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Not trying to cause a war here, and if your intention is to hurt/humiliate anyone responding to this post please save all of us the trouble and don't post!. A friend and I were talking and honestly I don't know if there is biblical basis for us not dancing. So, what can you tell me on the subject, why do we as SDA's not dance?

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I am also looking at principles and COI mode of worship cannot be equated with NEW T mode of worship. And if we are in the antitypical day of atonement was that mean? The day of atonement was a sabbath day, so how are you going to apply that. I am a bit confused as to your application that we are in the antitypical day of atonement. You would need to break it down for me.
I'm not talking about the mode, I'm talking about the principle. The principles of worship do not change.

Now, as far as the Day of Atonement goes, you said, "And if we are in the antitypical day of atonement was that mean?" You will have to clarify that question I'm afraid. I'm assuming that you understand and agree with the concept of the antitypical Day of Atonement but I can't really answer the question without asking your view on that as it either makes my response a lot easier or a lot harder :-)

I'm not sure if I am prepared to go too deeply into it tonight as I have an early start tomorrow - plus I don't want to muddy the thread by potentially diverting off to another subject.

So, if I can approach it briefly, without waiting for your answer, the typical Day of Atonement was a more solemn day than all the others as it was the time when sin was "disposed of" and if your sin wasn't included in the disposal then you were outside the camp until the next Day of Atonement a year later. This is why, as SDAs, we eschew jewelry and adornment of dress and it should also colour to an extent the way that we worship. Certainly, I would suggest that it is another big reason for not dancing at this time.
Christ is now in the Most Holy compartment in the heavenly sanctuary finishing the work of atonement for the guilty race.
Michael, I'm just telling the history. Qotb stated himself what it was that triggered his disgust with the USA and specifically mentioned the high school dance. If you think that's tenuous, up to you. Apparently Qotb had the same problem with inappropriate body contact that you do, so it seems to me that you are actually in agreement.

Regarding the dance subject, Evelyn asked the question and that's what this forum is all about. Discussing topics relevant to Seventh-day Adventists. What is minor in one person's mind may be major in another's. That's the beauty of us all being different. I don't see any hushed tones or anyone equating dancing with murder or rape. Of course, I think it is fairly safe to assume that even the most liberal SDA is still against murder and rape.

So, it may be irrelevant to you but to Evelyn and her friend it obviously is not so I see no reason not to share our thoughts on the subject. If you would prefer to focus your concern and moral indignation on drug and alcohol abuse, child rape, poverty, racism and gang violence then this thread probably won't interest you very much.
Cool down my Dear
"I still think it is a stretch John."

It's very simple, Michael, just read Qotb's writings, particularly "Milestones". As I said, Qotb states himself exactly what affected his judgement. It is then simple to track how his theory of "jahillaya" is taken up by the Muslim Brotherhood, Islamic Jihad and the World Islamic Front and from there Ayman Zawahiri (who had been deeply affected by the death of Qotb) mentors Osama bin Laden. Even today's suicide bombers read "Milestones". We just finished a terrorist case yesterday and guess which book was in the list of exhibits. Anyway, as I said, up to you.

Apart from that, I sincerely hope that your expectations of this thread will not be realised. I prefer to think that we will continue as we have been, having an interesting discussion about what we believe and why. No doubt *if* you see someone going overboard in this thread you will be able to counter their argument but please don't always assume the negative.

Your last paragraph might have been better posted in the relevant thread, thereby allowing those you are accusing to respond to your assessment. You are obviously upset by that thread so why not voice your concerns there rather than having a rant in this thread.
As yes, the tithe dollars... North American domination of the church and, just like the world, all bow down to the mighty dollar. I guess in some areas of the church that's what it is all about. 10% of the membership trying to control the other 90% with their tithe dollars. I suspect that other areas of the world are not so money-minded when it comes to their beliefs.

Anyway, if you don't want to participate in that thread why come into this thread and moan about it?
You are right Michael. The recent LLU health study of SDAs (97,000 of them) determined that only 4% of SDAs are vegan.
Michael said, "But the bottom line is that meat-eaters far outnumber the vegetarians and vegans in the church."

Interesting, I haven't seen any statistics on that. What are the percentage differences? I'm not sure it's a question of "majority rules" and unless we're drawing up battle lines for a fist-fight I can't see what difference it makes.

I'm certainly not inviting you to dance, Michael :-) Ok, not a moan, just an emotion-charged observation. No problem.

I will try not to cling to any misconceptions but, as you know, it's a common afflication and often a hard one to overcome. If only we could reflect more of the charitable love that Christ had for others.

Ok, back to dancing... (not with you, Michael, it's not an invitation)...
N Him said, "You are right Michael. The recent LLU health study of SDAs (97,000 of them) determined that only 4% of SDAs are vegan."

What about vegetarians, what percentage were they?
The majority is always right?

“In every age, God has called his servants to lift up their voices against the prevailing errors and sins of the multitude. Noah was called to stand alone to warn the antediluvian world. Moses and Aaron were alone against king and princes, magicians and wise men, and the multitudes of Egypt. Elijah was alone when he testified against an apostate king and a backsliding people. Daniel and his fellows stood alone against the decrees of mighty monarchs. The majority are usually to be found on the side of error and falsehood. The fact that doctors of divinity have the world on their side does not prove them to be on the side of truth and of God. The wide gate and the broad road attract the multitudes, while the strait gate and the narrow way are sought only by the few.” – Ellen G. White, The Spirit of Prophecy, Volume Four, page 214.
I agree with JohnB and you Michael as well that we as a society face many decadent moral; issues that Islam certainly finds issue with. I will stand on what I posted in a different thread about the WTC disaster, while at the same time agreeing with you both, but also submitting the WTC tragedy has deeper implications.Little time of trouble comes to mind. The WTC was a monument to man's overriding greed and corruption. I believe God allowed this to send the USA a strong message and warning, and to send Christians a warning that the end is near.

The world has certainly taken notice of this event with different perspectives across the board. I still believe EGW's prophecy is 100% accurate despite what the White Estate says. Here is the text immediately preceding the part describing her vision of tall buildings in NYC that burned as if made of pitch.

The Last Crisis

We are living in the time of the end. The fast-fulfilling signs of the times declare that the coming of Christ is near at hand. The days in which we live are solemn and important. The Spirit of God is gradually but surely being withdrawn from the earth. Plagues and judgments are already falling upon the despisers of the grace of God. The calamities by land and sea, the unsettled state of society, the alarms of war, are portentous. They forecast approaching events of the greatest magnitude. {9T 11.1}
The agencies of evil are combining their forces and consolidating. They are strengthening for the last great crisis. Great changes are soon to take place in our world, and the final movements will be rapid ones. {9T 11.2}
The condition of things in the world shows that troublous times are right upon us. The daily papers are full of indications of a terrible conflict in the near future. Bold robberies are of frequent occurrence. Strikes are common. Thefts and murders are committed on every hand. Men possessed of demons are taking the lives of men, women, and little children. Men have become infatuated with vice, and every species of evil prevails. {9T 11.3}
The enemy has succeeded in perverting justice and in filling men's hearts with the desire for selfish gain.
"Justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter." Isaiah 59:14. In the great cities there are multitudes living in poverty and wretchedness, well-nigh destitute of food, shelter, and clothing; while in the same cities are those who have more than heart could wish, who live luxuriously, spending their money on richly furnished houses, on personal adornment, or worse still, upon the gratification of sensual appetites, upon liquor, tobacco, and other things that destroy the powers of the brain, unbalance the mind, and debase the soul. The cries of starving humanity are coming up before God, while by every species of oppression and extortion men are piling up colossal fortunes. {9T 11.4}
On one occasion, when in New York City, I was in the night season called upon to behold buildings rising story after story toward heaven. These buildings were warranted to be fireproof, and they were erected to glorify their owners and builders. Higher and still higher these buildings rose, and in them the most costly material was used. Those to whom these buildings belonged were not asking themselves: "How can we best glorify God?" The Lord was not in their thoughts. {9T 12.1}


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