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Revelation 7:1-4 states: "After these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel."

Then the Scripture lists 12,000 from each of the following 12 tribes: Judah, Reuben, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Manasseh, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, and Benjamin.

Now the main question is whether or not the 144,000 are actually 12,000 literal Israelites from each of these respective tribes.  Twelve tribes came from the 12 sons of Jacob, but because Joseph was sold into slavery by his older brothers, he was separated from his family for many years. After Joseph finally reunited with his father, Jacob promised to compensate by adopting Joseph's two sons as his own, to be numbered with his sons in place of Joseph.

"Now thy two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, which were born unto thee in the land of Egypt before I came unto thee into Egypt, are mine; as Reuben and Simeon, they shall be mine." Genesis 48:5. Hence, Joseph would be numbered twice through his sons. So its not the literal 12 tribes, but the clue to it being a spiritual meaning to the 144,000 was the way in which the tribes are listed in Revelation 7:5-8. This is the only time in Scripture that the names of the tribes appear in this order. Reuben, the firstborn of Jacob, is listed as second while Judah, fourth in birth order, is listed as first. Joseph and Levi are included, while Ephraim and Dan are left out. Why?

Because "Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder [viper] in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward" (Genesis 49:17), and "Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone" (Hosea 4:17).

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Peace 

Benicio wrote: "You do not agreeing with some it is with all and that make you a Davidian. Anthony you cannot mingle/mix error with truth, or you are or not. You cannot eat from both side of the cake! Error mix with truth is still error."

  I haven't studied everything to agree with "all" of it... What we been discussing are some of the things I agree with them on brother Benicio.

 The things I question from the Davidians is why they believe David the King is someone other than Jesus?

 I question if they believe VTH is the Elijah to come to prepare the way for Jesus, because I would believe he would have to be living. I know some Davidians believe VTH will rise from the dead to be Elijah and David the King. That is something I don't agree with.

 I take one issue and subject at a time and study what is taught compared to what the Bible first a foremost teaches, and what the SOP teaches. That is not mixing error with Truth, that is separating Truth from error. 

 

 Also, to help you help Jason understand that 144,000 won't be the only ones alive when Jesus comes, that there will be a great multitude of saints gathered from the fallen churches and the world that will be alive to get translated and caught up in the air.... Read Early writings page 270-273. 

Also GC88 shows that those who accept the call will be united with those in GOD'S Church and go though the last plagues.

  EGW : "The enemy moves upon his servants to propose measures that would greatly impede the work of God; but statesmen who fear the Lord are influenced by holy angels to oppose such propositions with unanswerable arguments. Thus a few men will hold in check a powerful current of evil. The opposition of the enemies of truth will be restrained that the third angel’s message may do its work. When the final warning shall be given, it will arrest the attention of these leading men through whom the Lord is now working, and some of them will accept it, and will stand with the people of God through the time of trouble. – {GC88 610.2}
The angel who unites in the proclamation of the third angel’s message is to lighten the whole earth with his glory. A work of world-wide extent and unwonted power is here foretold. " GC88 p.610

 Jason believes only 144,000 will be alive and go though the time of trouble, which is the time of the last plagues. That means he believes the great multitude that GOD used the 144,000 to call out of the fallen churches and the world during harvest time will either die in the harvest time or die during the plagues, which means they don't go though the time of trouble, that they die in the time of trouble. 

 However EGW/SOP teaches people will accept the message and go "though the time of trouble ".

 Jason teaching that only 144,000 are alive when Jesus comes is a dangerous teaching. Satan can use that and say look world, the SDA teaching is that only 144,000 will be saved from the plagues, that means if y'all (the great multitude) accept this message then be prepared to die in the last plagues.

But the fact is the place of safety from the last plagues is GOD'S Church... that's why they are called out, so they received not the plagues. 

EGW : "But God still has a people in Babylon; and before the visitation of his judgments, these faithful ones must be called out, that they “partake not of her sins, and receive not of her plagues.” Hence the movement symbolized by the angel coming down from Heaven, lightening the earth with his glory, and crying mightily with a strong voice, announcing the sins of Babylon. In connection with his message the call is heard, “Come out of her, my people.” These announcements, uniting with the third angel’s message, constitute the final warning to be given to the inhabitants of the earth. – GC88 604

 I know we don't agree on some things Benicio, but atleast you and Jason can speak and teach the same.

 So will Jason adhere to SDA teaching, will he believe what pastor Doug B. wrote and teach there will be a great multitude that goes through the time of trouble and are translated when Jesus comes? 

Blessings. 

Anthony say: "The things I question from the Davidians is why they believe David the King is someone other than Jesus?

 I question if they believe VTH is the Elijah to come to prepare the way for Jesus, because I would believe he would have to be living. I know some Davidians believe VTH will rise from the dead to be Elijah and David the King. That is something I don't agree with."

You question is, the same with the Davidians of New York Mountendale. Maybe you are a member of the Branch of New York Mountendale. 

Peace 

Benicio wrote: "You question is, the same with the Davidians of New York Mountendale. Maybe you are a member of the Branch of New York Mountendale. "

 Hey, whatever Davidian group you want me to be apart of is fine with me my brother. Thank you! :) 

 blessings! 

The sealing implies protection and salvation. It is a work of the gospel through which all who effectively share in it will secure everlasting life. The threatened condition that is restrained in order that the sealing work may be accomplished is such that when it takes effect, no further work of the gospel can be accomplished; hence, with the sealing of the 144,000, probation ends; the winds of destruction blow from every quarter, and the great whirlwind of God’s indignation, His last testimony in this mortal state against sin, will sweep the world into its final aspect of ruin and desolation. 

The number, 144,000, must mean a definite number, composed of just so many individuals. It cannot stand for a larger but indefinite number, for in verse 9 another company is introduced which is indefinite in its proportions, and hence is spoken of as “a great multitude, which no man could number.” If the 144,000 were designed to represent such an indefinite number, then John would have said, in verse 4, “And there were sealed a great multitude, which no man could number, out of all the tribes of the children of Israel.” But instead of this, he says, 144,000, twelve thousand from each tribe a number, which can be easily enumerated. The reason for this distinction is apparent if we take the innumerable multitude of verse 9 to be the whole host of the redeemed, who will have part in the first resurrection, and the 144,000 to be Christians who will be alive on the earth when Christ appears. And that the 144,000 are the ones who will be thus alive, and meet Christ at His second coming, appears from the prophecy where they are next mentioned; that is, Revelation 14:1-5. Here they are represented as coming triumphant out of the last religious conflict in this world (Revelation 13:12-18), and as being “redeemed from the earth,” and “redeemed from among men.”

Peace 

where did you copy and paste this from brother Jason?

 I told you some time ago, there are certain things that are not acceptable, if you aren't using your own words , please site where you get it from so we know and can go read it in context. Now, if this is your writings, then my bad! :)

Blessings! 

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