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What does SDA belief number 18 mean? By saying that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested does in mean that we should test Ellen White line by line with the Bible and only accept the parts that can be tested as an authoritative source of truth; or is Ellen White supposed to be tested overall by the Bible and if she passes then everything she wrote is an authoritative source of truth?

The downside of the the first approach is that good counsel could be missed if the criteria is too tight; the downside of the second approach is that by giving Ellen White what is in effect Ex Cathedra authority it would be hard to maintain that the church is sola scriptura.

Is there room for both interpretations in Adventism, or is only one interpretation valid?

18. The Gift of Prophecy: One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

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Sola Scriptura, "Only Scripture" is the only sure foundation.  It is the only method to keep from being deceived. 

God has spoken directly to me.  That does not make me a prophet.  God has spoken directly in vision to my son.  That does not make him a prophet.  I can see no worthy counsel to impose on the corporate body based on what God has spoken to me, or my son has seen in vision.  The fact that it has happened, is merely a fulfillment of scripture regarding the pouring out of the Spirit at the end of the world as it approaches.

We are also told that the very elect would be deceived if possible.  And within our body, people are putting forward quotes out of context from Mrs. White to push their own agendas, and not hers.  Thus, they send a destructive message tot he body.

It is our personal responsibility to know why we believe what we believe and be firm in that resolve.  Otherwise we will be like a leaf in the wind, being blown about by every wind of personal doctrine that blows through the church with the various separatist movements that have come from the Church, from the Historics to the Davidians.

It's beautiful that God speaks to you and your son. God gives guidance to those who will listen to His voice. Both individually and as groups.

"Sola scriptura" is the test for any revelation of God as you state. The Isaiah verse you quote surely applies. But it is NOT the only way that God guides, teaches or leads His children - and not the only way God exerts authority.

1 Thess 5:19 - 21: Do not quench the Spirit. Do not despise prophecies, but test everything; hold fast what is good.

True, Marko.  When my son told me of his vision, I asked him to describe to me what He saw and compared it to what is known in scripture of heaven and what Christ looks like, down to the scars in His hands.  He got a glimpse of things, I must admit I am envious of.  As I asked for details, I was checking them off in my head as the pertain to scripture and what we know of Jesus.  It must be a beautiful thing to meet Yashua in a dream.  He had two such dreams.  In the second, he was given counsel on two items of His entertainment preferences that were to be put away because they would injure his mind.  To this day, he refuses to go near them.

For my part, at another church where I was not part of the nominating committee, I was up for a position, and when I was looking at my watch out the window God spoke and said, "They have not selected you."

In retrospect that was a good thing, as that church turned into a toxic mess that disintegrated on itself.

But, when my wife returned home, before she should speak, I told her what God said and the very time He said it.  She looked surprised and asked, "How did you know?"

I answered simply, "God told me."

God spoke plainly and there was no mistaking is voice.

This is just what is supposed to happen as the Holy Spirit is poured out more abundantly on us as the Later Rain comes.

As I said.  I am not prophet, neither is my son.  It is merely a fulfillment of scripture and demonstrates that the End is very very near.

You better figure out what it means, because if you aren't fully reconciled with any part of any of the 41 statements of faith, and an officer finds out, you will be disfellowshipped.  Then the pastor will announce to the church board that you have turned your back on the church.  Then, they will all feel it is their duty to shun you, and feel increasingly uncomfortable around you, until eventually one of them complains that you make them uncomfortable.  Then the pastor will file a police report, and notify you that if you ever show up on church property, you will be arrested for trespassing.

That's what happened to me, so if it happens to you, know that you'll have a shoulder to cry on.  But, I won't be going to any Christian Rock concerts with you.  Sorry.

Rush4hire, I know what the first 28 beliefs are, what are the next 13?

Marko L:

"Doesn't "sola scriptura" always conflict with a God who continues to speak to His people?"

But, when He speaks to His people, He always quotes from the Bible:

John 14:26    But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.  

Ecc.  1:9    The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.  
 1:10    Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

Rush, the Bible is not exclusively the literal speech of Jesus on earth. And by far is it not exhaustive. John 14:26 is exactly my point. The Holy Spirit will teach us. This promises God's active and ongoing teaching - and this verse does not mention the Bible or restrict the Spirit's work to it. And applying Ecclesiastes the way you do wouldn't that nullify all scripture after Salomon? Or contradict Hebrews 1:1+2?

I don't intend to lessen the Bible's meaning. But it's obviously not all that God has in store for those who wish to listen.


Then what do you do with people who present opinion that violates the clear tenets of scripture and then present a misquote from a compilation in order to push forward a false doctrine?  The Bible must be our sole refuge and standard to ward off the nonsense of such charlatans, otherwise we are subject to being led into further deception.  

I think you've given the answer yourself when you say there is violation of clear biblical tenets. The Bible remains God's word and the guideline for God's people. But it is not the only way in which God speaks to His people.

To me it sounds like you're saying that the discovery of doctrine and understanding of God ended with the canonization of the Bible.

If it contradicts scripture, it cannot be from God.

Isaiah 8:20, "Consult God’s instruction and the testimony of warning. If anyone does not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn." 

I do not blame the Prophetess this way, I blame the person who twists her words to bend them and others to their will.  That is where I see the obvious contradiction with scripture.

deja vu

One mentionned about one week ago, that Mrs White is against the bible when she  said that her books guides us. I was studying management, and I can say that management principles guides me in my daily life. Does it mean that I am a fanatic, because the bible and Holy spirit are our only guide? No. if someone says that he can get guidance from EG White books , it does not mean that EG books are above the bible, and EG White never said so.

Why some people do not like EG White? There are things that are misunderstood in what she says. For instance, she said that it was a sin to buy a bycicle. We always need to look at the context by asking two questions When and Why. When: she said this  at the time  where it took more than one month salary to buy a bycicle; some people bought bycicle at the cost of the wellbeing of his family: no regular food at thome because the money was spent for buying a bycicle.

Why adventist are few in the western world, and today many have left the church? The bible says in Revelation 12 : 17 that the remnant are people who obey god’s commandment (bible)and have the gift of prophecy(including EG White, Rev 19: 10). What does remnant imply? We are many at church, but as crisis is increasing in number and frequence at end times, only few adventist members will remain in church. So, if god gave the prophecy, we need to take and use it. In my country, in the southern emesphere, we read EG White books on Wednesdays at church, and everyday along with sabbath school (bible), as are result adventist rate is high, and people are not leaving the church. Exceptionally, those who do not read EG White along the bible are in critical situation, and leave church easily when problems come.

To know something or someone, one needs to  be acquainted with that person, which means read her books during one year, not just a couple of paragraphs, otherwise one risks of giving a false judgment. 


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