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What is your opinion on the Church disfellowshipping a member because of pregnancy outside of marriage?

From a personal standpoint, all of us have sinned and come short of the glory of God and to disfellowship a member because of pregnancy is throwing them back into the world instead of loving them and encouraging them in their spiritual life and recommitting themselves back to the Lord. Don't take me wrong, I am not encouraging the sin!!!

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"God will charge those who unwisely expose the mistakes of their brethren with sin of far greater magnitude than He will charge the one who makes a misstep. Criticism and condemnation of the brethren are counted as criticism and condemnation of Christ."   --Letter 48, 1894. {3SM 345.2}
Excellent Gabe.
In reading the Desire of Ages I was really impressed with Jesus' response to Judas as his disciple.  In this case Jesus being God knew that Judas was habitually stealing money.  He knew; not a guess, not judging from outward circumstances as we do.  He read Judas' heart, he knew Judas was only seeking power, and that he was a thief.  I'm sure there was physical evidence to prove that Judas was stealing also.  Rather than publicly... or even privately, rebuke Judas; Jesus said nothing for two reasons. 

 

(1) The disciples had such respect for Judas that rebuking him would cause some doubt.

 

(2) Most importantly, Jesus was giving Judas every possible opportunity to repent.  Jesus knew that any sort of rebuke would seal Judas' decision, and completely turn him away from the message.

 

Now to bring this in... I believe that there are consequences to sin.  I do not believe that a woman (or man) who has been involved in a pre-marital pregnancy should be allowed to be in / remain in a leadership position in the church.  But without other evidence we as humans do know the circumstances.  A person can sin, realize there sin, and repent.  We cannot read the heart.  If there is just a pregnancy and the person is not remaining in open sin, I do not see how we can dis-fellowship them without any more proof.  I understand that in the example of Judas... that was a private sin, but at the same time Jesus knew without a doubt.  We can't read hearts, we can't see behind closed doors. Barring that the individual'(s) involved do not continue to live in public sin I do not see how we could dis-fellowship them.  I feel that doing so at such a time would not be showing the love that Jesus did, and would only have the same effect as it would have to Judas.

 

One last example; David committed adultery, not only that he murdered the Bathsheba’s husband Uriah.  Both he and his wife were punished.  But the Lord did not reject him from being king over Israel, as He did with Saul. 

 

Jon

 

 

 

 

that might be your personal thoughts but they DO have a choice.

 

Work with them in love.

 

"The love of Jesus covers a multitude of sins.    EGW

"And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins."    Jesus 

Wow !
Hold up there Mister,you are not God, you are the one being judgemental here, people like you fall and when they fall they fall very hard. As you can see, when I posted the question it was more than 2 years ago. Antonio replied but I have never since been on Adventist Online. I read his reply when I posted that msg and also mentioned that I have since then borne a little girl out of wedlock which I love dearly. With that attitude you still have many more lessons to learn, you Pharisee!

Yes Mercedez ... I think your observation to be correct.

How sad.

But you are appreciated by many here. I appreciate your honesty and heart for God.

May you be blessed sister.

Don't let anyone question your love and commitment to God.

Hold you head high.

I take back me calling you a Pharisee. Unlike you, it is not in my place to judge, I leave that for His Majesty to do!

Mercedez

 

One thing that we all must remember is that the way we treat others is the way we are telling God that we want to be treated.  This is an undebatable law of the universe.

    "For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you,  [15] but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." Matthew 6:14-15 (ESV) 

      "And they will do these things because they have not known the Father, nor me."  John 16:3 (ESV) 

On the other hand, please excuse me if I did not happen to read your post where you might have done so, but have you ever come to the conclusion that what you did;

hurt yourself,

hurt your church and

hurt the man who fathered your child? 

 

If you indeed had become sorry for what you did, not becasue of the inconvenience et. al,, then you should not have been disfellowshipped, if indeed you were.  Lacking that realization of the wrong of what you did, then being disfellowshipped was the appropriate course of action.  And rebaptism would be the step to take to acknowledge your sin and ask God to cleanse you from all unrighteousness.  


    "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."  1 John 1:9 (ESV) 

This issue has two sides to it.  We must not focus on just one side, we must consider the whole issue.


Maranatha :)
Ray
 

 

 


 

Could you post scripture that says one should be re-baptized? Or is that just your personal thought?

N Him

 

That is a fair request.  No, there are no texts that I know of that speak of being rebaptized or rebaptism.  Nor do I believe that a person will be saved or lost on that point alone.  Rather, I see it in the same way that the first baptism was entered into. 

 

Maybe the church was wrong.  Maybe the person was wrong. Maybe they both were wrong.  Who know?  However, I see rebaptism as the healing of the schism that has come between the person and the church, and in a major way between the person and God. 

 

IN NO WAY and I saying or implying that the church is God.  For it is described as needing alot of help.  However, none of us are God either and it is for sure we all need alot of help.  In fact, I may be chief in that department.  For with much privilege comes greater responsibility and a greater need for help. 

 

One can dance through life with a cup of water that is only 1/4, or 1/2 full.  However, when one has a full glass, then they need all of the help they can get to not spill it.

 

Here are my feelings on this subject, from the pen of Ellen White.  It is a little long, but I couldn't deceide what to cut out of it, so, I am posting the entire statement.

 

Rebaptism

     When the Former Baptism Does Not Satisfy.-- There are many at the present day who have unwittingly violated one of the precepts of God's law. When the understanding is enlightened, and the claims of the fourth commandment are urged upon the conscience, they see themselves sinners in the sight of God. "Sin is the transgression of the law" and "he that shall offend on one point is guilty of all."  {Ev 372.1}  
     The honest seeker after truth will not plead ignorance of the law as an excuse for transgression. Light was within his reach. God's Word is plain, and Christ has bidden him search the Scriptures. He reveres God's law as holy, just, and good, and he repents of his transgression. By faith he pleads the atoning blood of Christ, and grasps the promise of pardon. His former baptism does not satisfy him now. He has seen himself a sinner, condemned by the law of God. He has experienced anew a death to sin, and he desires again to be buried with Christ by baptism, that he may rise to walk in newness of life. Such a course is in harmony with the example of Paul in baptizing the Jewish converts. That incident was recorded by the Holy Spirit as an instructive lesson for the church.--Sketches From the Life of Paul, p. 133. (1883)  {Ev 372.2}  
     Not to Be Made a Testing Question for New Believers.--The subject of rebaptism should be handled with the greatest care. After the truth is presented upon the Sabbath question and other important points of our faith, and souls manifest the moral courage to take their position upon the truth, they will see this question in the Bible light if they are fully converted. But by some these questions have been handled unwisely, and God has sent reproof many times on this point. Those who place the subject of rebaptism in the front, making it of as much importance as the Sabbath question, are not leaving the right impression upon the minds and correctly representing the subject. It requires great discrimination to bring in kindred truths with the Sabbath, rightly dividing the Word, giving to each his portion of meat in due season.  {Ev 372.3} 
     Those who lift the cross of the Sabbath have a tremendous battle to fight with self and with selfish interests which would interpose between their souls and God. Then when they have taken this great step and their feet have been planted upon the platform of eternal truth, they must have time to become accustomed to their new position, and not be hurried on the question of rebaptism. No one should become a conscience for another or urge and press rebaptism.  {Ev 373.1}  
     This is a subject which each individual must conscientiously take his position upon in the fear of God. This subject should be carefully presented in the spirit of tenderness and love. Then the duty of urging belongs to no one but God; give God a chance to work with His Holy Spirit upon the minds, so that the individual will be perfectly convinced and satisfied in regard to this advanced step. A spirit of controversy and contention should never be allowed to come in and prevail on this subject. Do not take the Lord's work out of His hands into your own hands. Those who have conscientiously taken their position upon the commandments of God, will, if rightly dealt with, accept all essential truth. But it needs wisdom to deal with human minds. Some will be longer in seeing and understanding some kindred truths than others, especially will this be the case in regard to the subject of rebaptism, but there is a divine hand that is leading them--a divine spirit impressing their hearts, and they will know what they ought to do and do it.  {Ev 373.2}  
     Let none of our zealous brethren overdo this matter. They will be in danger of getting before the Lord and making tests for others which the Lord has not bidden them to make. It is not the work of any of our teachers to urge rebaptism upon anyone. It is their business to lay down the great principles of Bible truths, especially is this the case in regard to rebaptism. Then let God do the work of convicting the mind and heart. . . .  {Ev 374.1}  
     Every honest soul who accepts the Sabbath of the fourth commandment will see and understand his duty in time. But it will take time for some. It is not a subject to be driven and forced upon those newly come to the truth, but this subject will work like leaven; the process will be slow and quiet, but it will do its work, if our ministering brethren will not be too fast and defeat the purpose of God.  {Ev 374.2}  
     Those who have long looked upon this subject see it quite clearly and think all others should see it just as they do. They do not consider that with some newly come to the faith this matter looks like denying all their former religious experience. But in time they will come to regard the matter differently. As the truth is constantly unfolding to their minds, they will see advanced steps to be taken; new light will flash upon their pathway; God's Spirit will work upon their minds, if men will not interfere and seek to drive them to the positions which they think are truth.  {Ev 374.3}  
     Now let it be distinctly understood, from time to time all through our experience, God has given me testimonies of caution to our brethren in regard to handling the subject of rebaptism. Our good Brother _____ and several others of our ministers I was shown were making a mistake at some point in their experience in putting in the front and making a test question of rebaptism. This is not the way that the subject should be treated. It is a matter to be treated as a great privilege and blessing, and all who are rebaptized, if they have the right ideas upon this subject, will thus consider it. These good brethren were not bringing those newly come to the faith along step by step, cautiously and guardedly, and the result was that some were turned from the truth, when a little time and tender, careful dealing with them would have prevented all such sad results.--Letter 56, 1886.  {Ev 375.1}  
     Reconversion and Rebaptism of Seventh-day  Adventists.--The Lord calls for a decided reformation. And when a soul is truly reconverted, let him be rebaptized. Let him renew his covenant with God, and God will renew His covenant with him. . . . Reconversion must take place among the members, that as God's witnesses they may testify to the authoritative power of the truth that sanctifies the soul.-- Letter 63, 1903.  {Ev 375.2}

 

Maranatha :)
Ray
 

"And when a soul is truly reconverted, let him be rebaptized. Let him renew his covenant with God, and God will renew His covenant with him."

 

I think I need to be re-baptized each day then. For I renew my covenant with God each day.  And each day I am reconverted.

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