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Who are the "true" davidians, are they the shepherds rod or ???

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When will the Final When is this terrible and dreadful day of the Lord?

Elijah Appear?
Malachi 4:5-6:

“Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of
the LORD. 6 And he will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the hearts of the
children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the earth with a curse."

Malachi 4:1-3: 

“For behold, the day is coming, burning like an oven, and all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly
will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up," says the LORD of hosts, "That
will leave them neither root nor branch. 2 But to you who fear My name the Sun of
Righteousness shall arise with healing in His wings; aAnd you shall go out and grow fat like
stall-fed calves. 3 You shall trample the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your
feet on the day that I do this," says the LORD of hosts.”
Principles:

Elijah must appear immediately before the second coming of Jesus. Where would we look in
the Bible for this Elijah? It would have to be in Revelation, the last book of the Bible. In
revelation, the trilogy of his opponents must also appear because Elijah never appears alone.
In the Old Testament literal Elijah was sent with a message to literal Israel. His enemy was a
literal harlot, who committed literal fornication with a literal king and had literal false
prophets who promoted literal worship to the literal sun god Baal. At the end, the
geographical, personal and ethnic limitations are removed and the persons in the Old
Testament story become symbolic of spiritual and worldwide systems. In other words: Elijah,
Israel, Jezebel, Ahab, Baal and his prophets all are symbolic of worldwide systems at the
end.
Let’s first of all take a look at Apocalyptic Elijah’s enemies

Revelation 16:19
“Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great
Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His
wrath.”

Revelation 16:13
“And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the
mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.”
The Three Enemies one by one

Revelation 12:4: Dragon
“And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as
soon as it was born.”

Ezekiel 29:3: Pharaoh is the dragon
“Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt,
the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I
have made it for myself.” KJV

“Kings and rulers and governors have placed upon themselves the brand of antichrist, and are
represented as the dragon who goes to make war with the saints--with those who keep the
commandments of God and who have the faith of Jesus.” Testimonies to Ministers, p. 39
Revelation 13:1, 2: Beast rules three and a half times and kills God’s people just like
Jezebel

“Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven
heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. 2 Now
the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like
the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority.”

Revelation 17:1, 5: The literal harlot mother represents a worldwide harlot church
“Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and talked with me, saying to me,
"Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters. . . 5 And on
her forehead a name was written: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF
HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Revelation 17:15: She sits on the waters. She is a global Jezebel
“Then he said to me, "The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes,
nations, and tongues.”

Revelation 13:11: This is an image beast which does everything to please the first beast. This
beast does what the first beast tells it to do
“Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and
spoke like a dragon.”

Revelation 17:5: Daughters must have been born from her and after her, of course
“And on her forehead a name was written: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER
OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.”

John XXIII and Paul VI addressed Protestants at the Second Vatican Council as daughters
alienated from their mother.

Explain how Roman Catholicism used the state to accomplish her purposes. But in 1798 the
state bucked her off its back and therefore she has a deadly wound. (Revelation 13:3) She will
get her power back by persuading her daughters to influence the kings to do what the she
wants. The harlot controls the kings through her daughter and thus she controls the people of
God

Kings – Mother – Daughters

Revelation 18:23: She was involved in witchcraft just like Jezebel
“The light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall
not be heard in you anymore. For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your
sorcery all the nations were deceived.”

Revelation 17:6: A murderer of God’s people
“I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.
And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.”
Revelation 18:24

“And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth."
Mission and Message of Elijah

Malachi 4:5, 6: A message for God’s people to return to God
“Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of
the LORD. 6 And he will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the hearts of the
children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the earth with a curse."
Revelation 18:4: A message for God’s people

“And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in
her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.”

Revelation 14:8: She gives wine to the nations
“And another angel followed, saying, "Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she
has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication."

Revelation 14:6: Everlasting gospel

“Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach
to those who dwell on the earth--to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people.”
Revelation 14:7: Call to worship the Creator
“. . . saying with a loud voice, "Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment
has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water."
Revelation 14:9-11: Rebuke to those who worship the beast or his image or receive his mark

Isaiah 66:22, 23: The Sabbath and worship
 At the end the issue will be the Sunday and not the sun (Baal).
 Same principle. Serving Christ and at the same time keeping a pagan day in His honor.
Where did Israel get Baal worship from? From paganism, of course. Where did the
Christian world get Sunday worship from? From paganism, of course. This is really
limping between two opinions

 Who made the sun and the first day of the week?
Revelation 14:12: The commandments of God
“Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the
faith of Jesus.”

Revelation 14:8: Rebuke of fornication with the kings
“And another angel followed, saying, "Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she
has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication."

Revelation 17:1, 2: Fornication with the kings

“Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and talked with me, saying to me,
"Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters, 2 with whom
the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk
with the wine of her fornication."

Revelation 14:7: The hour of God’s judgment. Separation of righteous from the wicked. When
the message is finished there are only two groups, one for salvation and the other for
destruction: the grapes and the harvest
“. . . saying with a loud voice, "Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment
has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water."
Very little effect so far

Revelation 18:1-5: A global Carmel where God’s people will be called to make a decision for
or against the creator

Revelation 18:1-5
“After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and
the earth was illuminated with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a loud voice, saying,
"Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become a dwelling place of demons, a prison for
every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird! 3 For all the nations have drunk
of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with
her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury." 4
And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in
her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached to heaven, and God
has remembered her iniquities.”

Thousands in the Christian world will be converted to the Lord.
Revelation 14:14-20 Only two groups after this message is preached: Those who have God’s
Seal and those who have the mark of the beast, the grapes and the harvest
Revelation 12:17: This power will once again war against God’s people because they have the
gift of prophecy like Elijah and they keep the commandments of God
“And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her
offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
Matthew 24:6-9. God’s people will be blamed for the calamities and will have to flee like
Elijah.

This is the same eschatological time frame as Revelation because it is dealing with
events which lead to the great final tribulation
“And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these
things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and
kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various
places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9 Then they will deliver you up to tribulation
and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.”

Matthew 24:15-20 God’s people will once again have to flee to desolate places
"Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet,
standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 then let those who are in
Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out
of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those
who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your
flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as
has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.”
God’s people will be sustained

“The people of God will not be free from suffering; but while persecuted and distressed, while
they endure privation and suffer for want of food they will not be left to perish. That God who
cared for Elijah will not pass by one of His self-sacrificing children. He who numbers the hairs
of their head will care for them, and in time of famine they shall be satisfied. While the wicked
are dying from hunger and pestilence, angels will shield the righteous and supply their wants.”
The Great Controversy, p. 629

Revelation 13:15: A death decree against God’s people
“He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast
should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.”
The end of the unfaithful pastors (Revelation 16:12)

The people see that they have been deluded. They accuse one another of having led them to
destruction; but all unite in heaping their bitterest condemnation upon the ministers. Unfaithful
pastors have prophesied smooth things; they have led their hearers to make void the law of God
and to persecute those who would keep it holy. Now, in their despair, these teachers confess
before the world their work of deception. The multitudes are filled with fury. "We are lost!" they
cry, "and you are the cause of our ruin;" and they turn upon the false shepherds. The very ones
that once admired them most will pronounce the most dreadful curses upon them. The very hands
that once crowned them with laurels will be raised for their destruction. The swords which were
to slay God's people are now employed to destroy their enemies. Everywhere there is strife and
bloodshed.” The Great Controversy, p. 655, 656

Revelation 17:16: The end of the harlot system
“And the ten horns [kings] which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her
desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire.”

Revelation 14:19, 20
“So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw it into
the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trampled outside the city, and
blood came out of the winepress, up to the horses' bridles, for one thousand six hundred
furlongs.”

Revelation 19 because you have the same elements such as the trampling of the winepress
(19:15), the horses (19:14) and blood (19:21)
Revelation 19:17, 18: The great banquet of the birds and the beasts
“Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds
that fly in the midst of heaven, "Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18
that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of
horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and
great."

Revelation 19:1, 2: God has judged and avenged the blood of His people just like he did with
Jezebel in the Old Testament.
“After these things I heard a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, "Alleluia!
Salvation and glory and honor and power belong to the Lord our God! 2 For true and righteous
are His judgments, because He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her
fornication; and He has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her."
Revelation 18:20: God avenges the blood of His people

"Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you holy apostles and prophets, for God has avenged you on
her!"
Soon there appears in the east a small black cloud, about half the size of a man's hand. It is the
cloud which surrounds the Saviour and which seems in the distance to be shrouded in darkness.
The people of God know this to be the sign of the Son of man. In solemn silence they gaze upon it
as it draws nearer the earth, becoming lighter and more glorious, until it is a great white cloud,
its base a glory like consuming fire, and above it the rainbow of the covenant. Jesus rides forth
as a mighty conqueror.” The Great Controversy, pp. 640, 641
Matthew 24:29-31
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not
give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will
mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great
glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather
together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”

Psalms 68:17
“The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of thousands; the Lord is among them
as in Sinai, in the Holy Place.”
Ezekiel 1 adds to the picture.

II Kings 6:17
“And Elisha prayed, and said, "LORD, I pray, open his eyes that he may see." Then the LORD
opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw. And behold, the mountain was full of horses and
chariots of fire all around Elisha.”

“On each side of the cloudy chariot are wings, and beneath it are living wheels; and as the
chariot rolls upward, the wheels cry, "Holy," and the wings, as they move, cry, "Holy," and the
retinue of angels cry, "Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty." And the redeemed shout,
"Alleluia!" as the chariot moves onward toward the New Jerusalem.” The Great Controversy, p.
645

I Thessalonians 4:15-17
“For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the
coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will
descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up
together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with Lord.”
There is a very simple way to find Elijah in the last days: Find those who are preaching the
same message which Elijah preached. Also if you are with the persecuted you are on the right
side. If you are a persecutor you will be on the wrong side!

This is what I believe in.

“Perhaps their grossest distortion of fact [those speaking
against the Rod] is the statement: ‘When the attention of
the author of the Shepherd’s Rod was called to this direct
contradiction, he did not deny it, but claimed that his
interpretation should be accepted because Sister White did
not have the complete light on the subject. This allegation
[that he claimed his interpretation should be accepted in
lieu of EGW’s] deals either in fabrication or
misconstruction, for at no time have we made any such
statement, neither indeed could have made it, as we believe
the Rod to be in perfect harmony with the writings of Sister
White.” – A Reply to the Shepherd’s Rod, pg 42.

Now this statement is very interesting because it shows that
others had found where Houteff’s writings and White’s did not
agree. But the most interesting point about this statement is what
is discovered when his words here are compared to another
Houteff statement recorded in another one of his publications.
Along with the Shepherds Rod, Houteff distributed various
other publications one of which was called the Symbolic Code. It
was presented in a format that allowed individuals to write in and
ask Houteff questions about different topics. In one particular
instance in Symbolic Code, Vol. 1, No. 10, pg. 9 when someone

again brought up a contradiction between his writings and White’s,
he answered in this way: Question: "5 T 212, bottom of page, seems to teach that the
destroying weapons [in Ezekiel 9] are the seven last
plagues. The SRod teaches that Ezek. 9 is the purification
of the church. Please explain the apparent contradiction."
Answer: Relative to 5 T 212, let us first observe a parallel,
in certain respects, from pre-Noatic times. Jude proves that
Enoch was a messenger of God, and yet that he warned his
generation of the destruction of the world by the second
advent of Christ when, in fact, the flood was the event
which was to and subsequently did destroy the world of
Enoch's time! Enoch simply was not shown the truth of
the flood. Therefore, he preached the destruction then in
terms of the coming of the Lord. So it was with Sr. White.
As no one had light on the destruction of Ezekiel 9 she
made the comparison with it to the seven last plagues with
which they were more conversant.

Though he claims no one had light on the destruction of
Ezekiel 9, Ellen G. White makes several comments concerning the
events that take place in Ezekiel 9 and what some of the symbols
represent. Peter also makes an interesting reference to Ezekiel 9,
but I digress.

Despite White’s numerous quotes explaining what the
symbols of Ezekiel 9 stand for, Houteff gives an answer here much
like the one he claims was a gross distortion of fact earlier. “When
the attention of the author of the Shepherd’s Rod was called to this
direct contradiction, he did not deny it, but claimed that his
interpretation should be accepted because Sister White did not
have the complete light on the subject.” In the discourse recorded
in the Symbolic Code he does not deny that he and White 

contradict each other, he just claims that no one had light on the
subject. Apparently, though, he must believe he found the light
because he presents his theory on the matter and expects the one
who asked the question and those who read his answer to accept
his interpretation.

The problem here though does not just rest with the fact
that Ellen G. White gives clear information about Ezekiel 9 that
does not agree with Houteff. The problem is that in trying to
justify and reconcile one contradiction with White, he creates
another one. He makes the statement, “Enoch simply was not
shown the truth of the flood!”

This is an even more easily proven contradiction with
White than is the one involving Ezekiel 9 and it is hoped that the
individual who asked the question recognized this upon further
investigation.

Ellen G. White says in Spirit of Prophecy Vol. 1 pg. 6,
concerning Enoch’s knowledge of the flood:
“God communed with Enoch through His angels and gave
him divine instruction. He made known to him that He
would not always bear with man in his rebellion that His
purpose was to destroy the sinful race by bringing a flood
of waters upon the earth.”
And in Patriarchs and Prophets, pg. 85:

“Through holy angels, God revealed to Enoch His purpose
to destroy the world by flood, and He also opened more
fully to him the plan of redemption. By the Spirit of
prophecy He carried him down through the generations that
should live after the flood, and showed him the great events
connected with the second coming of Christ and the end of
the world.” And pg. 92:

“Enoch had repeated to his children what God had shown
him in regard to the flood, and Methuselah and his sons,
who lived to hear the preaching of Noah, assisted in
building the ark.”
So while Houteff insists that Enoch “simply did not know
the truth of the flood”, Ellen G. White is quite clear that he did and
not only knew, but shared that knowledge with his children,
naming Methuselah and his sons (one of which was Noah’s father,
Lamech), who assisted Noah in the building of the ark.
When I brought these contradictions to Saul’s attention, he
stopped trying to prove Houteff’s statements in regard to their
agreement with White’s and began instead to chastise me for
comparing Houteff to White instead of to the Scriptures because
they are to be the final word.
I agree that the Scriptures are the final word; however it
seemed quite convenient for Saul’s argument that Houteff was
allowed to make the statement that his writings agreed with White
and even use some of her writings to try and support his theories,
but when I used the same process to disprove them, I was denied
the privilege and chastised for doing so.
While the argument can be proven with just White’s
writings,, “One may 
come and say that he has truth, and such teachers will multiply, but
we must not take their word in the matter. We must go directly to
the Word. Feelings should not be our guide. The plain declaration
of the Word is what is required,” --Manuscript 43, 1886.
Reading the Scriptures did help me better understand.

"A double minded man is unstable in all ways." James 1:8.


The word double minded here in Greek is dipsychos which means:
divided in interest. Houteff’s words
in this instance to be true he resorted to criticizing the way I
reached my conclusion to reject the Rod.

This is Houteff blanket statements! Error must be called by its right name. I said it how I see it!

Quotes from a deceived Davidian ( Shepherd Rod) 

""V. T. Houteff was the first of the seven Spirits of God. He was attached to Christ the Lamb as the first seal  was opened. 

Houteff was the third angel messenger of Revelation 14. Here is the third angel's message as described  in No. 33, "Seven American Angels, Part 1."

Houteff was the Lamb on earth during the Holocaust... Houteff was the first of the seven Spirits of God...  The seven Spirits of God are attached to Christ, bone to his bone and flesh to his flesh (horns and eyes),  as he opens the seals. (Rev. 5:7-14; Rev. 6:1)... since they are the horns and the eyes of the Lamb when 
they are attached to Him, they must each be a Lamb in separate manifestation. They fulfill the Lamb 
prophecies found in the Revelation."" (For a full explanation, see No. 33, "Seven American Angels, Part 
1").

I also believe that Houteff fulfilled Revelation 3:3, Christ come as a thief. "Remember therefore how thou  hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee  as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." (Rev. 3:3). There is a long and 
regrettably complicated proof that Houteff was Christ come as a thief on this web site (see No. 24, "What If 
Christ Had Already Come As A Thief?") and a shorter version as well (see No. 27, "Sudden Harvest"). I 
invite you to research them.

"“Here we are definitely told that in the latter days, God's saints, without a sinner among them, are to be  gathered together from the four corners of the earth, and be organized into a Theocratic government, of  which antitypical David is to be the king

"“Christians have for centuries preached the Kingdom of God, but it is not as yet clear to most of them  whether It is to be tangible as the earth itself, or whether It is to be something foamy, something floating  in space, or what? Inspiration, however, clearly declares that the Kingdom of Christ (the church purified-- 
cleansed Dan. 8:14) is to be as real as any of the kingdoms of earth.”" (Ibid, "Timely Greetings," Vol. 2, 
1948, No. 21, pp. 7,8).

finally, like John the Baptist and Christ, Houteff was the Elijah for a specific holy person who would follow  him. As you may have noticed above in the discussion of God's Kingdom, Houteff taught the Davidian King  who would rule in God's Kingdom. Here is part of that message.""

That holy person is Satan their leader who will set up his kingdom 

There are several instances where Houteff
takes interpreted dreams or visions and reinterprets them to fit his
theories

Jacob’s Time of Trouble and the Time of Trouble:

Houteff teaches that Jacob’s Time of Trouble takes place
before the close of probation. That is must take place before the
144,000 are taken into the kingdom. He also teaches that “the time
of trouble such as there never was since there was a nation” will be
happening while the 144, 000 are safe in the kingdom and leaving
its safety only to go and bring in the great multitude.

Again, White’s writings contradict this. Scripture doesn’t
even mention anything of the sort. She places Jacob’s time of
trouble after the close of probation a time when God’s people stand
without a mediator as Christ has left the Sanctuary. She says in
Spirit of Prophecy Vol. 4, Chapter 34, pg. 431-432:

“When the third message closes, mercy no longer pleads
for the guilty inhabitants of earth. The people of God have
accomplished their work; they have received the latter rain,
or the refreshing from the presence of the Lord and they are
prepared for the trying hour before them. Angels are
hurrying to and fro in heaven. An angel returning from
earth announces that his work is done, the seal of God has
been placed upon His people. Then Jesus ceases His
intercession in the sanctuary above. He lifts His hands, and
with a loud voice says, ‘It is done’; and all the angelic host
lay of their crowns as He makes the solemn announcement:
“He that is unjust, let him be unjust still; he that is filthy, let
him be filthy still; and he that is righteous, let him be
righteous still, and he that is holy let him be holy still.’
Every case has been decided for life or death. Christ has
made the atonement for his people, and blotted out their
sins. The number of His subjects is made up; ‘the kingdom
and dominion and the greatness of the kingdom under the
whole heaven is about to be given to the heirs of salvation,
and Jesus is to reign as king of kings and Lord of Lords.

When He leaves the sanctuary, darkness covers the
inhabitants of the earth. In that fearful time the righteous
must live in the sight of a holy God without an intercessor.
The restraint which has been upon the wicked is removed,
and Satan has entire control of the finally impenitent. The
power attending the last warning has enraged them, and
their anger is kindled against all who have received the
message. The people of God are then plunged into those
scenes of affliction and distress described by the prophet as
the time of Jacob’s Trouble.” (Jer. 30: 5-7)

Here we see not only does Jacob’s time of trouble take
place after the close of probation, but also that EVERY case is
decided. After Christ divests of His priestly robes, Michael
(Christ) stands up and His people are soon delivered out of it. This
is the Ezekiel 9 slaughtering time (not at all spiritual, but literal)
and also what is referred to as the time of trouble when the 7
plagues are being poured out. Here we see that contrary to
Houteff’s theory the Ezekiel 9 slaughtering is the general
destruction of the wicked, not a time reserved exclusively for those
in the church who reject his message. White says,

“Unless they repent, and leave the work of Satan in
oppressing those who have the burden of the work and in
holding up the hands of sinners in Zion, they will never
receive the mark of God’s seal of approval. They will fall
in the general destruction of the wicked, represented by the
work of the five men bearing slaughter weapons.
Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 3, pg. 267.

This happen when one go in error.;

Jacob’s Time of Trouble and the Time of Trouble:

Houteff teaches that Jacob’s Time of Trouble takes place
before the close of probation. That is must take place before the
144,000 are taken into the kingdom. He also teaches that “the time
of trouble such as there never was since there was a nation” will be
happening while the 144, 000 are safe in the kingdom and leaving
its safety only to go and bring in the great multitude.

Again, White’s writings contradict this. Scripture doesn’t
even mention anything of the sort. She places Jacob’s time of
trouble after the close of probation a time when God’s people stand
without a mediator as Christ has left the Sanctuary. She says in
Spirit of Prophecy Vol. 4, Chapter 34, pg. 431-432:

“When the third message closes, mercy no longer pleads
for the guilty inhabitants of earth. The people of God have
accomplished their work; they have received the latter rain,
or the refreshing from the presence of the Lord and they are
prepared for the trying hour before them. Angels are
hurrying to and fro in heaven. An angel returning from
earth announces that his work is done, the seal of God has
been placed upon His people. Then Jesus ceases His
intercession in the sanctuary above. He lifts His hands, and
with a loud voice says, ‘It is done’; and all the angelic host
lay of their crowns as He makes the solemn announcement:
“He that is unjust, let him be unjust still; he that is filthy, let
him be filthy still; and he that is righteous, let him be
righteous still, and he that is holy let him be holy still.’
Every case has been decided for life or death. Christ has
made the atonement for his people, and blotted out their
sins. The number of His subjects is made up; ‘the kingdom
and dominion and the greatness of the kingdom under the
whole heaven is about to be given to the heirs of salvation,
and Jesus is to reign as king of kings and Lord of Lords.
52
When He leaves the sanctuary, darkness covers the
inhabitants of the earth. In that fearful time the righteous
must live in the sight of a holy God without an intercessor.
The restraint which has been upon the wicked is removed,
and Satan has entire control of the finally impenitent. The
power attending the last warning has enraged them, and
their anger is kindled against all who have received the
message. The people of God are then plunged into those
scenes of affliction and distress described by the prophet as
the time of Jacob’s Trouble.” (Jer. 30: 5-7)

Here we see not only does Jacob’s time of trouble take
place after the close of probation, but also that EVERY case is
decided. After Christ divests of His priestly robes, Michael
(Christ) stands up and His people are soon delivered out of it. This
is the Ezekiel 9 slaughtering time (not at all spiritual, but literal)
and also what is referred to as the time of trouble when the 7
plagues are being poured out. Here we see that contrary to
Houteff’s theory the Ezekiel 9 slaughtering is the general
destruction of the wicked, not a time reserved exclusively for those
in the church who reject his message. White says,

“Unless they repent, and leave the work of Satan in
oppressing those who have the burden of the work and in
holding up the hands of sinners in Zion, they will never
receive the mark of God’s seal of approval. They will fall
in the general destruction of the wicked, represented by the
work of the five men bearing slaughter weapons.
Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 3, pg. 267.

This happen when one go in error.;

There are several instances where Houteff takes interpreted dreams an vision 

and reinterprets them to fin his thoeries.

Like Matthews 13, the wheat and tares. Jesus say let bothe growth together until the end of the world.

Bud Houteff reinterprets it to fit his theories.

Also Daniel 2. Daniel speaks of kingdoms. Houteff reintrepret it as church. 

If the image is kingdoms the stone also most be kingdom.

This man have a problem with we reinterpret thing in the Bible.

I can go on and on!

Peace 

EGW: "The tares and the wheat are to grow together until the harvest; and the harvest is the end of probationary time. – COL 71

  I see the problem, you and brother Jason are confusing "until the harvest " and the harvest is the "end of the world" to mean when Jesus comes and all eyes can see Him... That's when y'all think the separation will happen. 

 But EGW is very specific, she says the tares and the wheat are to grow together until the harvest, and she says specifically the harvest is the "end of probationary time".... Ok, our question should be, when is the end of probationary time? 

 The SDA teaching is that the end of probationary time is right before the last plagues start, the harvest will be over.... it's not when Jesus comes in the clouds, but when the last plagues start, this is too considered the "end of the world". 

 Your thinking and teaching has tares in the Church until Jesus comes in the clouds, when in fact there won't be any tares in the Church during the time of harvest of the great multitude. So no tares in the Church at the beginning, middle or end of the harvest/end of probationary time. 

 

 

EGW: "Notwithstanding Christ’s warning, men have sought to uproot the tares. To punish those who were supposed to be evildoers, the church has had recourse to the civil power. Those who differed from the established doctrines have been imprisoned, put to torture and to death, at the instigation of men who claimed to be acting under the sanction of Christ. But it is the spirit of Satan, not the Spirit of Christ, that inspires such acts. This is Satan’s own method of bringing the world under his dominion. God has been misrepresented through the church by this way of dealing with those supposed to be heretics. – {COL 74.1}
Not judgment and condemnation of others, but humility and distrust of self, is the teaching of Christ’s parable. Not all that is sown in the field is good grain. The fact that men are in the church does not prove them Christians. – {COL 74.2}
The tares closely resembled the wheat while the blades were green; but when the field was white for the harvest, the worthless weeds bore no likeness to the wheat that bowed under the weight of its full, ripe heads. Sinners who make a pretension of piety mingle for a time with the true followers of Christ, and the semblance of Christianity is calculated to deceive many; but in the harvest of the world there will be no likeness between good and evil. Then those who have joined the church, but who have not joined Christ, will be manifest. – {COL 74.3}

  Brother Benicio, why are you and Jason teaching that there will be weeds in the Church during the harvest? There won't be "no likeness between good and evil" during the harvest. EGW said those in the Church who has not joined Christ, "will be manifest".

 I know you have deep, deep, passionate destine for the Davidians, mainly VTH, but is it so deep, that you would teach things that aren't true just so you can say you don't believe anything he teaches? The answer is obvious, you would and you are. 

 

 also, what do you believe the shaking in the SDA Church accomplishes? In other words, what's the reason for the shaking? 

Blessings!

Anthony I know that you are a stone cold Shephed’s Rod.

Jesus said let both growth togther untill the harvest which is the end of the world.

Why you Davidians like to reinterpreted what Jesus said.

Read Him like it is. Take Him as He read. Is that sow difficult? Take Him how it read.

There are several instances where Houteff takes interpreted dreams, vision and parables, reinterpreted them to fit his theories.

like Matthew 13, the wheat and tares. Jesus say let both growth together until the harvest which is the end of the world. Houteff like to reinterpreted, misunderstands and  misapplied.

Christ's Object Lessons pg 74-75

The tares closely resembled the wheat while the blades
were green; but when the field was white for the harvest,
the worthless weeds bore no likeness to the wheat that
bowed under the weight of its full, ripe heads. Sinners who
make a pretension of piety mingle for a time with the true
followers of Christ, and the semblance of Christianity is
calculated to deceive many; but in the harvest of the world
there will be no likeness between good and evil. Then those
who have joined the church, but who have not joined
Christ, will be manifest.

The tares are permitted to grow among the wheat, to have
all the advantage of sun and shower; but in the time of
harvest ye shall "return, and discern between the
righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth
God and him that serveth Him not." Mal. 3:18. Christ
Himself will decide who are worthy to dwell with the
family of heaven. He will judge every man according to his
words and his works. Profession is as nothing in the scale.
It is character that decides destiny.

The Saviour does not point forward to a time when all the
tares become wheat. The wheat and tares grow together
until the harvest, the end of the world. Then the tares are
bound in bundles to be burned, and the wheat is gathered
into the garner of God. "Then shall the righteous shine forth
as the sun in the kingdom of their Father." Then "the Son of
man shall send forth His angels, and they shall gather out of
His kingdom all things that offend, and them which do
iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire; there
shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

She says that the wheat and tares will grow together until
the harvest, the end of the world. And she says at the time of
harvest ye (meaning Christ) shall return and discern which places
the harvest at Christ’s second coming.

Houteff teaches that Hebrews 9:24-26 puts the end of the world
when Christ appeared to “put away sin by the sacrifice of himself”
but the problem here is that the verse says in the end of the world.

For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with
hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven
itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high
priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of
others;
For then must he often have suffered since the
foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the
world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of
himself.
That he died in the end of the world is true for His sacrifice
was the exclamation point on the plan of salvation. It was the
sacrifice that all other sacrifices, from the beginning of the world
when Adam first killed a lamb for his sins to the very sacrifice that
was in the midst of happening when the curtain of the temple was
torn apart from top to bottom, pointed to and was the last and only
sacrifice that covered the sins of all.
Because Satan saw that he was unsuccessful in causing
Jesus to fall, he immediately began to set into motion the things by
which the world will end. 

Jesus said let both growth together until the harvest which is the end of the world.

Why you Davidians like to reinterpreted what Jesus said.

Read Him like it is. Take Him as He read. Is that sow difficult? Take Him how it read.

Anthony is sis White a lair?“

"The tares and the wheat are to grow together until the harvest is the end of probationary time.” Ibid., 72, italics added.

The wheat and the tares grow together until the harvest, the end of the world.” Ibid., 75, italics added.

“Till the end of time there will be tare among the wheat,” The Ministry of Healing, 493, italics added.

“Although there are evil existing in the church and will be until the end of the world, the church in these last days is to be the light of the world that is polluted and demoralized by sin.” Testimonies to Ministers 49, italics added

“He (Christ) has said that false brethren will be found in the church till the close of time.” ( Christ’s Object Lessons, 73, italics added.

Do you see the consistently between the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy?

Now Anthony which part do you do not understand? I mean the Spirit of Prophecy is very clear for me!

Their is now consistently between the SR message and you with the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy.

There is no consistence in you guys!  

Amen

Peace 

Benicio wrote: "Anthony is sis White a lair?"

  No, I haven't found that to be the case.

 I believe you are interpreting "the end of the world " as just being the time Jesus comes in the clouds when all eyes can see Him....

 .... Instead of interpreting "end of the world " as spanning a period of time from the start of harvest time of ingathering  to the end of harvest , which is also the end of probationary time. 

 The start of the 7 last plagues is considered "the end of the world ", but it's not the absolute end, the absolute end is when Jesus comes in the clouds when all eyes can see Him. 

EGW : The tares closely resembled the wheat while the blades were green; but when the field was white for the harvest, the worthless weeds bore no likeness to the wheat that bowed under the weight of its full, ripe heads. Sinners who make a pretension of piety mingle for a time with the true followers of Christ, and the semblance of Christianity is calculated to deceive many; but in the harvest of the world there will be no likeness between good and evil. Then those who have joined the church, but who have not joined Christ, will be manifest. – {COL 74.3}

In harvest for the world there won't be likeness between good and evil... This is before Jesus comes in the clouds when all eyes can see Him.. During the harvest or "in the harvest " there won't be mingling between sinners and saints. 

Do you believe the "end of probationary time" is the time of Jesus' second coming when all eyes can see Him? 

 What do you believe the reason is for the shaking in the Church?

Blessings! 

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