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In connection with Rom. 7:14–25 the question that must be answered is:
Who is the person described here?
Is he:
   a. An unconverted person, whether Paul himself before his conversion, or any other unregenerate individual, perhaps a Jew who has not embraced Christ?
   b. An immature believer?
   c. Paul himself, the believer, and by extension, the believer generally


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The answer in my humble opinion is "c".  Verse 22 says; "for I delight in the law" an unbeliever would not do this.  What unbeliever delights in the law? A worldly person delights in sin.  Paul is speaking of himself and in so doing speaking of all our natures as humans who have accepted the gospel of Jesus. We want to do right but end up doing wrong and then feel shame. Daily we must come before Christ and as for forgiveness, moment by moment we must walk with Him.  I feel that these words by Paul highlight the true gospel of righteousness by faith verses the false gospel of preached by many evangelicals, that says we have to wait until we die before God changes us.

Thus discussion has been going on in SDAism for over 25 years and has been the cause of splits and fights between different factions.
I also choose "c". The reason is in the conclusion of the chapter and the beginning of chapter 8. He shows the struggle that we go through until we learn to fully surrender to God and allow Him to work in us.

Paul was talking in third person about himself after he was baptised, but before he was converted.  That is why he delighted in the law of God according to the inward man.  But there was a struggle in obedience, when he was unconverted.  Until we reach Romans Chapter 8.  Then there is now no more condemnation for those who live not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.  By the time he wrote Romans 8 he had assurance and he was not practicing sins.

There is the lie of the devil that says we will not struggle with sins after Baptism and the name it claim it philosophy that states that Justification and Sanctification happen at the same time.  When in all actuality Justification is an instant transaction whereas Sanctification happens over a lifetime and we need both to be saved in the end.

"God's forgiveness is not merely a judicial act by which He sets us free from condemnation. It is not only forgiveness for sin, but reclaiming from sin. It is the outflow of redeeming love that transforms the heart. David had the true conception of forgiveness when he prayed, 'Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.' Psalm 51:10." (MB 114) God's forgiveness is declared, but it is more than that. It is reclaiming, transforming, and renewing. It is a clean heart created within us. This is not sanctification; it is part of forgiveness. Justification transforms at the same time it declares. Pardon is an inward transformation.

The first part of justification is to pardoned--forgiven of my sins. The second part of justification -is to be transformed in the new birth experience. Justification is both declarative and experiential. The most current understanding of justification is that it is the first part only. The second part--new birth--is part of sanctification. This means that we can be justified and saved before the new birth happens. And even if the new birth experience is not changing my life as fully as it should, I am still justified and saved. This unbiblical separation between declaring righteous and making righteous is doing more than any other teaching to encourage Christians to tolerate sin in their lives, since they believe that they are justified even when open, unforgiven sin is active in their lives.

Brother Jason...

Please use the bible in order for us to believe your theological jargon.

yes we can be saved at 7 years of age because we believe under our parents.  But this does not mean that we don't eventually need a deep relationship with the Lord ourselves.

correction it was first person because of the use of the word "I..."

"been the cause of splits and fights between different factions."

Why? It seems like a good study, not something to cause division.  It is note worthy to me that there seems to be much preaching on this subjects similar to this.

The question the disputes revolved around was whether the man of Romans 7 is a converted man or not?

For one side of the dispute the issue really seemed to be that he was unconverted because he was still falling to sin which thereby meant he was failing in perfection. There was also an undercurrent of a potential developing Perfectionism movement which didn't help to clarify the issue.

On the other side there were those saying that he was a converted man who was struggling with sin. Whilst accepting that perfection in Christ is the goal there was concern over the definition of perfection that was being used.

I don't recall all the details as it was over 20-25 years ago. At that time I was between the two parties and used as a go-between by the leaders of the time. What struck me was that the discussion often centred on a misunderstanding of the other side's position.

To me the key verse is often left out, as in this thread. Romans 7:26 - 8:1 (onward) brings the solution to the problem - the surrender of self to Christ and particularly to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Interestingly we see again how the Three Persons of the Godhead are involved in our salvation and how God makes every provision for salvation.

There is a lot of comfort in this passage for all of us struggling with sin instead of leaving it at the foot of the cross. 

I find it all too easy to identify with the man of Rom.7:1-25.

I strive to be able to give the testimony of Rom.7:26-Rom.8

Thank you for the clarification. 

"It is not enough to perceive the loving-kindness of God, to see the benevolence, the fatherly tenderness, of His character. It is not enough to discern the wisdom and justice of His law, to see that it is founded upon the eternal principle of love. Paul the apostle saw all this when he exclaimed, "I consent unto the law that it is good." "The law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good." But he added, in the bitterness of his soul-anguish and despair, "I am carnal, sold under sin." Romans 7:16, 12, 14. He longed for the purity, the righteousness, to which in himself he was powerless to attain, and cried out, "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from this body of death?" Romans 7:24, margin. Such is the cry that has gone up from burdened hearts in all lands and in all ages. To all, there is but one answer, "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." John 1:29. {SC 19.1}


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