Should women preach, become elders, pastors, leaders?
I have stated in other threads that I am allowing the Biblical Research Committee (who has been charged with that very task) to determine:
1. Whether ordination is Biblical
2. Whether men or women should be ordained.
That has not changed.
As I am not trying to "convince", but rather state MY CONVICTIONS based on scripture. However, I will post a link to an article that is rather compelling on the issue:
While I have been given a quote from Tyrone that has compelled me to study the subject further, before setting in stone my stance on female pastors. However I fail to see how Tyrone's response was not founded in scripture, nor was it disrespectful in any way. So why are you yelling at him?
I just went back over my posts and was not "yelling" at all. I bolded a word for emphasis, put the word NOT, and MY CONVICTIONS in all caps for emphasis (both once), and I always emphasis LORD--and often GOD.
So how are you concluding I am yelling--especially when he has done similar in his posts to me? I don't get it.
Ok you didn't realize what you did, but for several years now USING ALL CAPS LIKE THIS has been considered yelling. This is bolding. There are even websites that prohibit doing it, because of this, and in the 90's the new net language perimeters were set and publicized on most news networks..
No worries though.. If you didn't know you didn't know. :0)
Refreshing to see you apologising for your behaviour, teresa. You've just gone up a notch in my estimation.
She was not apologizing for her self, but being sarcastic about the fact that I thought Sarah meant to yell...
Huh... thought it wouldn't be long before you changed your tune.
If the church hadn't gone down the tax-break route of introducing "commissioning" of women then there would be no dispute. Following on from the premise of the article, the debate is not over what is Biblically right it is over power. Those who try and insist that there is a Biblical mandate for the ordination of women pastors will have to admit that there is no such mandate and the argument revolves around secular "equality" issues.
Hmm... so when God required a male priesthood we should follow His lead rather than trying to tell Him that He got it wrong. Sounds right to me.
I agree with you, teresa, you are exactly right - it is God who decides these things and it is not up to us to force a change in God's order of things - especially when we have no mandate.
God ordained Ellen White - not men. In as much as she didn't need to have men's hands laid on her in ordination why should anyone else require something that was not required for God's messenger? I hadn't realised before that those who fight for the ordination of women pastors are fighting to exalt those women above God's messenger. Perhaps those that fight for WO should realise that and stop telling God that His way is wrong. This whole issue seems to revolve around the raising up of "self" rather than reflecting the meek and lowly Jesus and as such the issue is anathema to the Gospel.
Just like the fallen churches - trying to do it man's way; just like the disciples - fighting for "position".
Thank you for sharing some of your own study regarding this issue.
Teresa says: appears not to be any proof then regarding men and ordination.
Tyrone replies: Nor was it offered as such. I was remarking to Sarah that those were the only two places where I found mention of anything close to laying on of hands and that the word man was used in both instances. It is not proof regarding men and ordination and we are in agreement concerning this point.
According to the Strong's Concordance - man in these verses is from the Greek word may-dice number 3367 and includes the irregular feminine may-dem-ee-ah.
I have to get ready for work so I'll have to take this up later.
Here's a question to ponder.
Why are there no examples in the Bible or Spirit of prophecy of women being ordained by the laying on of hands to become pastors or elders ?
Thank you for allowing my reply
I see that you have referenced my words in order to explain what they mean to you instead of accepting my explanation of my own words. Why ?
Why do you want my words to Sarah to mean something else or the intent to be understood your way ?
The dialogue between Sarah and I has a context. The context is my answer to the original question asked by ANDREW K GITHINJI which started this discussion. My answer was that according to the Bible and the Spirit of prophecy women can and should preach, become pastors and be leaders.
My question flowed from my answer. If God has clearly indicated in the Bible and Spirit of prophecy that women can preach, be pastors and leaders without being ordained by the laying of hands, why is anyone insisting that they must be ordained by the laying on of hands ?
Why create a requirement when God Himself has not even made it necessary ?
Here is where Sarah's statement and my reply comes in:
Sarah said: The Bible directly calls for the laying of hands on those that are called to service for the LORD.
When I read this statement that Sarah made, I thought it was incorrect because the Bible does not actually call directly for the laying on of hands. To prove it to Sarah, I cited the two verses that were the closest to mentioning the laying on of hands for service. Even these verses don't make a direct call as Sarah suggested. My reply to her was not to prove that men are to be ordained by the laying on of hands. I pointed out that the verses mention man and men but that was all. I did not say that this was proof. My reply to her was addressing the inaccuracy of her statement that the Bible makes a direct call for laying on of hands when in actuality it does not.
Hence my statement to Sarah:
Tyrone replies: Actually the only verses that address the laying on of hands for ordination to the ministry refer to men and are as follows:
Lay hands suddenly on no MAN, neither be partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure. (1 Timothy 5:22)
Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven MEN of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business...Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them. (See Acts 6:3-6)
If you want to try and change the meaning of what I said or misrepresent the intent, you are free to do so but it is not Christlike to do so.
I ask the questions again.
Why are there no examples in the Bible and the Spirit of prophecy of women being ordained by the laying on of hands in order to preach, to be pastors or to be leaders ?
Why are some trying to insist that women be ordained by the laying on of hands when God Himself has not required it for them to preach, to be pastors or to be leaders ?
Didn't the Pharisees and Sadduccees add instructions and requirements to God's commands making obedience to God seem like a burden ?
Thank you for my reply
I'm going to continue to pray for you sis.
Something doesn't appear quite right with your responses to direct questions and statements. Is everything ok ? Are you alright ?
If you want to chat just connect. That way you are not posting replies to me when I am least likely to respond immediately.
I have seen your replies and comments in several other discussions and have believed you to be very intelligent. That is why this uncharacteristic immaturity makes me think that this is not you and that something is wrong. I don't know you well enough to say that this is how you normally are but I hope it is not.
I hope all is well.
Heavenly Father, please bless my sister in Christ right now with whatever it is that she needs in order for her to know that she is accepted in the Beloved; that she is of more value than many sparrows. Bless her with your presence and help all of us to choose to be under the influence of the Holy Spirit and the holy angels. In Jesus' name. Amen.