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Eph 3:14 ¶ For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
 15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
 16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

This is the only verse in Scripture that defines Elohiym  or Theos or GOD as a simple English word.

This word is the word "family".

What do other SDA people think of this verse?

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Does digging for truth bother you? Just because truth is hard to discover, doesn't mean we can't dig for it. You never answered my query why Jesus called the HS "wisdom", as an intentional Name? Why did He do this?

SHalom

Peace  

 oh Gene.... Is our discussion over?

Reasoning.... is our discussion over?

You're doing the same to me as Gene does to you....

Not willing to investigate Scripture carefully.

I was able to convince Ian on AO but I cannot convince you because you do not want to read the Scripture correctly.

You never answered my query why Jesus called the HS "wisdom", as an intentional Name? Why did He do this? 

Notice the verse:

Lu 7:35 But wisdom is justified of all her children.

Notice the way the KJV writes the verse using "her".

Pr 1:20 ¶ Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:

Same idea, using wisdom as a personification, but of whom?

Pr 1:23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.
 24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;

Notice God's spirit is poured out on those who understand the Bible words.

Pr 3:18 She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her.
 19 The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens.

Here is a clue to who wisdom is

Ps 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

The Hebrew word behind "breath" here is the HS.

Shalom

Peace


Rob wrote: "Reasoning.... is our discussion over? You're doing the same to me as Gene does to you.... Not willing to investigate Scripture carefully. I was able to convince Ian on AO but I cannot convince you because you do not want to read the Scripture correctly."

That's funny Rob... Trust me, nobody here has engaged you on this subject more than I have... and it's been base on studying, investigating scripture carefully, so I have been willing, despite what you say brother Rob. I'm not sure what Ian (aka Elijah) believes, perhaps he can share what he has learned, but with all due respect to Ian, is that supposed to mean something to me?


But let's go over where we are in this discussion. Perhaps nobody engages you in this discussion is because SOP says this,

 EGW: "It is not essential for us to be able to define just what the Holy Spirit is. Christ tells us that the Spirit is the Comforter, “the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father.” It is plainly declared regarding the Holy Spirit that, in His work of guiding men into all truth, “He shall not speak of Himself.” John 15:26; 16:13. – {AA 51.3}
The nature of the Holy Spirit is a mystery. Men cannot explain it, because the Lord has not revealed it to them. Men having fanciful views may bring together passages of Scripture and put a human construction on them, but the acceptance of these views will not strengthen the church. Regarding such mysteries, which are too deep for human understanding, silence is golden. – AA p.52

 Unfortunately for you, because most SDA follows what SOP says, by keeping silent,  you take that and assume that you have truth and no one can contest your beliefs. Chasing and challenging people here because you believe we should call the Holy she as pose to He. That's it in a nutshell right? You have a problem with SDA fundamental #5 because it uses "He" when referring to the Holy Spirit... it bothers you when the SOP in the writings of EGW refers to the Holy Spirit as "He".

 Rob wrote: "Yes I am bothered a little by the SOP using the pronoun "he", but we also do not know the fuller context of her statements. A manuscript release is a compilation." 

  Let that set in for a moment... your bothered by the SOP, why? just because it goes against what your teaching. Your saying its a must we refer to the Holy as She, when the Bible and the SOP in the writings of EGW refers to the Holy as "He". So for me that's saying its ok to refer to the Holy Spirit as "He". There's no problem here like your making it out to be. 

EGW: "It is not essential for us to be able to define just what the Holy Spirit is..."

  

Rob wrote: "Silence is golden remember? I am only concerned because our Church is following traditions and precepts of men. Otherwise I don't care what individual SDA people believe. Again you didn't read my post did you? SOP says the nature of the Holy Spirit is a mystery, silence is golden, NOT the personality of the Holy Spirit."

 You believe it's essential to define just what the Holy Spirit is, you believe the personality of the Holy Spirit is essential to define. But SOP says this, 

 EGW: "It is plainly declared regarding the Holy Spirit that, in His work of guiding men into all truth, “He shall not speak of Himself.” John 15:26; 16:13.

  Once again, the Bible & SOP refers to the Holy Spirit as "He" and "Himself", I'm good with that, you may not like it, but hey mate! 

 
Rob wrote: "The only way you see "she or her" is when it's operating on it's own, which is rare, in the case of the Holy Spirit."

 You use this term ("Operating on its own") to say there are times when the Father is not flowing through and in the Holy Spirit... This is a term formulated by you, the Bible, nor does the SOP use that term, but you are using the term as foundation to present these rare cases you speak of Rob. I still gave you an opportunity to present it, your first example you were wrong, and you admitted it.

 Your first example you gave to prove this rare occurrence was Luke 3:22, let's take a look back...

Lu 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Rob wrote: "No need for Agency or Medium here. Son being baptised. Father in heaven speaking out. Holy Spirit shown in shape of a bird with wings. Do you agree with this simile of the Holy Spirit?"


Reasoning replied:You don't believe the Spirit of GOD The Father is, and flowing via, through and in the Holy Spirit that came down in a bodily shape like a dove?


Rob wrote: "No where does Luke 3:22 mention "Spirit of God"? where does it say that? it doesn't?"


Rob wrote: "no" --- "No mention of "spirit of God" in the verse."

 After numerous tries, you finally realized you misapplied scripture to support your theories, 


Rob wrote: "OK I am sorry I chose the wrong Bible passage to show you a rare case of the Holy Spirit operating on it's own. I am sorry I ever brought up Luke 3:22, OK, can we move on? Your right, I was wrong, the verse Luke 3:22 is not a good verse to show you the personality of the Holy Spirit."

Rob wrote: "OK I was wrong, Luke 3:22 is not a good verse to prove the Holy Spirit has wings like a bird, because this is also a picture of an agency, the Father may be the cause of the wings, the bird and the overall shape. I was stressed to read my Bible looking for verses, and I did not ask GOD for help." - "OK I was wrong. So can we move on?"

 If I wasn't studying and investigating like you falsely claim, then I've couldn't have showed you your errors. 

Rob wrote: "Notice the verse: Lu 7:35 But wisdom is justified of all her children.
Notice the way the KJV writes the verse using "her"."

Rob, I believe it is the “power of God and the wisdom of God;” for “wisdom is justified of her children. Because "her" is used doesn't mean the Father is not flowing through wisdom. 

Again, my belief is that the Father in every case is flowing through and in the Holy Spirit, I don't read anything talking about the Holy Spirit operating on His own like you say... So with my belief it'll be fine to refer to the Holy Spirit as "He", and you agree with this,


Rob wrote: " Yes, it would be fine to use the term "He" for the Holy Spirit, as it represents the Father and the Son, in the function of a Agency or Medium."

 Whatever you post that reference she or her doesn't mean the Father is not flowing through and in those references as you presume. 

 So that's my long answer to your question ,

 Rob wrote: "Reasoning.... is our discussion over?"

 My short answer is , YES!

 

In my view there is nothing wrong with referring to the Holy Spirit as "He", it's ok that SDA fundamental #5 uses "He" as well, just like Bible and the SOP does in multiple places. 

 Bless!

Well Reasoning I am surprised you answered, and after a long windy reply, you only point out my short fallings and mistakes as a human writer, not my passion for trying to show you a deeper truth.

In one evidence you write about you gleam over it, and disregard that "wisdom" is written as a "her".... no comment. nothing. It's just the flow of the Father through Wisdom, who functions as a "her".

Yes I agree Wisdom still allows the Father's word to flow through Wisdom, hence my child like attempt to explain cases "operating on it's own", but you shoot me down in flames, so easy to do to be a mocker, rather than edifying looking for truth. That's the difference between Ian and yourself.

Nobody is perfect in writing words. No even me.

You say the SOP uses "He" in her writings? Or are they simply the SOP quoting the KJV without correcting the errors in translation? SOP never once speaks of translation issues in Scripture.

Reasoning writes: "Rob, I believe it is the “power of God and the wisdom of God;” for “wisdom is justified of her children. Because "her" is used doesn't mean the Father is not flowing through wisdom.

Correct, I would agree with you here, but because of the Hebrew grammar, the use of pronouns, in these rare cases, because it is operating on it's own, the feminine gender grammar is translated correctly. This is the reason for my words in context, not to allow you to beat me up. But you fail to acknowledge this verse and the significance of it's meaning.

De 32:11 As an eagle stirreth up her nest, fluttereth over her young, spreadeth abroad her wings, taketh them, beareth them on her wings:
 12 So the LORD alone did lead him, and there was no strange god with him.
 13 He made him ride on the high places of the earth, that he might eat the increase of the fields; and he made him to suck honey out of the rock, and oil out of the flinty rock;

IN this passage are the three members of the Godhead, the SOP brings out the Hebrew in the English.

The angel of mercy was then folding her wings to step down from the golden throne to give place to justice and swift-coming judgment. But Christ's great heart of love still pleaded for Jerusalem, that had scorned His mercies, despised His warnings, and was about to imbrue her hands in His blood." {DA 577.3}

Hosea 4:19 The wind "ruwach" hath bound her up in her wings, and they shall be ashamed because of their sacrifices.(KJV)

Here is a rare example of the Holy Spirit who bound up the adulterous people of Israel (us) in her wings.

"The world is soon to be left by the angel of mercy and the seven last plagues are to be poured out. . . . The bolts of God's wrath are soon to fall, and when He shall begin to punish the transgressors there will be no period of respite until the end".--TM 182 (1894). {LDE 238.2}

{DA 352.2} The Holy Spirit, the representative of the Captain of the Lord's host, comes down to direct the battle.

"A terrible conflict is before us. We are nearing the battle of the great day of God Almighty (Shadday). That which has been held in control is to be let loose. The angel of mercy is folding her wings, preparing to step down from the throne and leave the world to the control of Satan. .--RH May 13, 1902. {LDE 250.1}

Grace, like an angel of mercy, makes his voice heard sweet and clear, repeating the story of the cross, the matchless love of Jesus. {ML 334.5}

Our ministers are hovering over the churches, as though the angel of mercy was not making efforts to save souls. {PaM 99.3}

Here is a clue to the 'angel of mercy', the Hebrew word 'hovering'. Where is this word used?

Notice SOP does not use the English word "moved" as in the KJV.

Ge 1:2..And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. (DBY)

..And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. (NKJV)

..And the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters, (YLT)

Shalom

Peace 

 Rob wrote: "Well Reasoning I am surprised you answered, and after a long windy reply, you only point out my short fallings and mistakes as a human writer, not my passion for trying to show you a deeper truth."

  

  I don't know why your surprised, and you can call it "windy" if you want, just stating the facts Rob... The fact is your mistakes were based on trying to use scripture to support your theory. I understand your passion to point out places were she and her is used, but it's not enough to say it's wrong to refer to the Holy Spirit as "He"like you teach. 

  Rob wrote: "In one evidence you write about you gleam over it, and disregard that "wisdom" is written as a "her".... no comment. nothing. It's just the flow of the Father through Wisdom, who functions as a "her"."

 Again, no matter what you reference/verse you use in regards to "she" and "her", I believe the Father is flowing through and in those references. It's never a time that the Father is not flowing through and in the Holy Spirit or any of the references using she and her. You believe there are "rare" times this is the case. My comment might not be sufficient enough for you, but I have no control of that mate, but I did comment! 

  

 Rob wrote: "Yes I agree Wisdom still allows the Father's word to flow through Wisdom, hence my child like attempt to explain cases "operating on it's own", but you shoot me down in flames, so easy to do to be a mocker, rather than edifying looking for truth. That's the difference between Ian and yourself."

 I haven't mock you Rob... With all due respect, perhaps the problem isn't your child like explanations, but trying to explain things to me like I'm a child. 

 I'm just telling you it's ok to refer to the Holy Spirit as "He", it's ok that "He" is used in SDA fundamental #5...  the Bible and the SOP in the writings of EGW refers to the Holy Spirit as "He". Your telling me that is wrong. EGW referring to the Holy Spirit as "He" bothers you, with all due respect, my concern is not whether your bothered or not by what the SOP says.. 

 Again, your talking about the Holy Spirit "operating on its own", I haven't read that anywhere, never heard the term used. I believe the Holy Spirit is never operating without the Father. Your "child like attempt to explain cases" of the Holy Spirit operating without the Father is not there in my view. To be honest, I'm amazed you believe there are times the Holy Spirit operates without The Father. 

 

 When it comes to Wisdom, I don't know what you mean by it allows The Father, but I believe Wisdom comes from the Father, He gives it,  that's what the Bible says,  

 Proverbs 2: 6 For the Lord giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.

  Ecclesiastes 2:26 For God giveth to a man that is good in his sight wisdom, and knowledge, and joy: but to the sinner he giveth travail, to gather and to heap up, that he may give to him that is good before God. This also is vanity and vexation of spirit.

  That being the case, I agree The Father speaks to us and relates to us from a motherly or feminine perspective. 

Prov. 4:5 Get wisdom, get understanding: forget it not; neither decline from the words of my mouth.

6 Forsake her not, and she shall preserve thee: love her, and she shall keep thee.

7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

8 Exalt her, and she shall promote thee: she shall bring thee to honour, when thou dost embrace her.

9 She shall give to thine head an ornament of grace: a crown of glory shall she deliver to thee.

10 Hear, O my son, and receive my sayings; and the years of thy life shall be many.

11 I have taught thee in the way of wisdom; I have led thee in right paths.

Why is this important to our discussion? Because I believe the Holy Spirit is never operating on His own (without The Father), even in references using "she" or "her". I believe The Father is with the Holy Spirit in every case.

 That being the case, then you and I agree it's fine to refer to the Holy Spirit as "He", 

 Rob wrote: " Yes, it would be fine to use the term "He" for the Holy Spirit, as it represents the Father and the Son, in the function of a Agency or Medium."

 

 Rob wrote: "You say the SOP uses "He" in her writings? Or are they simply the SOP quoting the KJV without correcting the errors in translation? SOP never once speaks of translation issues in Scripture."

  I say the SOP through the writings of EGW uses "He", I don't believe the SOP was in error. You saying its wrong to refer to the Holy Spirit as "He" is the error in my view.

 Blessings! 

Greetings Reasoning,

I would love to discuss daily comments with you, people are rare on AO these days, and what you wrote was good.

I agree with you the Father is the primary source of wisdom that flows via the HS. You seem to suggest this makes the Father flow at times as a "he" or as a "her" and this does not seem to matter to you?

You state the SOP speaks of the HS as a "He", is this true? Do you have any SOP comments of this,

without them being just quotes from the Scriptures?

without references to the Father or Son references to community powers of heaven, which is a "He" ?

(do you understand why I use the term "operating on her own" is more about the grammatical use of Hebrew context, not about the flow of heavenly powers)

For example :

"The Holy Spirit is promised to all who will ask for it. When you search the Scriptures, the Holy Spirit is by your side, personating Jesus Christ.

And

And Jesus will see us also in the secret places of prayer, if we will seek him for light, that we may know what is truth. Angels from the world of light will be with those who in humility of heart seek for divine guidance." {CE 59.1}

The Holy Spirit exalts and glorifies the Saviour. It is his office to present Christ, the purity of his righteousness, and the great salvation that we have through him. Jesus says, "He shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you." [John 16:14.] The Spirit of truth is the only effectual teacher of divine truth. How must God esteem the human race, since he gave his Son to die for them, and appoints his Spirit to be man's teacher and continual guide." {CE 59.2}

And community words

Grace, like an angel of mercy, makes his voice heard sweet and clear, repeating the story of the cross, the matchless love of Jesus. {ML 334.5}

Our ministers are hovering over the churches, as though the angel of mercy was not making efforts to save souls. {PaM 99.3}

Comments on these two elements from you would be very helpful to me.

Thanks for your kind inputs to my concerns.

Sincerely

Rob

Peace 

  Rob wrote: "I agree with you the Father is the primary source of wisdom that flows via the HS. You seem to suggest this makes the Father flow at times as a "he" or as a "her" and this does not seem to matter to you?"

     You seemly didn't understand me,  No.... Rob, The Father is always referred to as HE, I said,  That being the case, I agree The Father also speaks to us and relates to us from a motherly or feminine perspective In the Bible. 

 So what's my point? My point is, that The Father is always flowing through and in the Holy Spirit.. Even the places where her and she is used.

 I disagree with you that there are times The Father isn't flowing through and in the Holy Spirit, in your words "operating on its own". 

  

 Rob wrote: "You state the SOP speaks of the HS as a "He", is this true? Do you have any SOP comments of this, without them being just quotes from the Scriptures? without references to the Father or Son references to community powers of heaven, which is a "He" ?

 Yes, there are quotes from the writings of EGW, but it's impossible to find anything if the Scriptures aren't the source, so I can't accommodate your request. The SOP in the writings of EGW uses "He". 

 Again, any reference to the Holy Spirit includes The Father of Heaven, and yes, which is referenced as "He". 

 

Rob wrote: "(do you understand why I use the term "operating on her own" is more about the grammatical use of Hebrew context, not about the flow of heavenly powers)"

  

  Brother Rob, I keep saying it, I believe The Father is flowing through and in the Holy Spirit at all times, in every verse the Holy Spirit is spoken of.. So no, I don't understand a view that believes there are times The Father doesn't flow through and in the Holy Spirit. 


 

Rob wrote: "Comments on these two elements from you would be very helpful to me."

  If you'll notice from the beginning of this post and all our discussions on this subject, I've been saying the same thing, in whatever element you want to provide, The Father is flowing through and in the Holy Spirit at all times. In my view there is nothing I read in regards to the Holy Spirit operating on His on. With that being said, we agree,

 
Rob wrote: " Yes, it would be fine to use the term "He" for the Holy Spirit, as it represents the Father and the Son, in the function of a Agency or Medium."

 It's fine for me, SDA fundamental #5 to refer to the Holy Spirit as "He"...  You saying its a problem doesn't make it so Rob. 

  We are coming to an end Rob, why, because SOP say this,

     EGW: "It is not essential for us to be able to define just what the Holy Spirit is. Christ tells us that the Spirit is the Comforter, “the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father.” It is plainly declared regarding the Holy Spirit that, in His work of guiding men into all truth, “He shall not speak of Himself.” John 15:26; 16:13. – {AA 51.3}
The nature of the Holy Spirit is a mystery. Men cannot explain it, because the Lord has not revealed it to them. Men having fanciful views may bring together passages of Scripture and put a human construction on them, but the acceptance of these views will not strengthen the church. Regarding such mysteries, which are too deep for human understanding, silence is golden. – AA p.52

 Bless! 

Greetings Reasoning,

I note in your reply you are not interested in reading Scripture, that has strange uses of pronouns in it. You brush these things aside and ignore them.

Ge 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

This verse alone, about all others tells us something is wrong with the SDA adoption of a new change to their creed. And you post "silence is golden" from the SOP. Yes you are right, so why does our Church have the audacity to make a public statement that the HS is always also a "he", a term they do not define anyhow?

In fact I doubt you could define the Father to me, and using the term "He" is not something you can define the Father with, because GOD is beyond matter, gender and space. The Genesis text says Elohiym made mankind in their image. So whatever we define, their must be contrasts to this image, yet the Church defines the Godhead all as a He, no contrast. This is not following Scripture, I believe.

You write: "I disagree with you that there are times The Father isn't flowing through and in the Holy Spirit, in your words "operating on its own".

If that is the case, according to the rules of Hebrew, the pronoun He takes precedence over the Her in community cases, hence no where would the term Her be used, but your wrong Reasoning, because Her is used on some rare occasions. So the HS is referenced on it's own, otherwise the grammar rules of Hebrew, would not take place.

For example who made the meals for Jesus and the two angels on the road in Genesis 18? Abham did. The wife cannot be mentioned, but she and servants all helpd Abram make the meal.

In this example

Isa 63:9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.
 10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.

We have Jesus as YHWH and the HOLY SPIRIT both named. But the love word used here is "ahabuah love", not "Ahab love" Why is this?

Why is the KJV written as "his ahabuah love" and "his HS" ?

It's a classic example of what Reasoning is saying, that Jesus is flowing always through the HS functioning as a medium. Correct.

But this does not mean we cannot fathom what personality the HS is, despite this. Scripture and the SOP provide clues, but you ignore this.

SO if "silence is golden" why has our Church creed made it now impossible for us to follow Scripture anymore?

I give you examples, but you do not discuss them, or look at them.

Genesis 1:27 is enough on its own to tell us our current creed is wrong.

Our church does not even acknowledge Ahab and ahabuah love, both of these love qualities affect gender humans differently, you ignore this too.

Have you even considered why the terms "mother, her, and ahabuah love" is even written in Scripture?

Shalom

Peace 

 Rob wrote: "This verse alone, about all others tells us something is wrong with the SDA adoption of a new change to their creed. And you post "silence is golden" from the SOP. Yes you are right, so why does our Church have the audacity to make a public statement that the HS is always also a "he", a term they do not define anyhow?"

 

 Bro., we went over this already... There is no new change in the SDA creed... That's in your mind. It's it fine to refer to the Holy Spirit as "He". Why? Because The Father in every example you can give, even the examples where "she" and "her" is used, The Father is flowing through and in those examples. 

 

 
Rob wrote: " Yes, it would be fine to use the term "He" for the Holy Spirit, as it represents the Father and the Son, in the function of a Agency or Medium."

 You even agree it's fine to refer to the Holy Spirit as "He" in most cases. But you have a problem with SDA fundamental #5 refer to the Holy Spirit as "He"? 

 

 The crux of your discussion now is trying to prove in Scripture examples of The Father and Son not flowing through and in the Holy Spirit. That's why this discussion is ending Rob, because I believe The Father and Son is always flowing through and in the Holy Spirit, in every example, even where "she" and "her" is used. You seem to agree 

  

 Rob wrote: "It's a classic example of what Reasoning is saying, that Jesus is flowing always through the HS functioning as a medium. Correct."

   Thank you Rob, great... We agree, The Father and "Jesus is flowing always through the Holy Spirit.."..  Again, that being the case and its "always" like you say, 

Rob wrote: " Yes, it would be fine to use the term "He" for the Holy Spirit, as it represents the Father and the Son, in the function of a Agency or Medium."

 Your battling yourself on this Rob! 

 

Rob wrote: "But this does not mean we cannot fathom what personality the HS is, despite this. Scripture and the SOP provide clues, but you ignore this.
SO if "silence is golden" why has our Church creed made it now impossible for us to follow Scripture anymore?"

  Again brother Rob, and with all due respect, fundamental #5 hasn't made it impossible for us to follow Scripture, that's made up in your mind. 

  
EGW: "It is not essential for us to be able to define just what the Holy Spirit is. Christ tells us that the Spirit is the Comforter, “the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father.” It is plainly declared regarding the Holy Spirit that, in His work of guiding men into all truth, “He shall not speak of Himself.” John 15:26; 16:13. – {AA 51.3}
The nature of the Holy Spirit is a mystery. Men cannot explain it, because the Lord has not revealed it to them. Men having fanciful views may bring together passages of Scripture and put a human construction on them, but the acceptance of these views will not strengthen the church. Regarding such mysteries, which are too deep for human understanding, silence is golden. – AA p.52

 This is not a hot button issue like your making it out to be Rob... You can worry about and try to fathom the personality of Holy Spirit, but for me, I'm just praying for The Father's Holy Spirit to guide me into all truth in Jesus. That is His work, just like the SOP says Rob.

 Since this isn't going anywhere Rob, I will give you the last word. Thank you for your time.

bless! 

Reasoning, your not looking at the tasks I present. You keep saying what I agree with you. Just because the Father or Son flowing always through the HS, functioning as a medium, doesn't mean you cannot determine the personality of loving the HS has as a separate co-eternal Personality.

You don't consider this.

I always known the personality of the HS is feminine, but when I was baptised in 1980, such a conflict wasn't a problem for individual SDA members, however today now it is. You have to acknowledge the Father the Son and the HS are all personalities of a "He" whatever that means.

Our Church does not even speak of the HS functioning as a medium.

Nor does our Church understand the HS as another name for the Shadday.

And you say I am just battling my own discussions? The problem is you not reading the Scriptures where the HS is clearly functioning as a "her".

Shalom

Peace 

 Rob wrote: "Reasoning, your not looking at the tasks I present. You keep saying what I agree with you. Just because the Father or Son flowing always through the HS, functioning as a medium, doesn't mean you cannot determine the personality of loving the HS has as a separate co-eternal Personality."

  

 If you believe ".. The Father or [and] Son flowing always through the Holy Spirit, fuctioning as a medium,..", then we agree, 

 Rob wrote: " Yes, it would be fine to use the term "He" for the Holy Spirit, as it represents the Father and the Son, in the function of a Agency or Medium."

 Thank you Rob, blessings! 

Greetings Reasoning

You write: "Rob wrote: " Yes, it would be fine to use the term "He" for the Holy Spirit, as it represents the Father and the Son, in the function of a Agency or Medium."

You have missed my point entirely, our SDA church Creed does not say this, nor do the SDA people read the HS in this way. You have it completely wrong.

"God the eternal Spirit was active with the Father and the Son in Creation, incarnation, and redemption. He is as much a person as are the Father and the Son. He inspired the writers of Scripture. He filled Christ’s life with power. He draws and convicts human beings; and those who respond He renews and transforms into the image of God. Sent by the Father and the Son to be always with His children, He extends spiritual gifts to the church, empowers it to bear witness to Christ, and in harmony with the Scriptures leads it into all truth. (Gen. 1:1, 2; 2 Sam. 23:2; Ps. 51:11; Isa. 61:1; Luke 1:35; 4:18; John 14:16-18, 26; 15:26; 16:7-13; Acts 1:8; 5:3; 10:38; Rom. 5:5; 1 Cor. 12:7-11; 2 Cor. 3:18; 2 Peter 1:21.)

Pardon my reading, doesn't this say the HS is a He, and creates along with the Father and Son as a He, whatever that means? A term our creed does not define?

None of these texts listed prove he HS is a "He". Luke 1:35 in fact tells us the HS is functioning as a "her". Otherwise you have two divine "He" coming over Mary to do a born process, and most humans understand parents do a born process, and in this case two divine parents do in fact do a born process.

In fact SOP calls our heavenly Father a "parent". That along settles the matter. Declaring one Godhead as a "parent" immediately defines the other parent in the Godhead, differently.

Here is a quote from the SDA people comments upon their understanding of the HS "

"However, as a friend, the Holy Spirit still cannot really be predicted. You never quite know how the Spirit will manifest Himself. He has appeared in the form of a dove, in the wind, in silence and as a sense of deep peace."

Notice they quote the HS as a "He", "He appears like a dove"... this is NOT Scripture at all....

De 32:11 As an eagle stirreth up her nest, fluttereth over her young, spreadeth abroad her wings, taketh them, beareth them on her wings:

This is Scripture, the dove thing from Gen 1:2, "fluttering" and NT, comes from this verse here, the "fluttering of young from her wings" is correctly translated by the KJV.

Shalom

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