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Who are the "true" davidians, are they the shepherds rod or ???

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Again the SR is truth mix with error, and this is more dangerous then error open itself.

And that is why the water is not good for drink, it remind poison.

Reasoning my advice to you is, if you think that the SR is truth go and join them, our maybe you have join them a ready. Join them!

But for me I will stand my ground!

I'm not going with you in a discussion over the believes of the SR to prove to you and the world over and over again that the SR message is and still is a false message, and a deathly one.

My position remind the same. I know what this error is. Their is now drop of truth in it.

And I'm very thankful for this blog and br. Clark to give me the opportunity to expose and unmask the Shepherd's Rod on this blog.

I have receive hundreds of e-mail from around the world to help them with this thread/plaque in their church. I thank God also for this opportunity to help my brethren in other parts of this world.

I have got invitation to speak in meetings over this thread. All thanks to Adventist Online. My God bless this blog.

You can go in my history on AO you will get all my discussions on this thread. I have no energie to go with you in this discussion all over again. right know have a world to warned about the second coming of Jesus and the things that going to take place in the church and the world.   

My God bless my friend.

p.s.: unmask the wolf

Peace 

Benicio wrote: "full glass of water with one drop of poison, is the water still good for drink? "

Benicio wrote: "Again the SR is truth mix with error, and this is more dangerous then error open itself. And that is why the water is not good for drink, it remind poison."

I like that one, however if the Water is the Truth of GOD, then the poison can't harm me, and it would be more like putting a drop of oil in the water, and we know oil and water don't mix, they separated.

 One thing I usually notice against the SR folks from some SDA is this sacre tactic, it's similar to what non SDA do to SDA, but thank GOD for me I didn't listen to the sacre tactics when coming into the Truth SDA hold.  I let the truth of the Bible separate from what is false from what is Truth. That's the only thing I want to unmasked my brother. 

Benicio wrote: "Reasoning my advice to you is, if you think that the SR is truth go and join them, our maybe you have join them a ready. Join them!"

 Thanks for your advice. There are things I read from the SR book to be truth, also there are some things I read in other writings of VTH that I question, unfortunately the Davidians brothers here hasn't been able to explain these questions & issues.

 Take for example the point you brought up brother Benicio about the prophecies of David the King, Davidians are all over the board in explaining this, and VTH wrote some statements that would appear to contradict. So I still have many questions for them.

 

 Again, I haven't read all of the SR book, but the things I've read seem to be in tune with the Bible and the writings of EGW. I mean I believe some of what the JW teach, does that mean I'm looking to "Join them!"? 

 Benicio wrote: " But for me I will stand my ground! I'm not going with you in a discussion over the believes of the SR to prove to you and the world over and over again that the SR message is and still is a false message, and a deathly one. My position remind the same. I know what this error is. Their is now drop of truth in it."

 Well, there it is, your not going into a discussion in where we can find agreement with the Davidians... however, you saying there is not a drop of truth in it is a lie. Your willing to lie to prove your point?

 The ground you stand on is to fight, fight, fight... Me, I'm more of finding out where we can agree and talk about the things we disagree on in a Christ-lime manner. 

  

Benicio wrote: "And I'm very thankful for this blog and br. Clark to give me the opportunity to expose and unmask the Shepherd's Rod on this blog. I have receive hundreds of e-mail from around the world to help them with this thread/plaque in their church. I thank God also for this opportunity to help my brethren in other parts of this world. I have got invitation to speak in meetings over this thread. All thanks to Adventist Online. My God bless this blog."

 Yes, much respect to brother Clark, even though he's not actively involved, GOD has used him to provide this platform for people to discuss Biblical subjects.

 Brother Benicio, if it's your calling to fight and prove what the Davidians believe is wrong, then so be it. I know you think your the expert in explaining what they believe and saying what they're wrong in, but I have a reasoning mind that GOD has given me as well, and the only way to test our reasoning faculties is by the Word of GOD, the Bible, and of course as SDA we have the writings of EGW to help as well. 


Benicio wrote:  "You can go in my history on AO you will get all my discussions on this thread. I have no energie to go with you in this discussion all over again. right know have a world to warned about the second coming of Jesus and the things that going to take place in the church and the world.  My God bless my friend."

 Thank you my brother... GOD bless you as well. If it's your calling to battle the Davidians,  then I doubt you'll stay away from the discussion. 

Blessings! 

For me this topic of the SR is a done deal on Adventist Online. Like I say I know this threat very well I stand my ground. If you are still pursue of the truth and you think that the Rod message is truth go four it. You know my position and I know your.

If it’s God will we will meet on other blog 

my God  bless you.

Amen

Peace 

Benicio wrote: "For me this topic of the SR is a done deal on Adventist Online. Like I say I know this threat very well I stand my ground. If you are still pursue of the truth and you think that the Rod message is truth go four it. You know my position and I know your. If it’s God will we will meet on other blog. my God bless you."

 Yes, I understand, it's a "done deal" for you.  Thank you for your time. 

Bless! 

Reasoning said : 

"Yes, the true reasoning will be seen.... People will see a person without prejudice, a person that hears the other side before believing what other people tell me. That's how I became a SDA, despite the people saying the SDA Church is a cult.

 Yes, check the threads on the 144,000 brother Jason, the crazy thing is you believe the same as the SR (Davidians).

 How do I know, because you believe the same as pastor Doug B. in regards to the 144,000, and the Davidians teach the same thing. Do you even realize that or are you blinded by prejudice that you can't see where there is agreement?"

This is such a blatant lie 

here is what you and the rods believe 

 

 

Mr. Houteff says: "The sealing of the 144,000 can not extend to the close of probation, for they must be sealed long before that time, and it must close before the loud cry of the third angel's message."-The Shepherd's Rod, p. 35. Also: "If we were to mark out the exact time of the beginning of this sealing, we would say it began sometime during 1929."-The Shepherd's Rod, p.32.

Why 1929? Because he claims that light on the sealing work was given to him in that year (The Shepherd's Rod, p.157).

"The time has fully arrived for the 144,000 to come into line with God's program for the finishing of His work and the preparing of them for translation." -The Great Paradox of the Ages (1941), p.66

He declared that those who accepted his message, and lived it as he directed, would never die, but would be translated without tasting death. Note the following statement penned by him to his adherents in 1934: "keep your knees in motion and let not opportunities be neglected, for the final movements shall be rapid ones. ' Thus shall you 'walk with God' as Enoch of old, and as he was translated without tasting death so shall you be. "-The Symbolic Code, Volume 1, No. 4 (October 15, 1934), p.4.

About six months later he published in an official Shepherd's Rod organ this statement: "Moreover, as the Shepherd's Rod is the Elijah message (Testimonies to Ministers, p 475))t is impossible for anyone who accepts it and lives it to die, for the type demands translation. Thus it is that Elijah stands as a type of the 144,000."-The Symbolic Code, No. 9, (March 15, 1935), p.9. In the following year he declared: "There is nothing that can take the life of the 144,000."-The Symbolic Code, Volume 2, Nos. 7-8 (July-August, 1936), p.11.

And in the next year he thus defended his recent marriage against the criticism of some of his followers: "Those who believe in Present Truth, yet continue to find fault with Brother Houteff's marriage, prove to us one of two things: either that they are shallow thinkers, or that they have no faith in what they believe, for the message teaches that we, as a part of the 144,000, shall never die. "-The Symbolic Code, Volume 3, Nos. 5-6 (May-June, 1937), p.8.

Nevertheless, this notice concerning Mr. Houteff himself, the chief propagator of the Shepherd's Rod message concerning the 144,000, appeared in his own paper: "Victor Tasho Houteff was born in Raicovo, Bulgaria, March 2, 1885, and died February 5,1955, at the Hillcrest Hospital in Waco, Texas." The Symbolic Code, Volume 10, Nos. 34 (January-February, 1955), p.9.

A few weeks later a statement was issued under the title "V. T. Houteff's Death in Relation to the Message," which said: "Brother Houteff's death may be a shock and a surprise." - The Symbolic Code, Volume 10, No.5 (March,1955),p.11.

quoted from link

I will post what Doug believes and what I believe some other time 

 

Peace

Jason wrote: "here is what you and the rods believe"

Lets go over what you posted, and let's see what I agree and disagree with..  




Jason posted: "Mr. Houteff says: "The sealing of the 144,000 can not extend to the close of probation, for they must be sealed long before that time, and it must close before the loud cry of the third angel's message."-The Shepherd's Rod, p. 35. Also: "If we were to mark out the exact time of the beginning of this sealing, we would say it began sometime during 1929."-The Shepherd's Rod, p.32.
Why 1929? Because he claims that light on the sealing work was given to him in that year (The Shepherd's Rod, p.157)."

 I agree,  the sealing of the 144,000 can not extend to the close of probation, they are sealed before that time, before the Loud Cry. What's the problem with that? The SOP in the writings of EGW confirms this. 

 In regards to 1929, not sure about that, I would have to study that deeper. 

   


Jason posted: ""The time has fully arrived for the 144,000 to come into line with God's program for the finishing of His work and the preparing of them for translation." -The Great Paradox of the Ages (1941), p.66

 He declared that those who accepted his message, and lived it as he directed, would never die, but would be translated without tasting death. Note the following statement penned by him to his adherents in 1934: "keep your knees in motion and let not opportunities be neglected, for the final movements shall be rapid ones. ' Thus shall you 'walk with God' as Enoch of old, and as he was translated without tasting death so shall you be. "-The Symbolic Code, Volume 1, No. 4 (October 15, 1934), p.4."

 I don't see a Biblical problem here, I do see someone who thought the end times were at hand and if that is what he believed then I can could see why he would think he was a part of the 144,000. 


Jason posted : "About six months later he published in an official Shepherd's Rod organ this statement: "Moreover, as the Shepherd's Rod is the Elijah message (Testimonies to Ministers, p 475))t is impossible for anyone who accepts it and lives it to die, for the type demands translation. Thus it is that Elijah stands as a type of the 144,000."-The Symbolic Code, No. 9, (March 15, 1935), p.9.

In the following year he declared: "There is nothing that can take the life of the 144,000."-The Symbolic Code, Volume 2, Nos. 7-8 (July-August, 1936), p.11.

 Again, there is nothing Biblically wrong here, on one hand he's right the 144,000 won't die, but him thinking he was   one of the 144,000 wasn't correct. 


Jason posted: "And in the next year he thus defended his recent marriage against the criticism of some of his followers: "Those who believe in Present Truth, yet continue to find fault with Brother Houteff's marriage, prove to us one of two things: either that they are shallow thinkers, or that they have no faith in what they believe, for the message teaches that we, as a part of the 144,000, shall never die. "-The Symbolic Code, Volume 3, Nos. 5-6 (May-June, 1937), p.8.

 I agree the 144,000 shall never die, the situations surrounding his marriage I'm to concerned with, I'm just focus on what is taught. But if you want an opinion, I would say that was strange, but back then in the south allot of things were strange. How could parents condone it, I don't know.


Jason posted: "Nevertheless, this notice concerning Mr. Houteff himself, the chief propagator of the Shepherd's Rod message concerning the 144,000, appeared in his own paper: "Victor Tasho Houteff was born in Raicovo, Bulgaria, March 2, 1885, and died February 5,1955, at the Hillcrest Hospital in Waco, Texas." The Symbolic Code, Volume 10, Nos. 34 (January-February, 1955), p.9.
A few weeks later a statement was issued under the title "V. T. Houteff's Death in Relation to the Message," which said: "Brother Houteff's death may be a shock and a surprise." - The Symbolic Code, Volume 10, No.5 (March,1955),p.11.

  I won't fault a person because they thought they were close to Jesus' second coming, and thought they would be one of the 144,000. Once again, my focus is what is taught Biblically. 


Jason wrote: "I will post what Doug believes and what I believe some other time"

No worries I'll post the link now, it's something you posted many times from pastor Doug, it's something you promoted, so I assume you believe what he writes in his book 'Who will sing the song? Understanding the 144,000.'.

 https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/86/t/who-will-sin...

 What's in Doug B's book that you posted many times don't you believe? 

In regards to the 144,000, pastor Doug believes and teaches what the Davidians universally teach. 

Blessings! 


 

the problem is that you are blind and therefore can't see the problem. This is just one of the doctrines. Not because we have a few things in common makes his teaching right. Many of the offshoots have many things in common with us but this does not make what they believe truth. 

If you can't see anything wrong in the above quotes then I don't expect you to change your mind on this issue; it's a lost cause. 

quotes from Doug 

 My first clue that there must be a spiritual meaning to the 144,000 was the way in which the tribes are listed in Revelation 7:5-8. This is the only time in Scripture that the names of the tribes appear in this order. 

...

...Now some may be thinking, "How can you say that the names are symbolic but the number is literal?" It's simple. Jesus did. He did not seem to care which tribes the 12 apostles came from, but He did purposely choose 12 of them. Also remember that all of the numbers in Revelation depict a specific value, while all the proper names in Revelation are symbols (the Lamb, the Dragon, the Lion, Balaam, Jezebel, etc.).

...For these reasons and others, I believe the number 144,000 is a precise figure. Just as there were actually 12 literal tribes in the Old Testament and exactly 12 apostles in the New Testament, there will be 12 times 12,000 spiritual apostles in the last days.

The Bible does not teach that the 144,000 are to be the only ones saved in the last days. Immediately after listing the tribes of the 144,000, the prophet sees that "a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands." Revelation 7:9.

...Now the Bible speaks of two great tribulations in prophecy. One was during the papal persecution of the Dark Ages, when millions of Christians were slain. But the primary "great tribulation" must refer to the time just before Christ's second coming, as referred to in Daniel 12:12: "And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

In the last days, Jesus will use 144,000 (12 times 12,000) spiritual apostles, whose primary mission is to reach the world with the news of His second coming. The great multitude spoken of in Revelation chapter 7 is converted by the influence and preaching of the 144,000 following the outpouring of the Holy Spirit in the latter rain.

Even now, Jesus is training an army of special forces to lead in this final mission of rescuing God's children, who have become Satan's prisoners of war. Revelation 14:4 proclaims of the 144,000: "These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth."

Peace 

Jason wrote: "the problem is that you are blind and therefore can't see the problem. This is just one of the doctrines. Not because we have a few things in common makes his teaching right. Many of the offshoots have many things in common with us but this does not make what they believe truth.
If you can't see anything wrong in the above quotes then I don't expect you to change your mind on this issue; it's a lost cause. "

 No, not true... I just want to see what is taught and weigh it by the Bible and the SOP.

 That's my point bro., I'm saying there are things we have in common that is Truth. So, it's good to identify what exactly we hold in common and what are our differences. 

Jason wrote: "quotes from Doug "

 What exactly do you believe and disagree with in the quotes you provided? 

Pastor Doug B. wrote: " In the last days, Jesus will use 144,000 (12 times 12,000) spiritual apostles, whose primary mission is to reach the world with the news of His second coming. The great multitude spoken of in Revelation chapter 7 is converted by the influence and preaching of the 144,000 following the outpouring of the Holy Spirit in the latter rain."

Do you agree with this statement? Do you believe the 144,000 are the ones to convert or bring in the Great multitude into GOD'S Church from out of the fallen churches and the world? 

Bless! 

Nowhere in the writings of Mrs. White do we find it said or implied that before the close of probation the identity of the 144,000 spoken of in Revelation 7 will be revealed to us, or that as such they will assume control of the church militant and from headquarters in Palestine officially direct its activities for the finishing of the work of the gospel on earth. Nowhere do we find it said that the 144,000 are to be presented to God as first fruits before the close of probation.

Stan your ground Jason.

Discussing this issue is really a total waste of time. We have had a few split churches because of this false doctrine. I had long discussion with a young first elder on this issue. Eventually he had to be discharged. Satan is using his agents effectively but some are not aware that they are deceived. So sad ...

 

Yes Jason Satan is using church member to destroy the church. And many many member is let them be use through Satan agents. Every wind of doctrine is wing in. That is why Ellen G. White say the church appear about to fall but it will not, because Jesus is at the wheel.

Stand true to your doctrine, and hold fast to Jesus.

God bless you Jason.   

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