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Revelation 7:1-4 states: "After these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel."

Then the Scripture lists 12,000 from each of the following 12 tribes: Judah, Reuben, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Manasseh, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, and Benjamin.

Now the main question is whether or not the 144,000 are actually 12,000 literal Israelites from each of these respective tribes.  Twelve tribes came from the 12 sons of Jacob, but because Joseph was sold into slavery by his older brothers, he was separated from his family for many years. After Joseph finally reunited with his father, Jacob promised to compensate by adopting Joseph's two sons as his own, to be numbered with his sons in place of Joseph.

"Now thy two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, which were born unto thee in the land of Egypt before I came unto thee into Egypt, are mine; as Reuben and Simeon, they shall be mine." Genesis 48:5. Hence, Joseph would be numbered twice through his sons. So its not the literal 12 tribes, but the clue to it being a spiritual meaning to the 144,000 was the way in which the tribes are listed in Revelation 7:5-8. This is the only time in Scripture that the names of the tribes appear in this order. Reuben, the firstborn of Jacob, is listed as second while Judah, fourth in birth order, is listed as first. Joseph and Levi are included, while Ephraim and Dan are left out. Why?

Because "Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder [viper] in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward" (Genesis 49:17), and "Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone" (Hosea 4:17).

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Herbert wrote: "Not logically consistent. The actual number of saints is a multiplication of the 12 tribes by 1200 reaching 144. In is symbolic number of expansive saints. This projection isn't meant to be literal but an understading the God will redeem many."

 Thank you, You are correct, however because the 144,000 living saints represent a expansive number of living saints doesn't mean the 144,000 aren't literal saints.


Look John heart the number and when he turns around he saw a great multitude. Can it be that the great multitude is the 144.000?

strive to be part of the 144000, in other words read about their characteristics and allow God to transform you in that character who will be found perfect before God. Trying to identify who they are or will be could be fruitless at this time   

You are right Jason.


This is a dangerous false message

All who shall be a part of the first resurrection will be changed in the twinkling of an eye.  But there are distinctions between the two groups.

The great multitude, the bible tells us.

"These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The great tribulation is an event that will take just before the coming of Jesus.  This is descripted or mention in Matthew 24:21

For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.

A multitude will come out of this period. God admonished his people to come out of her, but many will not heed this word and will receive the punishment of it, they will go through the great tribulation.

Revelation 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven say: "'Come out of her, my people,' so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;

The 144,000 will not go into the tribulation, they will not suffer this wrath of God as those in the great tribulation. The 144,000 stands with Jesus and are show with him on Mount Zion.

1Then I looked and saw the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him 144,000 who had His name and His Father’s name written on their foreheads.

Mount Zion is the same area of Jesus return at his second coming.

Zechariah 14:4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south.

Acts 1: 11“Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.” 12Then they returned to Jerusalem from the Mount of Olives, which is near the city, a Sabbath day’s journey away.

Jesus establishes will establish his throne from Zion as the bible describes Isaiah in 2:3, it will be the center of the kingdom of GOD on earth.

For out of Zion the law shall go forth, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. Then many people will come and say, "Let's go to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways so that we may live by them." The teachings will go out from Zion.

The 144,000 will follow Christ wherever he go, that’s on the physical earth that the kingdom will rule over or the spiritual kingdom of God.

Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast nor his image, nor had received his mark on their foreheads, nor in their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 
Rev 20:5  But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 
Rev 20:6  Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. The second death has no authority over these, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him a thousand years. 

Ellen White saw and heard the nomber.

”soon we heard the voice of God like many waters, which gave us the day and hour of Jesus coming.

The living saints, 144.000, knew and understood the voice, while the wicked thought was thunder and earthquake.”

Can it be that the wicked here is included the great multitude of Revelation 7:9? Our are they seal already. 

Because she said; “while the wicked thought was thunder and earthquake.”

she did not talk sbout now great multitude in her vision. She saw only 144.000 in nomber, no great multitude.

In her vision she was one of our she was one with the 144.000?

No, stop right there, need to look clearly at what occurred and said:

"The Lord has given me a view of other worlds. Wings were given me, and an angel attended me from the city to a place that was bright and glorious. The grass of the place was living green, and the birds there warbled a sweet song. The inhabitants of the place were of all sizes; they were noble, majestic, and lovely. They bore the express image of Jesus, and their countenances beamed with holy joy, expressive of the freedom and happiness of the place. . . . I begged of my attending angel to let me remain in that place. I could not bear the thought of coming back to this dark world again. Then the angel said, 'You must go back, and if you are faithful, you, with* the 144,000, shall have the privilege of visiting all the worlds and viewing the handiwork of God.'"--Early Writings, pp. 39, 40.

*Note: Observe that the promise was given to Mrs. White that if she was faithful, she with the 144,000 would have certain privileges.

Now is the promise only for Ellen White our it is for everyone that is fsithul?

Because by now Ellen White is death.

Not only for her but the 144000, and the   great multitude 

Nearest the throne are those who were once zealous in the cause of Satan, but who, plucked as brands from the burning, have followed their Saviour with deep, intense devotion. Next are those who perfected Christian characters in the midst of falsehood and infidelity, those who honored the law of God when the Christian world declared it void, and the millions, of all ages, who were martyred for their faith. And beyond is the “great multitude which no man could number, of all nations and kindreds and people and tongues,” “before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands.” Their warfare is ended, their victory won. They have run the race and reached the prize. The palm branch in their hands is a symbol of their triumph, the white robe an emblem of the spotless righteousness of Christ which now is theirs. {4SP 479.3}

None but the hundred and forty-four thousand can learn that song; for it is the song of their experience—an experience such as no other company have ever had. “These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth.” These, having been translated from the earth, from among the living, are counted as “the first fruits unto God and to the Lamb.” Revelation 15:2, 3; 14:1-5. “These are they which came out of great tribulation;” they have passed through the time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation; they have endured the anguish of the time of Jacob’s trouble; they have stood without an intercessor through the final outpouring of God’s judgments. But they have been delivered, for they have “washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.” “In their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault” before God. “Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple: and He that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.” {Hvn 51.1}
They have seen the earth wasted with famine and pestilence, the sun having power to scorch men with great heat, and they themselves have endured suffering, hunger, and thirst. But “they shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.” Revelation 7:14-17.—The Great Controversy, 648, 649. {Hvn 51.2}


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