Eph 3:14 ¶ For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
This is the only verse in Scripture that defines Elohiym or Theos or GOD as a simple English word.
This word is the word "family".
What do other SDA people think of this verse?
I'm not challenged yet with your understanding of the pictures of God. I read it all respect it and my dad is doing well- he's retiring on April 1st, 2019. My mom is already retired and still caring for a friend. They are both healthy which I'm thankful for. It's getting really late here. So I'm signing off soon for now. What am I struggling with spiritually my family doesn't know. Let's figure it out and deal with all our struggles with sins so we can walk in the light as Jesus is in the light now and forever. Praise Him Praise Him Praise Him Prrrraise Him!
Thanks for your Reply Rob, I am sorry that I did not answer in the way you were expecting. I went more for the implications of what the immaculate conception cost the Godhead. I was thinking that would give us a picture of what it cost all members of the Godhead.
So I will try again
The Godhead blended our nature with theirs; He took the manhood into God; He bound us up with Himself as one indivisible being; He shared not only our state but our nature and essence; He took from us a human nature that He might give us a Divine one. God bound himself with man in a way He has not bound himself to any other created beings, not even the angels that he created Higher than Man.
As Apostle Peter writes: 1Peter 1:12 To them it was revealed that not to themselves, but to us, they ministered the things which are now reported to you by those who have preached the gospel to you in the Holy Spirit sent from Heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. (MKJV)
And remember, further, that this mystery of God and man is a mystery for everlasting. As there ever has been, and ever will be, the eternal Son of God, so will there ever remain the eternal Son of Man. This blessed union is incapable of dissolution; our immortality is suspended on its continuance; we could not have life eternal unless God were to be man eternal. The first-fruits will remain with the rest of the harvest in glory.
Put another way The Godhead gave something of itself to join mankind to itself, so the two are eternally bound together in a way no other created being is.
Shalom and have a blessed new year
It was understandable from both gentlemen. I think God better wait and get here when He's ready because He will come to comfort those who mourn in Zion and to give them beauty for ashes. The oil of joy.
And the verse goes on and on.
I have much respect for both of you gentlemen, Andrew and Elijah, indeed thank you for taking the time to reply, but neither of you have responded to the Bible text we showed you....Is there something wrong with this text? Am I presenting a wrong discussion from it? Is the text saying a picture about the Godhead even? I require you both to respond to the Bible texts we show you, otherwise building a picture line upon line, here a little, there a little, cannot happen, and so a picture of GOD is not built from Scripture at all.
Here is the Text again:
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her,
The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, (Holy Spirit)
and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: (Father)
therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee (born word used)
shall be called the Son of God. (Jesus added with humanity to His divinity)
Does this verse not place all the members of the Godhead into "family functional roles"?
Do you both at least acknowledge there are three members of the Godhead here in this verse?
I am not interested in anything else the text may or may not highlight, because the incarnation of Jesus with humanity is a mystery. Please stick to the topic at hand.
All three members of the Godhead are mentioned by name also in Ephesians 3:15, 16.
And by logical response, all three members of the Godhead is the "us", in Genesis, let us make mankind in our image? Cannot refer to angels as some scholars claim, or as Jeff Benner claims, the us may be the "earth"? Sure glad we have SOP help with our Bibles.
But remember my earlier posts, GOD is not of matter,, time or space.... I am looking into are there any Bible texts that describe the members of GOD, with different personalities of loving? My feeling why GOD created animals into different forms within each kind, is because there is two personalities of loving, the provider love, the responder love. Ellen White calls this the Father's love and Brotherly love.
I term the Hebrew words for love as maleness-love and femaleness-love to acknowledge where these forms of love came from, within mankind during their creation.
Now I am testing Scripture, is there any evidence of the GODHEAD with different personalities of loving?
So both of you need to respond to this Bible text we present.
Thanks for your reply Rob I must have misunderstood your meaning As the text says:
Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said to her, The Holy Spirit shall come on you, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow you. Therefore also that Holy One which will be born of you shall be called Son of God.
Yes, this is the family of God acting in the conception of God the Son into humanity. And Yes the 3 members of the Godhead are taking part in this action. Just as you mention Genesis where God says let us make man in our Image although the Holy Spirit and God The father was not directly involved in the Creation of the man.
I am pleased not to have come across those infidels you mention that want to change the scripture to have angels involved. Because Jesus is the creator as we find out in texts further down in the bible. In Genesis we see the Holy Spirit taking part in creation in some way Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form and empty. And darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved on the face of the waters.
I have read another commentator referring to the Holy Spirit as a female in this action. I seem to remember in Psalms and Proverbs God is referred to as female also in some instances.
One other place comes to mind the Baptism of Jesus where we see all 3 members of the Godhead in action: Mat 3:13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to Jordan, to John, to be baptized by him. 14 But John restrained Him, saying, I have need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me? 15 And answering Jesus said to him, Allow it now, for it is becoming to us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he allowed Him. 16 And Jesus, when He had been baptized, went up immediately out of the water. And lo, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting upon Him. 17 And lo, a voice from Heaven, saying, This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
As you mention the SOP is a great help to understand better about these things.
Shalom and have a blessed New Year
Wow brother Elijah, you are the first SDA person that has acknowledged this text, and the other two texts concerning this picture of GOD.
I have shown the same texts to a few Pastors but receive no reply.
I would caution your reply though, and you must follow carefully what is being presented.
"I have read another commentator referring to the Holy Spirit as a female in this action. I seem to remember in Psalms and Proverbs God is referred to as female also in some instances."
There are no Biblical texts that show the Father is gender male or the Holy Spirit as gender female. The members of GOD, ie the Father and the Holy Spirit, are not of matter, time or space. However, Jesus is of matter, shaped as humanity, and thus is a simile of the human race, the last Adam, as Scripture says, so it seems there was an intentional reason for the Godhead to be related to matter, and thus have a shape like humanity. Ellen White says the Father's face is similar to Jesus face, in that they choose to be shaped in human form. But all this is speculation on our part, because Scripture is silent on any of this. However what Scripture is not silent on, is the personalities of loving within the family picture of GOD. You have responded correctly to this idea. However we must be careful in how this picture is developed.
Now I would like you to consider why is love is divided into two personalities of loving? Why do parents on earth function in harmony?
Surely Satan wants to destroy family concepts of love that flows from parents, but why does true love function in this way?
You will notice Eve was "built" while Adam was "created", and after that both were "formed" into two different shapes of loving.
This suggests to me, IMO, that femaleness-love is inside the maleness-love, but comes out as it's own unique personality of loving.
We will stop here and ask you to ponder these two personalities of loving, and think about these things.
Shalom and may God bless you.
Thanks for your reply Rob
Come to think of it, this is what Apostle Paul said: 1 Corinthians 13:12-13 In the same way, we can see and understand only a little about God now, as if we were peering at his reflection in a poor mirror; but someday we are going to see him in his completeness, face-to-face. Now all that I know is hazy and blurred, but then I will see everything clearly, just as clearly as God sees into my heart right now. 13 There are three things that remain—faith, hope, and love—and the greatest of these is love.
True the Bible is not silent but as Paul says we are not able to see clearly. Concerning the Female aspects of the Godhead, I only have those from commentaries and therefore I will not build anything on it as it can not be proven from the bible.
Shalom and have a blessed New Year
Thank you my brother from your response
"True the Bible is not silent but as Paul says we are not able to see clearly. Concerning the Female aspects of the Godhead, I only have those from commentaries and therefore I will not build anything on it as it can not be proven from the bible. "
Sure I agree we see things darkly, but you rely upon commentaries of men, instead of Scripture, these comments regarding the "Female aspects of the Godhead" is a misleading English word, my friend.
Notice the text you use
1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
The Greek word translated here into "charity" in the KJV, is "agape", this word in Hebrew would have been "Ahab".
SO the greatest of these three things from GOD, is maleness-love.
What is so special about this personality of loving?
This was the personality of loving GOD created for the gender male, Adam.
The gender female, Eve was built out from the man, later as a help-mate.
SO what kind of personality of loving, does the gender male, Man, represent, that is darkly something like our heavenly Father, who is not gender male, not of matter, time or space?
Consider these selected few Bible texts of the word "ab", the new name for our Heavenly Father.
Song 6:11 ¶ I went down into the garden of nuts to see the fruits "Ab" of the valley,
Ge 49:25 Even by the God of thy father "Ab", who shall help thee; and by the Almighty,
Many scholars see "Ab" as a multiple meaning word, some contexts suggest "fruit" and some contexts suggest "Father". However if we choose a different English word that is broad and fits all the sentences, we can remove the multiple meanings scholars think this Hebrew word has.
Song 6:11 ¶ I went down into the garden of nuts to see the fruits "Ab" "Providers" of the valley,
Ge 49:25 Even by the God of thy father "Ab" "Provider" , who shall help thee; and by the Almighty,...
So IMO, one can suggest the Hebrew word "Ab" broadly means "Provider" for all sentences of context.
Isn't this what a father does? He provides for his family home?
Does the fruit trees also Provide for us, a simile of a Provider?
So logically than the femaleness-love or the fellowship love, or brotherly love the SOP terms, must be the personalities of loving that "respond".
So we can term love into two broad personalities of loving, the Provider kind and the Responder kind. And as Paul says, we see darkly, the greatest of these personalities of loving is the Provider Love.
Now on its own such a "line", is weak, but each jigsaw piece is added line upon line, until though we see darkly, we begin to see a complete picture of what love is within the personalities of loving. We will stop here so you can respond...
God bless your interest in this grand picture of love from GOD.
There was a lot said. But I think there are 3 members of the Godhead. All three are in harmony with each other. The Father initiates love and has that agape love for all of us. We respond with agape love towards each other. Even to love our enemies. I think I saw in your comments the Godhead. What a wonderful God we serve.
Yes Andrew, thanks for your reply. You are right that there are three members in the family of GOD. Jesus is the Son of GOD but also the Son of Man.
Jonathon Sarfetti , a member of Creation Ministries International, does many wonderful U tube videos on various topics, and I remember him saying Jesus does "collective love" while the others do "parental love". This is an interesting notion, he doesn't elaborate further.
However, this our theory of faith developed independently from Scripture over the years, and now, I find others I respectfully agreeing with it. I am not sure what collective love means, but IMO Jesus showed the ability to both a Provider of Love and a Responder of Love. Another aspect of Responder Love is that it Receives, and Provider Love, Gives.
Thus you cannot have a Church full of only those giving love, neither can you have a Church full of those only receiving love, you have to have a Church both providing and responding, until we become a single source of love, not many people doing their own style of love as they please.
The reason why we call Provider Love Maleness-love, and Responder Love Femaleness-love, is because IMO this is why the Family of GOD created mankind as gender male and gender female, with two unique personalities of loving. I am sure we all agree in heaven, the biological function of procreation is switched off as a gene, but the personalities of loving remain in each kind of person for eternity.
I will allow time for Elijah to respond as well. Think about these things. Provider Love is a love that provides, and serves. Responder Love is a love that responds and thus nurtures. When the Gender Male establishes his house filled with provisions, it does not become a home of loving until his wife responds and networks with this love, and the two personalities of loving become a single unit.
There is a strange, Hebrew concept about these personalities of loving's, when two persons are married. They become cardinally ONE being. They are ONE family. There is a single source of LOVE.
Le 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.
This verse is profound in what it is saying. Many think when we marry the two become united, harmonious and the two styles of loving blend. But the Hebrew does not suggest this. When we marry there is a single flow of love from the family. Jews dislike modern Christian views of GOD because they see "three gods" having "three independent sources of love". The Hebrew, IMO does NOT teach this. There is instead a single source of love, the members of the Godhead are cardinally one Being as love is concerned. If this view of love is correct, we could predict there would be no or rarely few texts where the Holy Spirit loves with providing love, and texts where the love from the Holy Spirit is only responding, and many texts where the love is responding in relational terms. In other words the loving response of the Holy Spirit is relational always with another Divine Being, community love is what we should see, in Scripture.
Let me give you an example of this kind of loving in Scripture:
Isa 63:8 For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Saviour.
9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love "abahuh" and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.
10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.
There are at least two members of the Godhead mentioned here, Jesus-YHWH, our Saviour, and the Holy Spirit is named with both functional descriptors "holy + spirit", which is rare in the OT. What is interesting is the term "his femaleness-love" or "his responding love". Notice the community setting of the term "his love". Is not our Saviour a great Provider of salvation for Israel?
But who did they vex? The Holy Spirit, who responds to that Providing Love, but sadly the follows of Jesus, do not respond well to His Providing Love.
Instead the Hebrew writes this as "His Responding Love". Why does the Hebrew write this way? Because there is NOT two members of loving here doing the love, there is a single source of love, here saving Israel, even though two members of the Godhead, are at least mentioned.
Now many of you will find this strange, so we will stop so you can consider what this picture of love is saying. Please comment on what this verse Isaiah 63: 8-10, is suggesting to you. Please comment on what Lev 18:8 is also suggesting to you.
Line upon line, we join the jigsaw pieces of the picture of God together. Shalom
Shalom for the new year, and greetings for 2020.
Please comment on what this verse Isaiah 63: 8-10, is suggesting to you. Please comment on what Lev 18:8 is also suggesting to you.Line upon line, we join the jigsaw pieces of the picture of God together.