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Revelation 7:1-4 states: "After these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel."

Then the Scripture lists 12,000 from each of the following 12 tribes: Judah, Reuben, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Manasseh, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, and Benjamin.

Now the main question is whether or not the 144,000 are actually 12,000 literal Israelites from each of these respective tribes.  Twelve tribes came from the 12 sons of Jacob, but because Joseph was sold into slavery by his older brothers, he was separated from his family for many years. After Joseph finally reunited with his father, Jacob promised to compensate by adopting Joseph's two sons as his own, to be numbered with his sons in place of Joseph.

"Now thy two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, which were born unto thee in the land of Egypt before I came unto thee into Egypt, are mine; as Reuben and Simeon, they shall be mine." Genesis 48:5. Hence, Joseph would be numbered twice through his sons. So its not the literal 12 tribes, but the clue to it being a spiritual meaning to the 144,000 was the way in which the tribes are listed in Revelation 7:5-8. This is the only time in Scripture that the names of the tribes appear in this order. Reuben, the firstborn of Jacob, is listed as second while Judah, fourth in birth order, is listed as first. Joseph and Levi are included, while Ephraim and Dan are left out. Why?

Because "Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder [viper] in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward" (Genesis 49:17), and "Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone" (Hosea 4:17).

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Peace 

Benicio wrote: "You do not agreeing with some it is with all and that make you a Davidian. Anthony you cannot mingle/mix error with truth, or you are or not. You cannot eat from both side of the cake! Error mix with truth is still error."

  I haven't studied everything to agree with "all" of it... What we been discussing are some of the things I agree with them on brother Benicio.

 The things I question from the Davidians is why they believe David the King is someone other than Jesus?

 I question if they believe VTH is the Elijah to come to prepare the way for Jesus, because I would believe he would have to be living. I know some Davidians believe VTH will rise from the dead to be Elijah and David the King. That is something I don't agree with.

 I take one issue and subject at a time and study what is taught compared to what the Bible first a foremost teaches, and what the SOP teaches. That is not mixing error with Truth, that is separating Truth from error. 

 

 Also, to help you help Jason understand that 144,000 won't be the only ones alive when Jesus comes, that there will be a great multitude of saints gathered from the fallen churches and the world that will be alive to get translated and caught up in the air.... Read Early writings page 270-273. 

Also GC88 shows that those who accept the call will be united with those in GOD'S Church and go though the last plagues.

  EGW : "The enemy moves upon his servants to propose measures that would greatly impede the work of God; but statesmen who fear the Lord are influenced by holy angels to oppose such propositions with unanswerable arguments. Thus a few men will hold in check a powerful current of evil. The opposition of the enemies of truth will be restrained that the third angel’s message may do its work. When the final warning shall be given, it will arrest the attention of these leading men through whom the Lord is now working, and some of them will accept it, and will stand with the people of God through the time of trouble. – {GC88 610.2}
The angel who unites in the proclamation of the third angel’s message is to lighten the whole earth with his glory. A work of world-wide extent and unwonted power is here foretold. " GC88 p.610

 Jason believes only 144,000 will be alive and go though the time of trouble, which is the time of the last plagues. That means he believes the great multitude that GOD used the 144,000 to call out of the fallen churches and the world during harvest time will either die in the harvest time or die during the plagues, which means they don't go though the time of trouble, that they die in the time of trouble. 

 However EGW/SOP teaches people will accept the message and go "though the time of trouble ".

 Jason teaching that only 144,000 are alive when Jesus comes is a dangerous teaching. Satan can use that and say look world, the SDA teaching is that only 144,000 will be saved from the plagues, that means if y'all (the great multitude) accept this message then be prepared to die in the last plagues.

But the fact is the place of safety from the last plagues is GOD'S Church... that's why they are called out, so they received not the plagues. 

EGW : "But God still has a people in Babylon; and before the visitation of his judgments, these faithful ones must be called out, that they “partake not of her sins, and receive not of her plagues.” Hence the movement symbolized by the angel coming down from Heaven, lightening the earth with his glory, and crying mightily with a strong voice, announcing the sins of Babylon. In connection with his message the call is heard, “Come out of her, my people.” These announcements, uniting with the third angel’s message, constitute the final warning to be given to the inhabitants of the earth. – GC88 604

 I know we don't agree on some things Benicio, but atleast you and Jason can speak and teach the same.

 So will Jason adhere to SDA teaching, will he believe what pastor Doug B. wrote and teach there will be a great multitude that goes through the time of trouble and are translated when Jesus comes? 

Blessings. 

Anthony say: "The things I question from the Davidians is why they believe David the King is someone other than Jesus?

 I question if they believe VTH is the Elijah to come to prepare the way for Jesus, because I would believe he would have to be living. I know some Davidians believe VTH will rise from the dead to be Elijah and David the King. That is something I don't agree with."

You question is, the same with the Davidians of New York Mountendale. Maybe you are a member of the Branch of New York Mountendale. 

Peace 

Benicio wrote: "You question is, the same with the Davidians of New York Mountendale. Maybe you are a member of the Branch of New York Mountendale. "

 Hey, whatever Davidian group you want me to be apart of is fine with me my brother. Thank you! :) 

 blessings! 

The sealing implies protection and salvation. It is a work of the gospel through which all who effectively share in it will secure everlasting life. The threatened condition that is restrained in order that the sealing work may be accomplished is such that when it takes effect, no further work of the gospel can be accomplished; hence, with the sealing of the 144,000, probation ends; the winds of destruction blow from every quarter, and the great whirlwind of God’s indignation, His last testimony in this mortal state against sin, will sweep the world into its final aspect of ruin and desolation. 

The number, 144,000, must mean a definite number, composed of just so many individuals. It cannot stand for a larger but indefinite number, for in verse 9 another company is introduced which is indefinite in its proportions, and hence is spoken of as “a great multitude, which no man could number.” If the 144,000 were designed to represent such an indefinite number, then John would have said, in verse 4, “And there were sealed a great multitude, which no man could number, out of all the tribes of the children of Israel.” But instead of this, he says, 144,000, twelve thousand from each tribe a number, which can be easily enumerated. The reason for this distinction is apparent if we take the innumerable multitude of verse 9 to be the whole host of the redeemed, who will have part in the first resurrection, and the 144,000 to be Christians who will be alive on the earth when Christ appears. And that the 144,000 are the ones who will be thus alive, and meet Christ at His second coming, appears from the prophecy where they are next mentioned; that is, Revelation 14:1-5. Here they are represented as coming triumphant out of the last religious conflict in this world (Revelation 13:12-18), and as being “redeemed from the earth,” and “redeemed from among men.”

Peace 

where did you copy and paste this from brother Jason?

 I told you some time ago, there are certain things that are not acceptable, if you aren't using your own words , please site where you get it from so we know and can go read it in context. Now, if this is your writings, then my bad! :)

Blessings! 

the 144 Thousand have their hearts sealed in His Love for them. So swept away.. So absorbed.. So signed over to HIM ..nothing can move them or entice them to stray from Him.

<3

The Outpouring of The Holy Spirit is simply selfless unconditional Love for others spilling All over everyone they meet.

This Love..this peculiar never seen before Love ( except when Jesus walked the Earth and magnified on The Cross) Will win Numbers as the sands of the seas! :D

It is starting...

finally!  Praise GOD!!!

P.S. Love is patient and kind and never rude ..and it keeps no records of wrongs

Follow the Fruit !!!

Reasoning since you refuse to understand the Loud cry I will post some quotes without commentary. I know you won't see the truth but will pick and choose from these what to accept or reject

I saw that the holy Sabbath is, and will be, the separating wall between the true Israel of God and unbelievers; and that the Sabbath is the great question to unite the hearts of God’s dear, waiting saints. {EW 33.1} 

I saw that God had children who do not see and keep the Sabbath. They have not rejected the light upon it. And at the commencement of the time of trouble, we were filled with the Holy Ghost {EW 33.2}

And at the commencement of the time of trouble, we were filled with the Holy Ghost as we went forth and proclaimed the Sabbath more fully. This enraged the churches and nominal Adventists, as they could not refute the Sabbath truth. And at this time God’s chosen all saw clearly that we had the truth, and they came out and endured the persecution with us. I saw the sword, famine, pestilence, and great confusion in the land. {EW 33.2}

The wicked thought that we had brought the judgments upon them, and they rose up and took counsel to rid the earth of us, thinking that then the evil would be stayed.  {EW 33.2}

I saw that the holy Sabbath is, and will be, the separating wall between the true Israel of God and unbelievers; and that the Sabbath is the great question to unite the hearts of God’s dear, waiting saints. I saw that God had children who do not see and keep the Sabbath. They have not rejected the light upon it. And at the commencement of the time of trouble, we were filled with the Holy Ghost as we went forth and proclaimed the Sabbath more fully. {EW 85.2}

“The commencement of that time of trouble,” here mentioned does not refer to the time when the plagues shall begin to be poured out, but to a short period just before they are poured out, while Christ is in the sanctuary. At that time, while the work of salvation is closing, trouble will be coming on the earth, and the nations will be angry, yet held in check so as not to prevent the work of the third angel. At that time the “latter rain,” or refreshing from the presence of the Lord, will come, to give power to the loud voice of the third angel, and prepare the saints to stand in the period when the seven last plagues shall be poured out. {EW 85.3}

No one has a true message fixing the time when Christ is to come or not to come. Be assured that God gives no one authority to say that Christ delays His coming five years, ten years, or twenty years. “Be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh” (Matthew 24:44). This is our message, the very message that the three angels flying in the midst of heaven are proclaiming. The work to be done now is that of sounding this last message of mercy to a fallen world. (1896) {2SM 113.3}

But divisions will come in the church. Two parties will be developed. The wheat and tares grow up together for the harvest.  {2SM 113.3}

The work will grow deeper and become more earnest to the very close of time. {2SM 114.1}

I saw our people in great distress, weeping, and praying, pleading the sure promises of God, while the wicked were all around us, mocking us, and threatening to destroy us. They ridiculed our feebleness, they mocked at the smallness of our numbers, and taunted us with words calculated to cut deep. They charged us with taking an independent position from all the rest of the world. They had cut off our resources so that we could not buy nor sell, and referred to our abject poverty and stricken condition. They could not see how we could live without the world; we were dependent upon the world, and we must concede to the customs, practices, and laws of the world, or go out of it. If we were the only people in the world whom the Lord favored the appearances were awfully against us. They declared that they had the truth, that miracles were among them, that angels from heaven talked with them, and walked with them, that great power, and signs and wonders were performed among them, and this was the Temporal Millennium, which they had been expecting so long. The whole world was converted and in harmony with the Sunday law, and this little feeble people stood out in defiance of the laws of the land, and the laws of God, and claimed to be the only ones right on the earth. {Mar 209.3}

Peace 

Jason wrote: "Reasoning since you refuse to understand the Loud cry I will post some quotes without commentary. I know you won't see the truth but will pick and choose from these what to accept or reject"

  Anybody can post quotes brother Jason, it's how you reason what you read that's important. Where in the time line do you fit these particular statements from EGW. You haven't shown how you believe Doug B. is wrong, and how I'm wrong in believing what he wrote in regards to this subject. Your mostly a copy and paste man, right,  no commentary or reasoning. 

 Do you believe "only " 144,000 living righteous saints will be alive when Jesus comes in the clouds when all eyes can see Him? 

I ask you because you wrote this,

Jason wrote: "On the other hand, if one reads the SOP tenaciously, they would conclude that the 144000 are a special group at the end of time, and more specifically they would be the only saints alive when Jesus returns. According to Ellen White, they had special privileges..."

 Blessings! 

They are the only remaining faithful living Seveth-day Adventist that are going to proclaim the Loud Cry message during the time of trouble and Mark of the Beast.

Good morning blessed preparation day.

Can you show me a Bible verse that says 144.000 will go and proclaim the Loud Cry?

Also if you can show me a quote from the writings of the SOP that say 144.000 will go and proclaim the Loud Cry.

Everthing that is ben said that is not in the Bible and the SOP is pure  speculation. And we cannot base are faith on pure speculation!

Peace 

Sorry sister Jhonalyn, perhaps I can show brother Benicio the answers to his questions. 

Brother Benicio, check this out from SOP

EGW: "The true people of God, who have the spirit of the work of the Lord and the salvation of souls at heart, will ever view sin in its real, sinful character. They will always be on the side of faithful and plain dealing with sins which easily beset the people of God. Especially in the closing work for the church, in the sealing time of the one hundred and forty-four thousand who are to stand without fault before the throne of God, will they feel most deeply the wrongs of God’s professed people. This is forcibly set forth by the prophet’s illustration of the last work under the figure of the men each having a slaughter weapon in his hand. One man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer’s inkhorn by his side. “And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.” – {3T 266.2}
Who are standing in the counsel of God at this time? Is it those who virtually excuse wrongs among the professed people of God and who murmur in their hearts, if not openly, against those who would reprove sin? Is it those who take their stand against them and sympathize with those who commit wrong? No, indeed! Unless they repent, and leave the work of Satan in oppressing those who have the burden of the work and in holding up the hands of sinners in Zion, they will never receive the mark of God’s sealing approval. They will fall in the general destruction of the wicked, represented by the work of the five men bearing slaughter weapons. Mark this point with care: Those who receive the pure mark of truth, wrought in them by the power of the Holy Ghost, represented by a mark by the man in linen, are those “that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done” in the church. Their love for purity and the honor and glory of God is such, and they have so clear a view of the exceeding sinfulness of sin, that they are represented as being in agony, even sighing and crying. Read the ninth chapter of Ezekiel.  3T p. 267

You have to use your reasoning here my brother.... First can we agree this is talking about problems in the SDA Church? 

 If you agree, can we also agree the 144,000 are those that "...  will they feel most deeply the wrongs of God’s professed people.", which is the SDA Church? 

You may ask, how does this answer my questions?

Benicio asked: "Can you show me a Bible verse that says 144.000 will go and proclaim the Loud Cry?
Also if you can show me a quote from the writings of the SOP that say 144.000 will go and proclaim the Loud Cry."

 I'm trying to show you that the 144,000 are on the scene before the Loud Cry takes place,  they are in the SDA Church, and they are those

 EGW: "..  that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done” in the church. Their love for purity and the honor and glory of God is such, and they have so clear a view of the exceeding sinfulness of sin, that they are represented as being in agony, even sighing and crying."

  

 Once we can establish the 144,000 are on the scene before the Loud Cry, then we can move forward to understanding how they are the main ones who are engaged in giving the Loud Cry by the power of the Latter rain. 

 I recommend pastor Doug B. book, 'Who will sing the song, Understanding the 144,000'?.. I will put the link, he breaks it down way better than me.

  https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/86/t/who-will-sin...

 Blessings! 

Peace 

Jhonalyn wrote:"They are the only remaining faithful living Seveth-day Adventist that are going to proclaim the Loud Cry message during the time of trouble and Mark of the Beast."

 I pray it's not only 144,000 remaining faithful living SDA to proclaim the Loud Cry, we do know atleast the 144,000, but I will hold off in saying "only"... Let's pray the sighing and crying does a great work so it's not only 144,000. 

Blessings

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