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Who are the "true" davidians, are they the shepherds rod or ???

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it is my understanding that the dsda or shepherds rod people are a special group of people who portrays to be an elite class of people, portraying to be part of the 144,000 people and that they have attained sinlessness while here on earth. it is also my understanding that they can and possibly will bear arms if they need to defend themselves similiar to the incident that happened in waco texas. please share your thoughts to this open discussion and lets try to find out more about our brothers and sisters in Christ who are growing in numbers 144,000 in achieving their goals and sharing their thoughts here in adventist online.

If what you are stating here is true--and I know that it is--the question is how come the Administrator has not stepped in and closed and/or removed the threads?  If the Sheperd's Rod message--or any other faith, denomination is being taught directly here, is that not a violation of the Board Rules?  As they were officially disfellowshipped from the Seventh-day Adventist Church for blatant and unrepentant error from within, according to Matthew 18, then they should not be allowed to spread their teachings.


To me, this seems very simple, but perhaps I am missing something.  Have you informed the Site Administrator of this?

Hi Sarah


Well I suppose that solves it then, but no...


" God calls upon those who hold responsible positions in Sabbath school work to put away all
egotism, all self-confidence, and pride of opinion; if a message comes that you do not understand, take pains that you may hear the reasons the messenger may give, comparing scripture with scripture, that you may know whether or not it is sustained by the word of God. If you believe that the positions taken have not the word of God for their foundation, if the position you hold on the subject cannot be controverted, then produce your strong reasons; for your position will not be shaken by coming in contact with error. There is no virtue or manliness in keeping up a continual warfare in the dark, closing your eyes lest you may see, closing your ears lest you may hear, hardening your heart in ignorance and unbelief lest you may have to humble yourselves and acknowledge that you have received light on some points of truth. {CSW 28.2}
To hold yourselves aloof from an investigation of truth is not the way to carry out the Saviour's injunction to "search the Scriptures." Is it digging for hidden treasures to call the results of some one's labor a mass of rubbish, and make no critical examination to see whether or not there are precious jewels of truth in the collection of thought which you condemn? Will those who have almost everything to learn keep themselves away from every meeting where there is an opportunity to investigate the messages that come to the people, simply because they imagine the views held by the teachers of the truth may be out of harmony with what they have
conceived as truth? Thus it was that the Jews did in the days of Christ, and we are warned not to do as they did, and be led to choose darkness rather than light, because there was in them an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God. No one of those who imagine that they know it all is too old or too intelligent to learn from the humblest of the messengers of the living God.--TSS 62-66. {CSW 29.1}

The Teacher to Be a Learner

"Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes." Those who would become the educators of the youth and children must learn much, very much, both in precept and experience, in order that they may be successful laborers for God. They must grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, attaining unto the measure of the stature of Christ. Growth in grace is a testimony to the fact that you are abiding in Christ as the branch is abiding in the vine. If you abide in Him, you will have power to discern spiritual truth, for spiritual things are spiritually discerned. {CSW 30.1}
"I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one." God calls upon the young men and young women to make the most of their entrusted ability. He would have you cultivate
habits of industry, habits of study, that you may improve the talents He has given you. God will accept your service, and the improvement of your talents, but He cannot look with approval upon half-hearted, halfway work. Every branch of God's work calls for the exercise of the highest ability; it demands that you shall bring into requisition every available help, that you shall direct your noblest impulses to the propagation of the truth. The exalted, sacred character of the work requires the enlistment of the highest intellectual and spiritual powers, that it may be properly represented before those who sit in darkness and in the shadow of death. {CSW 30.2}
If you are called to be a teacher in any branch of the work of God, you are called also to be a learner in the school of Christ. If you take upon you the sacred responsibility of teaching others, you take upon you the duty of going to the bottom of every subject you seek to teach. If you present a subject from the word of God to your pupils in the Sabbath school, you should make the reasons for your faith so plain that your scholars shall be convinced of its truth. You should diligently search and compare the evidences of the word of God on messages that He sends to the church, that you may know what is truth, and be able to direct those who look to you into the way of righteousness. {CSW 31.1}

To Listen With Candor

When asked to hear the reasons of a doctrine that you do not understand, do not condemn the message
until you have given it a thorough investigation, and know from the word of God that it is not tenable. "


Take Care



Thank you for your words.  :D

Hey @Sarah, I know this been a while since you last posted this thoughts.  Has anything changed  since you last post this?  Now we are in 2019 and I was wondering if you have the same thoughts as when you posted this.

Well now the moderator is not in but the rods should be flushed out; it a cancer, a poison from satan

Hello Sir James,


"Come now, and let us reason together{for good not for bad}, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." Isaiah 1:18.(bold emphasis, braces added)



    Davidians are Seventh-day Adventists cast out of the Seventh-day Adventist church for three main reasons: (1) They believe and teach from the Bible all of the doctrines of the church.  (2) They also believe and teach all of its doctrines from the Spirit of prophecy Testimonies (Rev. 19:10) by their prophetess--Sis. Ellen G. White.  (3) And especially are they cast out for believing and teaching her prediction that Elijah the prophet (T.M. 475) was to come to their church sometime after 1890.

   The name of this prophet was Victor Tasho Houteff, a member of the Seventh-day Adventist church in Los Angeles, California.  He began to teach in 1929 and was identified as Elijah by the teachings in his litera-  ture, which he entitled, The Shepherd's Rod.   In the year 1935 he moved to Waco, Texas, named his headquarters Mt. Carmel Center, and gave the name Davidian to all those who believed in his teachings about God's soon-coming kingdom to be set up with antitypical David as king.   But he never attached the Davidian name with the word "Branch" in his SRod literature.  It was after he died in 1955 that his wife (Florence Houteff) sold old Mt. Carmel in 1957 and bought new Mt. Carmel near Waco  in Elk, Texas.   During that time Ben L. Roden (a Christian Jew)  began his Branch movement with a few Davidian followers, and they became known as "Branch Davidians."  He was not, however, a converted Christian, because he led them to keep the Jewish ceremonial laws; and this caused them to deny that  Jesus the sinless  Messah had come.  In 1959 Sis. Houteff called many Davidians to a solemn  assembly at her new Mt. Carmel  headquarters, but its purpose failed.  Then she began to liquidate new Mt. Carmel in 1961 to 1962, and Ben Roden finally  acquired it for his  Branch headquarters.

     Also in 1961 when some of the Shepherd's Rod Davidians knew that Sis. Houteff was closing down new Mt. Carmel Center, they reorganized and set up God's headquarters in Riverside, California.  But some rebels broke off and set up other headquarters; first in Missouri (Bashan Davidians), and in California (Wanda Blum Davidians), and in Canada (Gilead Davidians).  Later, the true Davidians were led by the SRod  message to move God's Headquarters eastward from Riverside to Salem, S.C. in 1970, which is also named Mt. Carmel Center, and where it  publishes all of Bro. Houteff's Shepherd's  Rod  literature  into one book.  In 1978 Ben Roden died and the Branch Davidians eventually found  themselves a new, but very sinful  messiah--David Koresh, who gained control of the new Mt. Carmel compound.  In 1981 the Jamaicans rebelled and broke away from the Shepherd's Rod Davidians at Salem Headquarters, and set up their  headquarters in New York (Jamaican Davidians no. 1).  Later, other Jamaicans rebelled, broke away  from the New York Jamaicans, and moved to Waco, Texas (Jamaican Davidians no. 2); but they are not Branch Davidians.  Then on Feb. 28, 1993 the ATF attacked David Koresh's new Mt. Carmel compound, and burned it down on April 19, 1993 along with 86 Branch Davidians.

     As for the true Davidians at Mt. Carmel Center in Salem, SC,  they continued to print all of the originial literature of their founder (Bro. Houteff).   Later, they not only compiled together this literature into two books, which they entitled THE SHEPHERD'S ROD SERIES and THE SYMBOLIC CODE SERIES; but they also  print his first  two books, THE SHEPHERD'S ROD (vols. 1, 2), and THE SCRIPTURAL INDEX of this literature.  And besides this, they also compiled certain subjects from The Shepherd's Rod  literature into  other books, which are entitled, THE FALL OF THE  PROTESTANT NATIONS,  AMERICA KING OF THE NORTH, and A DAVIDIAN TESTIMONY.



Praise you for speaking the truth and defending Br. Houteff.

Hi James


A bit of a mixture of truth and error in that statement there.





"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." 1 Thessalonians 5:21


We need to prove all things do not just say that you are 'wrong'. So that I may able to understand because the knowledge of the holy is understanding(Proverb 9:10) and do what is good. "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." James 4:17.



Sir, with all due respect, could you please explain to me the reason that this thread and most of your others are spent focusing on things that have nothing to do with Jesus, evangelism, witnessing, how we can grow in our own relationships with Jesus, and how to know the voice of God for ourselves?


I am concerned that people are more focused on whether or not they are "right" in their understanding of what will happen and the exact order that it will happen (outside of scripture) when Jesus comes, more than they are about spreading the GOSPEL of JESUS to the World--who, Jesus came and died for.  I would greatly appreciate your response to this.



hi sarah,


if you will notice on the discussion (thread), who are the shepherds rod started by alex, he shares his thoughts on the shepherds rod people, and one of the 1st comments was from adventist online.  the message i've been getting from administration, is that its okay for them to mingle with us, as long as they do not harm us or create a problem.  one person made a comment that if i continue to eat diary products, that i will not be saved.  Clark P. made a comment to that thread,  made it clear that eating diary products is not a sin.  i thanked Clark P. for sharing his thoughts on the diary products discussion.  its my understanding that the davidians are going through their 2nd childhood years  here on adventist online,  the 1st childhood years, which had their problems in waco texas, well you know the story. since adminsitration is basically not doing anything about the davidians being here in adventist online, well perhaps it would best to find out more about them and see if we could have a common ground with Jesus.  sarah, you stressed a point, in regards to me witnessing to the davidians and or the shepherds rod, and my other topics, that are directly or indirectly connected to salvation, diary products which are the things adventist eat and the meat products like chicken, beef and fish, something Jesus consumed when He was here on this earth. i also discussed about being a sinner, and isthere hope for us sinners, i believe i mentioned about women wearing lipstick and is it okay for our ladies to apply make-up in moderation, is it appropriate for women being ordained in our church, i even have a special group of people wanting to know more on how to play scrabble and learn how to get better in playing scrabble (leisure/hobby), i discussed about sister whites writings, are they equal to the bible, which deals with witnessing and evangelism indirectly by witnessing to the adventist people or the davidians that you can not place sister whites writings equal or above the bible.  how you can test sister whites writings to the bible but you can not test the bible to sister whites writings. and how the bible is the light and there is nothing equal to above our bible (Jesus).  i also discussed about perfection, is it possible to attain perfection here on earth, which i find difficult to achieve, but somehow, somewhere there are people here in adventist online who thinks you can achieve sinlessness, perfection here on earth as a human being, again indirectly connected to santification and or righteousness by faith, and what exactly is perfection in Jesus.  i also talked about walking on water, and how Jesus walked on water and is it possible for us to walk on water, in others words it it possible for us, to have a faith as strong as peter as peter walked on water believing in Jesus, later to sink showing his weakness and struggles by hesitating and not trusting in Christ. 


what makes adventist online unique is the, music, the blogs, the discussions, the friends you acquire and respond to, the recipes in learning how to cook better meals, the openness of discussing our church, our faith, our future of being adventist, our present truth, the many stories people want to share about their lives, their relationship with Jesus and their personal lives, prayers, etc.  I beleive this is how adventist online started, by starting off as being asingle site for the single adventist people, then later to include special prayers to our singles and later to become what it is now, a variety of just about everything, which makes adventist online colorful and very meaningful to adventist all over the world.


i hope you do not take it against me in having these discussions, witnessing to the davidians, shepherds rod people, and the sinners too, i hope i haven't offended you in any way, but to share things and to share Jesus, witness and to prepare for His soon return one day.  sarah in closing, i'd like if you could pray for me, talk to me and guide me as you are doing now, by counseling me and sharing to me, your thoughts in being a better individual in terms of being a sister to me,  and helping me to know the voice of God as He speaks to me thru the Holy Spirit. thank you sarah for sharing your comments on my other threads and discussion.


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