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I see numerous individuals who are quick to give their take on the SDA church and the corruption that is rampant within it. My question is how is this type of criticism beneficial? Also what are the basic fundamental topics that should be under discussion for the time period in which we are currently living in?

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We have to admit the wrong we have done and seek forgiveness of the Lord and restoration before we can be in a position to be taken credible by the Christian and non-Christian community--and our children.   

Explain what you mean and how does that answer my question?

I see numerous individuals who are quick to give their take on the SDA church and the corruption that is rampant within it. My question is how is this type of criticism beneficial? Also what are the basic fundamental topics that should be under discussion for the time period in which we are currently living in?

Brian, you asked how it is beneficial to critical of the "corruption" within the church.  First, it would have to do with the spirit in which issues are presented or addressed and then what the desired.  Those whose aim is to destroy the Church will be dealt with by God Himself.

At the same time, we have to acknowledge that the SDA Church has made mistakes.  The Bible tells us to confess our sins and that Jesus is faithful and just to forgive and cleanse us.  This also applies to the Church. when we are transparent and honest about our missteps, it is easier to move forward in 2012 for the Kingdom of God.  Communication is important and essential in healing.  Jesus healed before He taught doctrine--he met the people's immediate needs first.  

Whatever issues impact people from seeing Jesus in us as Christians--Seventh-day Adventist Christians needs to be addressed.

Sarah, i fail to see how you answered Brian's question. Read your post again and see if you answered the question.

It is beneficial:

1.  If the Holy Spirit has stated that we are to speak it....and not just that "we" (humans) think that it should be addressed.  Too many people "speak" without permission from God (self-righteousness) and end up creating a mess for the Church and the cause of God as Christians.

2.  If our motives are for the success of the Church and those past, present, and future who are a part of it.  People cannot grow emotionally and/or spiritually healthy in an environment where they are not able to talk about their hurts and when people --even the church makes a mistake.  1 Corinthians 13 states that even if a person has everything--including the "truth" (used loosely), it means nothing if there is not any love exercised by that person.  In fact, the love is a sign of the Holy Spirit's transformation of the person inside out.  

The effectiveness then of the 3 Angels Message has to do with not only the knowledge of the Revelation 14 (legalism), but also--if not more to do with the way those who profess to have this knowledge are in genuine relationship with the Lord...and how they treat those within the Household of Faith.  1 John is clear:  if we say we love the Lord who we have never seen but do not love those around us, we are a liar and do not love the Lord at all. (1 John 4:7-21; 1 John 3:11-21).

3.  Repeating what I previously posted:  Whatever issues impact people from seeing Jesus in us as Christians-- as Seventh-day Adventist Christians needs to be addressed.

I hope this begins to better explain what I was meant in my previous posts.

For the second time: i agree with you Teresa. I just hope you mean what you wrote. God bless.

Hello Brian, grace and peace.

Isa 58:1  Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins. 

It is only beneficial to the individual who seeks Truth. To reprove someone who has not the humility needed to accept it, it will only cause strife.

Pro 10:8  The wise in heart will receive commandments: but a prating fool shall fall. 

But either-way we are not to keep silent:

Eze 3:11  And go, get thee to them of the captivity, unto the children of thy people, and speak unto them, and tell them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear. 

The topics we should be discussing are those of present Truth.

The present Truth message for Sister Whites time were the messages that brought them out of the protestant Churches given in 1842,3+4. This time is to repeat to the very letter and is therefore relevant to our time.

 We have, as had John, a message to bear of the things which we have seen and heard. God is not giving us a new message. We are to proclaim the message that in 1843 and 1844 brought us out of the other churches. We need the Holy Spirit to kindle in our hearts the zeal and earnestness that were then seen among God's people. I thank the Lord that there are still living a few who can remember those days, and who know whereof they speak.  {RH, January 19, 1905 par. 22}  

 In reviewing our past history, having traveled over every step of advance to our present standing, I can say, Praise God! As I see what God has wrought, I am filled with astonishment, and with confidence in Christ as leader. We have nothing to fear for the future, except as we shall forget the way the Lord has led us, and His teaching in our past history. {CET 204.1}  

All the messages given from 1840-1844 are to be made forcible now, for there are many people who have lost their bearings. The messages are to go to all the churches. {21MR 437.1}
Christ said, "Blessed are your eyes, for they see; and your ears, for they hear. For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them" [Matthew 13:16, 17]. Blessed are the eyes which saw the things that were seen in 1843 and 1844. {21MR 437.2}
The message was given. And there should be no delay in repeating the message, for the signs of the times are fulfilling; the closing work must be done. A great work will be done in a short time. A message will soon be given by God's appointment that will swell into a loud cry. Then Daniel will stand in his lot, to give his testimony. {21MR 437.3}

The Truths that brought them out of the other churches were the Truths found on the 1843 and 1850 charts. 

The Truths under controversy in our Church today, which are found on those charts, are: 1 The correct understanding of the daily (Paganism. Daniel 8:13). 2. The two indignations of God, the 2520 (Leviticus 25+26). 3. The understanding of Islam's role in Bible prophecy (5th, 6th and 7th Trumpet. 1st, 2nd and 3rd Woes).

Isa 5:20  Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! 

Jer 23:1  Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.

The messages given will convict of sin, righteousness and judgment. The 3 Angels messages.


My question is how is this type of criticism beneficial?

I personally do not believe its beneficial unless it comes with the intent to correct what needs correcting.

Often times criticism takes on a life of its own and can actually damage the church instead of helping it to thrive. 

For instance your question was prefaced with two words that catches the eye "corruption" and "rampant".  

Those two words in themselves bring up imagery of a church that is no longer serving its purpose and can in tthemselves begin a tailwind of speculation.  Especially to those outside of the fray looking inward.


As for the fundamental topics that should be under discussion for the time period in which we are currently living...Its my opinion the topics should focus on reaching not only those who have not heard the message but also those who have received the message at one time but for whatever reason are no longer part of God's Church.



Who has Satan attacked the hardest?  It is those who are closest to the truth.  Those who Satan has in his grasp, he blesses and makes them seem to be doing well.  Jesus was the most perfect and He was nailed to a cross.  But, Judas, did not seem to have any problems, that is until his probation was closed.  Then it all fell in on him.


As for leaders who stray from God's leading, they should be addressed, however, in a Christian manner.  To go along with a false shepherd, just because he is a shepherd, is not a response that will lead to the Kingdom of God. 


As for the Basic Fundamentals we should be aware of, the Bible gives a list of those.

    "Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,  [2] and of instruction about washings, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment." Hebrews 6:1-2 (ESV) 

These elementary doctrines of Christ are:

  1. Repentence from dead works
  2. Faith towards God
  3. Baptism (instructions about washings).
  4. Laying on of hands, i.e. ordination of spiritual leaders
  5. The Resurection of the dead.
  6. The Eternal judgement.


Some call some of these "unessential," but Jesus calls them the elementary doctrines.  On these, all the others are built upon.


Maranatha :)

I have read the posts made by everyone.  I personally think that criticism is a distraction that keeps us from coming to a full understanding of the divine character of God.  We are quick to look at others and silently inquire to ourselves "what about him or her?'  Jesus actually dealt with this issue with Peter at the end of the gospel of John (John 21). Peter was looking at John and asking Jesus "what about him?" He simply told Peter that if he wanted John to be alive until he came again what was that to Peter. Jesus simply told Peter to follow him. If the goal is heaven then God should be our focus and we should eschew anything that gets in the way of that focus including our criticisms of each other or the church in general. Just my opening thoughts. I think in our focus on others, we forget about the majesty and power of God; which is precisely what Satan wants us to do. So I do not think this type of criticism or focus on others is beneficial. I do hope I am making sense. 

Brian, I agree completly. You hit the nail on the head. Its a silly distraction. And anyway, when people say the adventist church this or that, as if its one person. If you are an adventist!


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