will not heed the other." -- Testimonies, Vol. 1, p. 234.

   "Should the Lord give a vision right before this class of people in our day," further reveals the Spirit of Prophecy, "pointing out their mistakes, rebuking their self-righteousness and condemning  their sins, they would rise up in rebellion, like the inhabitants of Nazareth when Christ showed them their true condition." -- Testimonies,  Vol. 5, p. 689.

"There is no excuse for anyone in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error.  The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair.  No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation." -- "Counsels to Writers and Editors," p. 35.

As only God is infallible and more important, all His works spell "perfection" even to "one jot or one tittle."

 

Thanks VPRaul, appreciate and for this reason we must live in constant prayer at the foot of the cross so that the Lord will reveal in and through us what He wants.Must be careful not to embrace anything other than the thus saith the Lord. If we walk with Jesus all along our pilgrim journey we will never go wrong. Friend fix your gaze on Jesus and heaven.

Love

Sis. Redva

Peace Alexander

It is funny the way you said that "Houteff made so many mistakes that can't be accepted by his followers, that is why some accept Houteff over Sister White as Spirit of Prophecy." Let us be honest Alexander your statement is difficult to understand for if he or anyone made so many mistakes why would they be regard as above another prophet? As to Daniel 2, I believe that you have not sat down and studied the Bible or the SOP on the subject.

I quote 1Pe 2:4-5  "To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,  Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ."

You have to admit that Scripture calls Jesus a living stone and his followers lively stones. In Daniel 2 the prophet speaks about Kingdoms is he not? The Scripture brings to our mind that there is a Kingdom to be set up, and that is Alex is of God.

Dan 2:34-35  "Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth. " This vision is about the Kingdoms on earth, 1)Babylon 2)Medo-Persia 3)Greacia 4) Rome 5) in the Our time the period of broken down Rome.  Notice that the stone smote the image after the it had been cut out of the mountain without hands. When was that stone cut out of the mountain? Was it not in the days of these Kings? When Jesus comes to earth He does not establish anything on this earth till after the 3rd coming now I'm mistaken fell free to correct me.

Dan 2:44-45  "And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure."

In the days of these kings and not after these kings, I believe it to be a fact that it will be established. This establishing part is what confuses the majority nevertheless it will not be moved as Truth. This Kingdom which is God's will never be destroyed and will be here till Jesus comes to take His Saints Home.. Quoting  "Zec 14:4 -5 "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.  And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee."

Is it not amazing how this prophecy in Zechariah have a double application from His Kingdom being established to His 2nd coming for He does not touch the earth till In his 3rd coming" the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee."

"In that day."  In what day? -- In the day all nations gather against Jerusalem that now is, and bring its fall from Gentile rule.  In that day the Lord's feet shall stand upon the Mount of Olives.  The Mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, there shall be a very great valley; "and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south." Zech. 14:4.  The Lord's post-millennial coming, too, shall be similar to this.  See Early Writings, pp. 51, 52.

As to the statement of Jerusalem is sounds like you are not sure and it is dishonest as to what the Scriptures and SOP speak about. In Daniel 2 the Mountain is a symbol of the people of God living in the "latter days" you have to admit that we are living in those days therefore the conclusion is clear that the mountain is the church of Laodicea, Volume 3, pages 252-257, 260: "The message to the church of the Laodiceans is a startling denunciation, and is applicable to the people of God at the present time..

 

Below Alex , I have  placed a scan of a letter straight from the GC. take a look.

OK Alex, thanks and welcome. I like your frankness.

Love

Redva

Alex

I find that you are just talk. Now this Stone is Jesus for He is in the person of His Saints. The prophet that speaks the most about the Stone is Daniel. If you can't accept Daniel, you will not accept Zechariah, or any of the Prophets, take a look at Jeremiah and Zechariah.

Jer 23:5  Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Jer 23:6  In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Jer 23:7  Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
Jer 23:8  But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.

1) Gods people came out of Egypt, 2) God's people came out from Babylon, 3) Gods people will come out of every country that Gods people are and where you say they go? They go to there own land  promised to our father Abraham. This is not me talking it is the Scriptures you think you hold dear but do you really

Zec 12:3  And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

Isa 34:16  Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.

Where is your Scripture text or a Thus Saith the Lord. Daniel is Much clearer than you that the Stone is Jesus's Kingdom yes. More can be said about this, let us see what Jesus says about His Kingdom.  Act 1:6,7 " When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?  And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power."  Notice He(Jesus) did not say NO! It will not be established but He emphatically  said "It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power."

Now you are the one that is rejecting the prophets, Daniel, EGW and are taking Uriah Smith as your prophet above inspiration whether you know it or not.

 

To everyone, God bless and take care.

VP, like your post, it is interesting. Uriah Smith is known by some Adventist (those who study the history of the church in details) as one who contributes to the history not as a prophet. Ellen White is known by all Adventist as a prophetess and she is indeed. All agree that JESUS is the rock on which the church is built, He is the Stone cut out of the mountain and fill the world world. He will be setting up a Kingdom that will never be destroyed. I hate to hear or read of my sweet, beautiful, wonderful, gracious and marvellous Saviour being compared with Ellen G White as great as she is; with Uriah Smith despite the great contribution he made and worst with VTH who Adventist don't even know. Jesus is incomparable, undisputed and undefeated Champion of and for all humanity. Let us talk more about Him. Praise the Lord.

Sis.

Redva

Christ Receives His Kingdom

TEXT: And in the days of these kings shall the God of Heaven set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever." Dan.2:44.

The second chapter of Daniel introduces five universal kingdoms which were to succeed each other. The first four kingdoms are earthly and perishable. The fifth is immortal, and will stand forever. The first four kingdoms are represented by the great metallic image, the several parts of which are composed of gold, silver, brass, and iron mixed with clay. When these shall be broken in pieces, and entirely removed, then will the immortal kingdom fill the whole earth. We will now call attention to Dan.2:31-45

(The stone of Daniel 2 represented God Kingdom of Glory). “The kingdom here mentioned is not a SPIRITUAL KINGDOM ESTABLISHED IN THE MIND AND HEARD (PALESTINA) OF MORTAL MEN.” Bible Adventism.

The establishment of the eternal kingdom is by a succession of events, the first of which occurs prior to the destruction of earthly governments.

1. The Son of God, at the close of his ministration for sinners, and before his second appearing, will receive the kingdom from the Father. In the seventh chapter of this prophetic book we read these words:
"I saw in the night visions, and behold, one like the Son of Man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom, that which shall not be destroyed." Dan.7:13, 14.
This language describes a grand transaction in Heaven between the Father and the Son. The Son, at his second advent to this world, does not approach the Father. So far from this, that the apostle represents the Father as remaining in Heaven, and sending his Son. "And he [the Father] shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you." Acts 3:20.

The words of the Psalmist are to the point: "Ask of me [says the Father to the Son], and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron, thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel." Ps.2:8, 9.

Before the Son makes his second advent to this world, he receives from the Father "dominion, and glory, and a kingdom." The heathen are his, and the uttermost parts of the earth are his possession. Thus the God of Heaven sets up the kingdom by investing his Son with royal authority before sending him to manifest it in the earth among his enemies.

2. After the coronation of the King of kings, the opening heavens will reveal him coming in grandeur and in glory, leading on the armies of Heaven to the last great conflict with the beast, the false prophet, and the kings of the earth.
See Rev.19. "His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns." "And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, "Kings of kings, and Lord of lords." His mission then will be to "judge and make war."
On one side will be the beast, and the kings of the earth and their enemies; and on the other side will be the King of kings, followed by all the holy angels. The armies of Heaven achieve a glorious victory.

"And the beast was taken, and with him, the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth."

In Rev.19, we see the complete destruction of all wicked men, or the dashing of the nations in pieces as a potter's vessel, (comp. Rev. 2:27) or the image broken by the stone, and utterly destroyed and removed like the chaff before the wind. (Dan. 2:35) The destruction of the enemies of the Lord, represented by the several names of "man of sin, " "mystery of iniquity, " and "that wicked, " is thus described by the apostle - "whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the with the brightness of his coming." 2 Thess.2:8.

3. At the second advent of Christ, the righteous dead will be raised, the living righteous will be changed, and thus the subjects of the eternal kingdom will be made immortal. 1 Thess.4:14-18; 1 Cor.15:51-55. This is the first resurrection at the commencement of the millennium.

4. The immortal subjects of the kingdom will ascend with their Lord to the eternal city, and reign with him in the judgment of the wicked a thousand years, during which time the earth will be desolate. We have seen from New-Testament testimony that all wicked men will be destroyed at the second advent. See 2 Thess.1:7-9; 2:7, 8; Matt.13:26-30, 37-43; 3:12; Luke 17:26-30. The prophets of the Old Testament clearly describe the desolation of the earth during the millennium. See Isa.6:8-11; 13:9; 24:1-3; 34:1-15; 28:21, 22; Jer.4:20, 27; 25:32-38; Zeph.1:2, 3; 3:6-8.

5. At the close of the millennium, the wicked will be raised from the dead. "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished." Rev.20:5 They will then be destroyed. "And fire came down from God out of Heaven, and devoured them." Rev.20:9. Satan, and all the fallen angels, and all wicked men, will then be consumed by the fire of Jehovah's wrath. Rev.20:10; Matt.25:41; 2 Pet.2:4; Jude 6.
In the general conflagration of that time, the old earth and atmospheric heaven will pass away from the face of Him that sitteth on the great white throne. Rev.20:11. "The heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also; and the works that are therein shall be burned up." 2 Pet.3:10.

6. From the old earth, melted and cleansed from sin and sinners, will come forth, molded by the hand of the great Restorer, the new earth, free from all the marks of the curse. "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away." Rev.21:1. Then will be fulfilled the words of David: "For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be; yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. But the meek shall inherit the earth, and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace." Ps.37:10, 11.

And Christ refers to the same in his sermon on the mount. "Blessed are the meek; for they shall inherit the earth." Matt.5:5.

It is at the close of the one thousand years of Revelation 20, after the final destruction of all God's enemies, that "the saints of the Most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom forever, even forever and ever." "And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom." Dan.7:18, 27.

Then will the kingdom in all its parts - the King, the subjects, the territory, the holy city being the metropolis - be complete. Then the stone will have become a great mountain, so as to fill the whole earth.

James S. White.
From the book Bible Adventism

My God bless

Benicio.

Don't 99% of SDA do the same thing with Ellen White writings?

 

Ellen White is a true prophetess even the Catholics concede. She has not claimed to be Elijah, neither does the SDA church say that she is.

 

Love

Sis. Redva

Yes of course, awesome credibilty because a catholic may have said so?
Unbelievable reasoning,

 

VP thanks. Your post is very comprehensive. I am not certain if I am understanding some of your interpretations so I will  have to do some further checking.

Hi Redva

I have posted a ref from the SOP about Elijah and notice the date, 2 years after the the rejection of the 1888 message.  She(EGW) is the one writing.  So Let Heaven Guide!

     Prophecy must be fulfilled. The Lord says: "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord." Somebody is to come in the spirit and power of Elijah,  and when he appears, men may say: "You are too earnest, you do not interpret the Scriptures in the proper way. Let me tell you how to teach your message."  {TM 475.3}
     There are many who cannot distinguish between the work of God and that of man. I shall tell the truth as God gives it to me, and I say now, If you continue to find fault, to have a spirit of variance, you will never know the truth. Jesus said to His disciples, "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now." They were not in a condition to appreciate sacred and eternal things; but Jesus promised to send the Comforter, who would teach them all things, and bring all things to their remembrance, whatsoever He had said unto them.  {TM 475.4}
     Brethren, we must not put our dependence in man. "Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of? You must hang your helpless souls upon Jesus. It does not become us to drink from the fountain of the valley when there is a fountain in the mountain. Let us leave the lower streams; let us come to the higher springs. If there is a point of truth that you do not understand, upon which you do not agree, investigate, compare scripture with scripture, sink the shaft of truth down deep into the mine of God's word. You must lay yourselves and your opinions on the altar of God, put away your preconceived ideas, and let the Spirit of heaven guide into all truth.--Review and Herald, Feb. 18, 1890.  {TM 476.1}


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