It was asked on another board by a lawyer for the GC,
and I ask it here,
When WO passes will you leave the church because of that?
We are in the shaking time. Everything that can be shaken will be shaken. It is a good thing. It is forcing each of us to study, or not, and choose up our sides.
So where are we being shaken? Out of the church? Or onto the Rock?
Replies are closed for this discussion.
I'm with you Alexander on this one!
I wonder (if I ever return to church) - which one can I go to now?
Well, I definitely have to keep praying about this naturally!!
God bless, Irene
GOD is working in our church like never before!
no dont leave!!!
I take reassurance from Sis. White's comment that the church may seem as if about to fall but it will not. However, she also intimates that whole divisions may be lost and I echo Alexander's thought that if any division does leave the sisterhood of churches over this issue the NAD would be a prime candidate and the TED would be a close second. Both these divisions have shown a rebellious and divisive attitude when it comes to WO.
However, I also draw strength from the fact that this church is God's last days church and no matter what man thinks to do it is God who is in charge. As long as a free and honest vote is taken I don't believe that the SDA church will ever condone WO. I have had to face a similar choice a few times and find that it must be approached very carefully. In my church two of the elders are women, both ordained. They both know my views on WO and one of them has said that she agrees with me. (I wanted to make some comments about their work as elders but as there are other members of my church on AO I think it would be inappropriate as the elders in question could be easily identified.)
I have also been in a position where I have been training women pastors/elders and my beliefs in the matter of WO are irrelevant to the training so I keep my views to myself. It saddens me greatly that my Division treats those who object to WO with open disdain and that they are actively working to undermine the decisions of two GC Sessions. I have witnessed a Union President laughing with scorn at those who disagree with WO - during a prayer of dedication. I have heard church officials explain how ordained, I mean "commissioned", women pastors are not able to lay hands of ordination on other ministers and then see "commissioned" women pastors lay hands of ordination on male pastors. It's an ugly business, particularly when those pro-WO have to rely on lies and deceit to promote their agenda.
However, I remember when "celebration" worship was being forced on the church - another panacea to cure the ills of the church - and watched with sadness as it fell apart, ministers becoming Sunday-keepers, churches leaving (or being ejected) from the sisterhood of churches and youth realising that they were still not being fed with a rightly-divided word of truth.
I guess this is a long-winded way of saying that we have no idea what the future will bring but I am determined that as long as I can with all good conscience I will hold fast to this church. I suppose if I am being honest there is more of a chance that I will stick with a local "congregationalist" church but it may well be a very tough decision... Perhaps, with deep regret, I would resign all posts and worship with an independent church that holds SDA beliefs and await eventual disfellowshipment.
An unaswerable question that would require a lot of prayer and openness to God's revealed will *if* the situation ever arises. After all, those pro-WO thought it was "in the bag" a couple of times but were proved wrong when it came to the church sitting in Session. The majority of the church rejects WO so I think I am "safe" at the moment.
I heard the US has already got women ordained as Pastors all over the country! two people have mentioned this from the site to me via chat.
Also here in my country - I know its in my city and must be in others - we already have women Pastors. So, looks like its approved here. I am not able to attend church very often but I know this from a regular church attender and good friend of mine.
I do not approve of this myself. I wonder why the SDA church approved this. Its only quite recent I believe - tho, it may have been a couple of years now - will find out more soon - I would be interested to talk to a Pastor (male) here soon about this.
Some have told me in conversation they believe women can preach but not as ordained Pastors. I am actually confused about all of this. I don't think it should be approved WO - but I would really like to hear why the SDA church has changed and I would like to hear reasons why they approve it now.
Love to be able to discuss this in person with someone - I should call a Pastor soon for a meeting!
God Bless You and have a good friday and Sabbath!
We do have ordained pastors as well (a few) ....many to most o0f the SDA Christian churches have ordained female elders and some even have youth/young adult EIT (Elders In Training).
Thanks for this comment Sarah!
i see we have some who believe it has been approved by the Church and we do have ordained women pastors and some don't! as told alexander - will keep researching about it. thanks Sarah. If you find anywhere I can look this up - sites where this is written. please let me know. thanks
I post several...not just limited to the United States....
by STEVE DAILY
La Sierra University and its University Church ordained two women to the gospel ministry on December 2, 1995. Madelynn Jones Haldeman and Halcyon Westphal Wilson, two long-time members of the La Sierra community, were ordained together in a 4:00 p.m. service that filled the University Church.
The service featured several high points in a liturgy designed by LSU Professor of Religion and Society, Charles Teel, Jr. Five different music groups, the LSU Church choir, LSU Chamber Singers, La Sierra Academy choir, Loma Linda University Church choir and LSU Brass Quintet, combined to fill the platform and choir loft. The celebratory music gave a powerful sense of grandeur to the processional with its hand-crafted liturgical banners, imported from the Sligo ordination service, that provided a colorful backdrop for the proceedings.
University President Lawrence Geraty drew extended applause when he acknowledged and affirmed Haldeman for her decades of service and ministry in the "back of the Adventist bus." He also drew applause and laughter when he made the tongue-in-cheek comment that, "We have tried to ordain our men when they are young, before they make mistakes."
Senior Pastor Dan Smith, who presented the homily, received a strong ovation when he stated, "Our staff has made this decision [to ordain] not because of pressures or demands, but because God has put it in [our hearts] to share equality together as staff members."
Pastor Wilson, herself, also drew enthusiastic applause when she spoke to the young women in attendance and looked into the future, saying, "You now belong to a church that will ordain you if you are called by God."
The ordination of the candidates also included a candle lighting ceremony where members of the LSU pastoral staff each held a candle and jointly lit Wilson's candle, and members of the LSU School of Religion did the same for Haldeman’s. The tone of the service was spiritual and joyous.
The ordinations of Wilson and Haldeman closed a process that officially began on July 7, the day after the General Conference voted against women's ordination at its world session in Utrecht. La Sierra took pains to ensure that its decision to ordain was voted at each level of local church government. Immediately following the General Conference vote, the La Sierra Church Board met July 7, 1995, recommending that the Pacific Union Conference and Southeastern California Conference authorize women's ordination by November 1, 1995. This action was supported in a church business meeting on July 15, 1995, by a vote of 108 yes and 5 no.
However, when neither the union nor conference saw fit to move ahead with this recommendation by the November date, the church called a historic business session on November 11, 1995, to determine its course of action. This meeting was attended by more than 500 people, including 348 voting members. After a worship service and brief statements from Smith and head elder Steve Blue, the meeting began under the leadership of church board chair Dr. Cliff Reeves. Microphones were provided on the floor and 31 different church members addressed the issue; 26 of the speeches from the floor were in favor of women's ordination and 5 were opposed. When the discussion ceased a secret ballot vote was taken and the decision to proceed with the December 2 service passed by a count of 275 yes to 73 no.
A La Sierra church official pointed out that the local congregation was willing to vote its convictions on an issue like this by nearly an 80 percent margin, in spite of the world church's differing position. He said, "This provides hope that the priesthood of all believers is not dead in Adventism." Many other local churches are currently considering the ordination question at this time and it appears that action will be taken on a congregation-by-congregation basis.
First Printed in Adventist Today January / February 1996 Vol. 4 No. 1.
Now how can anyone read this and not agree that the ordination of women is born out of rebellion?
I remember how, after the vote came back at Utrecht, the NAD President stood up and stated that the NAD would abide by the decision of the world church. The very next day the rebellion began.
It is also interesting to note that what was practiced (and continues to be practiced) was congregationalism. By this action La Sierra de facto placed itself outside the sisterhood of churches.
This WO movement is driven by the spirit of independence and rebelliousness as evidenced by this post.
This WO movement is driven by the spirit of independence and rebelliousness as evidenced by this post.
So...just a few things I wanted to clarify: Per the article:
It was NOT the Women that requested it, but the CHURCH BODY and other CO-PASTORS.
If it is born out of anything, it is the LAITY and PASTORS MALE who believe that God is in this--which is what I have stated all along.
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU JOHNB!
I AM VERY DISAPPOINTED THIS HAS BEEN HAPPENING IN THE SDA CHURCH.
I AM NOT SURE WHICH ONE TO ATTEND HERE IN ADELAIDE. I AM VERY DISAPPOINTED. I FIND IT HARD TO GO TO CHURCH ALREADY DUE TO MY OWN PROBLEMS. BUT THIS MAKES IT HARDER. I WILL HOWEVER ALWAYS HOLD STRONG SDA BELIEFS. THANKS JOHNB
WISH I HAD THE ADVENTIST TODAY TO SEE FOR MYSELF
ANYWAY REGARDLESS OF WHETHER IT IS OR ISN'T APPROVED - ORDINATION OF WOMEN PASTORS. - I WON'T EVER AGREE TO IT. I DONT BELIEVE ITS IN ACCORDANCE TO GOD'S WILL - I AM THE SAME WITH ALEXANDER AND RAY ON THIS ONE. THANKS THO FOR YOUR COMMENTS. AS ALREADY SAID HERE. I HAVE YET TO TALK IN PERSON TO A MALE PASTOR HERE. SEE WHAT HE/THEY SAY ABOUT THIS. WHY TWO DIFFERENT STORIES. WHO TO BELEIVE. THO I WON'T AGREE UNLESS PROVEN ITS OK. SO FAR. NO PROOF ITS OK