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Should women preach, become elders, pastors, leaders?

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@Teresa

Hi Teresa.

I'm going to continue to pray for you sis. 

Something doesn't appear quite right with your responses to direct questions and statements. Is everything ok ? Are you alright ? 

If you want to chat just connect. That way you are not posting replies to me when I am least likely to respond immediately.

I have seen your replies and comments in several other discussions and have believed you to be very intelligent. That is why this uncharacteristic immaturity makes me think that this is not you and that something is wrong.

I hope all is well.

Heavenly Father, please bless my sister in Christ right now with whatever it is that she needs in order for her to know that she is accepted in the Beloved; that she is of more value than many sparrows. Bless her with your presence and help all of us to choose to be under the influence of the Holy Spirit and the holy angels. In Jesus' name. Amen.

...........................................

 

o GOD BLESS U!

AMEN!

i have been getting to know TERESA for many months now

i have seen her change from glory to glory

we all need prayers

 

i hope u get to know TERESA the way i have and more!

and i hope u r alright too

 

@Tyrone / MFG

Amen.

My family and I have been praying for our sister Teresa for some time now..

MFG is right when he says there has been a change in her.. I have previously had many intelligent and civil conversations with her here, but not for the past month or so... We should all continue to pray.

Also to Teresa, as I told you when this happened in the forum on Bible translations; we don't have to agree on everything, I still love you. :0) and know our God always will.

Tyrone

 

Well stated.

 

Ray

Very interesting.  Most discussions for women's ordination as Elders and Pastors seem bent on the argument around hierarchy, ie. there should not be...  Tell us good people, in Heaven there is a hierarchy and God, right from the beginning instituted one between a man and woman.  Why are we busy trying to undo that?  For me, that is a war against what God has instituted and winning it is not possible.

Scobs

 

While I agree with what you posted, as far as you went, the situation is really much worse for those who argue for women and men who do not qualify, to be ordained.  This is brought out in several places in the Bible.  The first being:

    "Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?" Romans 6:16 (ESV) 

When anyone follows the directives of this world, when they are in conflict with what God has established, then they become slaves of Satan. 

When feminist push for "equality" they are echoing the same ideas that caused Satan to be thrown out of heaven.  He wanted equality, however, that was impossible.  He was a created being, God was divine, so there was not possible way for him to be equal with God.

Likewise when women seek to be "equal" with men, they are in the very approach they are using, admitting that they percieve men to be "higher" then they are.  If not, why would they want to be "equal?"  They certainly would not be seeking to step down to be equal, would they?

However, I do not see this as men being "higher."  I see men and women being on the same level.  We are, without Jesus, lost, sentenced to death and without hope of salvation. 

This contention for equality that feminist have launched, both in the church and out, is like two condemned criminals on death row fighting about who is the greatest and demanding that they be treated as equal.  Pure nonesense. 

Jesus in Matthew  says this:

    "You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."  Matthew 5:48 (ESV) 

Then James tells us how to be perfect. 

    "Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds,  [3] for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness.  [4] And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing."  James 1:2-4 (ESV) 

The way we become perfect, as God defines being perfect, is when tests and trials come, yes the temptation to be equal, the temped one is to have faith/trust in God.  When we get into the habit/endurance  of trusting God, then we are perfect.  Demanding what is percieved by the world to be "equality" is showing blantant distrust in God's plan.  As such, we are demonstrating that we are not perfect and will never be part of the family of God in heaven.  For no one who does not submit to God's arrangement will be there.  

For: 

    "What do you plot against the Lord?
        He will make a complete end; trouble will not rise up a second time."  Nahum 1:9 (ESV) 

If you check the Hebrew word used here that "trouble" is translated from, it is the word:

tsarah, Hebrew 6869, Strong’s

You will find that it literally means: "female rival."  A very accurate description.  For the issue of ordination is not a gender issue at all.  It is a submission issue.  Feminist have created the gender issue, seeking for something that it is impossible for them to have, just as Satan did in Heaven.  A woman can no more serve where God has assigned a man to serve, then a man can serve where God has assigned a woman to serve.  God's will must be supreme for things to run smoothly.  For God's way is perfect, and any change in that plan would make it flawed.  Nor has God given women the wisdom or right to correct what they beleive to be His mistake.

Note what else inspiration has to say. 

    "In the final execution of the judgment it will be seen that no cause for sin exists. When the Judge of all the earth shall demand of Satan, "Why hast thou rebelled against Me, and robbed Me of the subjects of My kingdom?" the originator of evil can render no excuse. Every mouth will be stopped, and all the hosts of rebellion will be speechless. . . . The whole universe will have become witnesses to the nature and results of sin. And its utter extermination, which in the beginning would have brought fear to angels and dishonor to God, will now vindicate His love and establish His honor before the universe. . . . Never will evil again be manifest. Says the Word of God, "Affliction shall not rise up the second time." Nahum 1:9. . . . A tested and proved creation will never again be turned from allegiance to Him whose character has been fully manifested before them.  {FLB 71.3}  
     He who chooses a course of disobedience to God's law is deciding his future destiny; he is sowing to the flesh, earning the wages of sin, even eternal destruction, the opposite of life eternal. Submission to God and obedience to His holy law bring the sure result. "This is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3.  {FLB 71.4}

And again:

     "God has given us probationary time in order that it may be made manifest whether we will be loyal, obedient children, rendering obedience to his commandments, his statutes, and his laws, or whether we will persist in following a course of disobedience, and prove ourselves unworthy of eternal life. Those who will be doers of the words of Christ will have their names written in the Lamb's book of life; but those who will not obey God's law after light has come to them from the holy Scriptures, will be written among those whose fate is to perish. For those who choose to follow the traditions of men, and are willing to be turned from the truth of God unto fables, and who train themselves to walk away from the path of God's commandments, and will not listen to the law of God, but take up with the vain excuses devised by man to continue in disobedience, would not listen to the voice of God in the heavenly courts, and would bring rebellion a second time into heaven. When the Father speaks, they hear him not; but their ears are open to hear the suggestions of the enemy of God and man."  {RH, October 9, 1894 par. 9} 

And again:  

   "God will not acknowledge as His shepherds those who speak smooth things.--In this fearful time, just before Christ is to come the second time, God's faithful preachers will have to bear a still more pointed testimony than was borne by John the Baptist. A responsible, important work is before them; and those who speak smooth things, God will not acknowledge as His shepherds. A fearful woe is upon them."--1T 321. {PaM 210.2}

The feminist ideas of equality are appealing to the rebellious heart.  Those who want to court the favor of the unconverted women will join in that chorus.  But, that chorus is singing the song of rebellion, not the song of Moses and the Lamb. 

For Jesus gave us this example:

"I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me."  JOH 5:30 NASB

Since not one word in the Bible commands, instructs or even suggests that women be installed into leadership positions by being set apart by the church or humans, no matter by what process, those who advocate or accept such positions are false prophets and are excluded from heaven. 

This is far beyound any gender issue.  It is a submission to God issue and applies to both genders equally.  Only when it is seen in its proper light will it be forever settled in the minds of a true Christian.  Those who are not converted will still clamor for that which God has not initiated by all kinds of specious arguments.  Just like many we have seen here on this forum.

 

Maranatha :)
Ray

 
 


 

 

I think that the women have a special ministry. This discussion about equal rigths and stuff is a reflex of social movements of the world, like pofessional competition between the genders. We don't have to compete, we were made to work together, each one with their own special gifts of God. We all are children of God, we all have a special work to do. We all are going to the same place. Why waste time with competition while exists so many people to show Jesus? While exists so many sermons to do?

We all are the body, only one is the head: Jesus Christ.

Josue

You are right on target.  Women seeking to be ordained is like a steering wheel trying to be one of the tires that carries the car.  They are both round/humans, but that is about the end of the comparison. 

 

Maranatha :)
Ray

Good point Ray :)

teresa

 

A pastor friend of mine graduated with 5 doctor's degrees in subjects related to theology.  Biblical languages being one of them.  When I asked him about what I had found, he commented that that understanding was well known in the circles of those who specialize in Biblical language.  Then I called the local Jewish Rabbi and he confimed that what I had discovered was correct.

The pastor friend, also told me that when he was in the Seminary, there was a lady who was his classmate.  Her doctorial thesis was on this one Hebrew word, qadash.  She wrote a 450 page thesis on just this one word.  She had noted the understanding that I had found. 

It is not necessary to get human approval for what is clearly stated in the Bible.  This is a mockrey to God to check with other humans to see if God really meant what He wrote.  I do, from time to time, check linquistic details to see if I processed the information correctly.  But, when God says that the ordaining of anyone who will is sin, I do not need to ask Dr. Pipim or Doug Batchelor to see if they agree.  I have virtually as much education as they do and I have the tools to work with research, just as well as they do.  In fact, I suspect that I have done more research on this topic then either of them has done.  Also, Dr. C. Mervyn Maxwell and I, as personal friends, explored this both when I was at the Seminary and in the following years.  We were in total agreement on what was found. 

Our friendship was so close that just a matter of a few hours before he passed away, he called me long distance to tell me good bye.  He was indeed a dear friend and one I still miss.

When God says something, it is not for us to debate it, quibble about it or try to use other people's mistakes to justify our opinions.  If God says something is a sin, it is a sin, no matter if every theologian who has a doctors degree; lines up and says otherwise.  However, that is not the case on this subject.  Many who have walked this road ahead of the Adventist, have found out the problems that result from deviating from God's word will bring.  Adventist tend to be about 10 to 20 years behind the popular heresies that sweep through other churches.  Then we grab on to it and run with it as if it were something grand and new.

This happened with the charismatic movement.  It has happened with several other heresies that have swept through Adventism over the years.  In the case of Righteousness by Faith, the Lutherns and others understood the basics of RbF before we did.  However, after Jones and Waggoner, eventually we grew beyound what they had understood it to be.  If we were smart, we would learn from the mistakes of others who namet the name of Christ, rather then blindly apeing them.  That does not show a great deal of intelligence. 

But the faithful and true witness said that the last church would be blind and not able to see what is wrong with these things.  Jesus gave more warnings to the end time church about being deceived then any other warning.  Yet, many still blindly blunder off after apostate protestantism and do not realize that they are being led by false prophets, teachers, apostles and pastors we have been warned about. 

We are at the end of time.  It is time to wake out of sleep and give  up on these heresies Satan has been so successful with over the centureis and return to God and follow His way.

 

Maranatha :)
Ray

even though GOD'S word DONT CHANGE

OUR CAPACITY and our society changes

HE picked A WOMAN for a good reason

OUR CAPACITY AND SOCIETY  WAS and is changing

PRAISE GOD

He takes us where we are at!

l

@Teresa

"Turn your eyes upon Jesus" Every morning.. It is sad to see such a beautiful hymn used to reflect an attitude that that is not Christ like.. God said "let us reason together" not " lets walk away from each other, singing paisley when we hear something we don't like..

Please sister listen to the cloud of witnesses on this forum that have at many points commented about your attitude and adjust it, because it prophets no one, especially you..

......

amen come to reason together

TERESA as i have come to know her has shown me reasoning and connection

maybe there is no connection

withKristina Pauly

 and therefore the feeling is being alone

and she is singing to GOD solo

just my thoughts

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