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Let's start with #2, "The Trinity"

"Christ is one with the father, but Christ and God are two distinct personages” (RH June 1, 1905)

“The Scriptures clearly indicate the relation between God and Christ, and they bring to view as clearly the personality and individuality of eachellen white pillars[Hebrews 1:1-5 quoted.] God is the Father of Christ; Christ is the Son of God. To Christ has been given an exalted position. He has been made equal with the Father. All the counsels of God are opened to His Son.” (Ellen White, Testimonies for the Church, vol. 8, page 268)

“The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty, yet Christ and the Father are one.” (Ellen White SDA Bible Commentary, vol.5 p.1129)

“Here we might mention the Trinity, which does away the personality of God, and of his Son Jesus Christ”(James White, December 11, 1855, james white pillarsReview & Herald, vol. 7, no. 11, page 85, par. 16)

“The doctrine of the Trinity which was established in the church by the council of Nice, A. D. 325. This doctrine JN Andrews pillarsdestroys the personality of God, and his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. The infamous, measures by which it was forced upon the church which appear upon the pages of ecclesiastical history might well cause every believer in that doctrine to blush.” (J. N. Andrews, March 6, 1855, Review & Herald, vol. 6, no. 24, page 185)

1 Corinthians 8:6  But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

"Most of the founders of Seventh-day Adventism would not be able to join the church today if they had to subscribe to the denomination's Fundamental Beliefs. More specifically, most would not be able to agree to belief number 2, which deals with the doctrine of the Trinity." George Knight, Ministry, October 1993, p. 10.

"Adventist beliefs have changed over the years under the impact of 'present truth'. Most startling is the teaching regarding Jesus Christ, our Saviour and Lord…the Trinitarian understanding of God, now part of our fundamental beliefs, was not generally held by the early Adventsists." William G. Johnsson, Adventist Review, Jan 6, 1994, p. 10.

The 1874 statements, by Uriah Smith, published in the June 4 Signs of the Times:

1. That there is one God, a personal, spiritual Being, the Creator of all things, omnipotent, omniscient, and eternal; infinite in wisdom, holiness, justice, goodness, truth and mercy; unchangeable, and everywhere present by His representative, the Holy Spirit. Psalm 139:7. [Where can I go from Thy spirit? or where can I flee from Thy presence?]

2. That there is one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Eternal Father, the One by whom God created all things, and by whom they do consist…"

But, the 28 fundamentals say:

2. The Trinity
There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three coeternal
PersonsGod is immortal, all-powerful, all-knowing, above all, and ever
present. He is infinite and beyond human comprehension, yet known
through His self-revelation. He is forever worthy of worship, adoration, and
service by the whole creation. (Deut. 6:4; Matt. 28:19; 2 Cor. 13:14;
Eph. 4:4-6; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Tim. 1:17; Rev. 14:7.)

"He", as in the unity of all 3." Weird.  I don't want to agree with that.  They will deny you membership if you don't?  I'd like to see them try and take my membership again.  I believe God will not let them enforce this baleful church legislation.

   "The revelation of Himself that God has given in His Word is for our study. This we may seek to understand. But beyond this we are not to penetrate. . . . None are to indulge in speculation regarding His nature. Here silence is eloquence. The Omniscient One is above discussion." The Faith I Live By p. 40.

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There are some mysteries we humans will never understand here on this earth like the mystery of iniquity, the mystery of the incarnation, Trinity mystery; but other mysteries are clearly revealed to us and our children.

"'God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have everlasting life.' God’s love for the world was not manifest because He sent His Son, but because He loved the world He sent His Son into the world that divinity clothed with humanity might touch humanity, while divinity lay hold of infinity. Though sin had produced a gulf between man and his God, divine benevolence provided a plan to bridge that gulf. And what material did He use? ***A part of Himself.*** The brightness of the Father’s glory came to a world all seared and marred with the curse, and in His own divine character, in His own divine body, bridged the gulf and opened a channel of communication between God and man. The windows of heaven were opened, and the showers of heavenly grace in healing streams came to our benighted world. O what love, what matchless, inexpressible love!" {Lt36a-1890} 

Peace to you Reasoning,

You said,

….the mystery of how ONE GOD is 3 persons or beings is something we can’t understand, the knowledge of that inner working on how 1 is 3 and 3 is 1 is unknown.

MY question is do you go around telling people God is a mystery? How can you believe in something that is mysterious?  I don’t believe that God  want us to worship Him in that way.

31So He said to the Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, you are truly My disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

You need to set yourself free from this mystery and know the truth. You should not be concerned with what Jason told me, you should consider what Jesus have said.

No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you.

If the Spirit was another God person, Jesus would have said so.

…all that I have heard from my Father and the Spirit I have made known to you.  He didn’t say so because the Spirit is God (the Father and the Word) very presence; the Spirt of God.

Acts 7:54 Now when they heard these things they were enraged, and they ground their teeth at him. 55 But he, full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56 And he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”

The Holy Spirit is the very presences and power of the Godhead just as Jesus have made known.

Jesus answered and said to him, If any one love me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our abode with him.

The mystery is in your mind because you refuse to believe the Word of God

Gene said: "If the Spirit was another God person, Jesus would have said. …all that I have heard from my Father and the Spirit I have made known to you.  He didn’t say so because the Spirit is God (the Father and the Word) very presence; the Spirt of God."

The bible never said this because this is not the order of things, there is a chain of command: The Father 'speaks' to the Son who then 'speaks' to the Holy Spirit then the Spirit 'speaks' to the angels then the angels to the prophets and so on,  not Father and Spirit to Son; the Son is Second in 'Command' yet They are all equal. 

Revelation 1: The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Verse 4  John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

who is Him who is, was, and is to come and who is the seven Spirits before the Father's throne? We see here the Father and the Holy Spirit in the verse,  then Jesus, the Second person of the Trinity, is mentioned last in verse 5, not because He is last, but because many things had to be said about Him. 

Peace

Gene wrote: "MY question is do you go around telling people God is a mystery? How can you believe in something that is mysterious?  I don’t believe that God  want us to worship Him in that way."

 No, but I do tell people like yourself there are mysteries that we can't understand. Take this discussion that you are trying to stir of track, how is it that The ONE and true living GOD can be 3 persons/beings at the same time?

 We know it's true,  but how can 1 be 3 and 3 be 1 at the same time? That right there is a mystery of GOD we can't understand. Do you understand?

 

Gene wrote: "You need to set yourself free from this mystery and know the truth. You should not be concerned with what Jason told me, you should consider what Jesus have said."

  Gene, this is a discussion thread, so I'm concern with what is written and since Jason is involved in this discussion, what he writes matters, whether right or wrong. We agree on how you are taking the mystery of the incarnation, how The ONE and true living GOD be 3 beings and turning it into mysteries GOD has revealed. So your talking about mysteries revealed, we're talking mysteries that aren't revealed to us.

  What has been revealed is that the Holy Spirit is a person or being, just like The Father & Christ is, that's what this discussion is about at this moment. Because there seems to be a downgrading of the Holy Spirit, people are saying He is not a being/person, check out Pro.101 and Ricky's post.

 I don't know the nature of the Holy Spirit, however I do know He is a person/being, more specific the 3rd person of the GODhead. People are saying no, He(the Holy Spirit) is not a being like the Father & Christ.

 Pro. 101 wrote: "I have given enough evidence and have pages of quotes showing that there is a Father and a Son alone.  The Son came as an Angel, as an invisible Spirit and as a man and now comes again in His invisible form working in us.

 Pro. 101 wrote: "The following shows that after the Father and the Son, created beings are next in honor. There are only 2 BEINGS that are divine. We see from inspiration that a created being, BEFORE and AFTER the fall, is next in honour to the Son. There is no 3 rd God being but only a 3rd person in the Heavenly Trio. This 3rd person Is, as we shall see, none other than the omnipresence of the Son of God."

  There's been failed attempts saying the 3rd Person is not a Holy being...  The Holy Spirit is the 3rd Person of the GODhead or in other words the 3rd being of the GODhead.

 Gene wrote: "If the Spirit was another God person, Jesus would have said so"

  I'm saying, The Holy Spirit is the 3rd person/being of the GODhead, the Father and Son are the other two. Do you agree with this Gene?

Matthew 28:19 : Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

   Gene wrote: "The Holy Spirit is the very presences and power of the Godhead just as Jesus have made known."

  I know He (the Holy Spirit) is a person/being of the GODhead, Just like the Father & Son are, do you agree??

 Matthew 28:19 : Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

 Gene wrote: "The mystery is in your mind because you refuse to believe the Word of God"

  Of course I believe the Word of GOD Gene, but the mystery here is you confusing mysteries of GOD that was revealed to those that wasn't revealed. It's like your having an completely different discussion, we're here and your over there. The only thing the same is the word mystery, but again  your talking about revealed mysteries and we're talking unrevealed mysteries of GOD, mainly, how HE can be ONE and Three at the same time.

  On other levels of discussion and unrevealed mysteries of GOD, how can GOD just be, having no beginning, my human understanding tells me in order for something to be it has to be created, but that's not the case with GOD. That's a mystery we will never understand, because it's not for us to understand. Gene, there are things that will remain a mystery when it comes to GOD. Do you agree?

 

Blessings!

Reasoning,

If something is revealed it is no longer a mystery, it now becomes knowledge.

Matthew 13:11 And answering He said to them, "Because it has been granted to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of the heavens, but to them it has not been granted.

Only by believing Jesus are you granted this knowledge of the kingdom.

2Peter 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you through the “knowledge of God” and of Jesus our Lord. 3His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through the knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence.

It is God (God and Jesus our Lord) divine power (the Holy Spirit) which has given us everything we need for life.  This is why we read in Romans, “Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” The Spirit is life; it God’s divine power that acts upon the will of God.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Peace

 Gene wrote: "If something is revealed it is no longer a mystery, it now becomes knowledge."

  I know, that's why I keep telling you we're talking about unrevealed mysteries of GOD.

 Gene wrote: "There is no other God being, if there was Jesus would have me that know.  There is one God according to the bible which is the only true God, and Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit is another form of God and is verily God; God and the Word God, it is the formless presence and power acting upon the will of the Godhead.  Everything  else is just mythology."

 Gene wrote: "The Holy Spirit is truly God; the Father and the Son, it is their indwelling presence and power on those an in those who believe."

 Your correct in saying the Holy Spirit is truly GOD, He is of the GODhead. I understand what your saying, you believe the Holy Spirit is not a person/being, and I disagree, I believe the Holy Spirit is the 3rd person/being of the GODhead. The Father and Son are the other two, and all 3 are ONE!

 I think we agree on most of what you write, however your not convinced the Holy Spirit is an person/being of the GODhead just like the Father & Son.  

Matthew 28:19 : Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

    

  These 3 beings are ONE and they have names, we know the Father and Son's name, maybe brother Rob can share with us the verses of the Holy Spirit's name.

 Gene, the Father is a person/being, the Son is a person/being, and the Holy Spirit is a person/being, and all 3 are the GODhead. We are told to baptize in their names.  

 

 Blessings!

 

Reasoning, 

You say that you believe that the Holy Spirit is the third person of the Godhead; but why do you believe that, and how does one move from believing something to knowing as Jesus have points out?

So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you ...

If the nature of the HS is unknown, as you have quoted from EGW, how can anyone suggest it is a being; the third person of the Godhead, and where is this information derived from? It was implanted in our brains, it’s how Satan works as prince of the power of the air (waves).

You used Matthew 28 to suggest that it is a third person.

Matthew 28:19 : Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

"In the name of" doesn’t imply that the Holy Spirit is a God being and we are never told this nowhere in the scriptures. But it does imply that there is authority and power in its name.

"Stop in the name of the law” is an example.  Is the law a person? No but the law has authority and power in its name.

Jesus never referred to the Holy Spirit as God or a God, but as power from God.

And I send the promise of my Father upon you… you be endued with power from on high. (Luke 24:49)

The Holy Spirit is God power; God’s very own abilities that work in us and operating in the physical world.

Philippians 2:13 says,

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

The text says, it is God which worketh. Who then is God and how is God described in the bible?

This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Over and over again it is revealed in the bible that God is the Father and the Son; God and the Word God.

It is God presence and power that works in us which it the Spirit of God; the inspirational, intelligent presence and power of the Godhead.

Ephesians 4:4-5 says,

There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.…

Roman 8:9 makes it clear

…if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

So the Spirit of God the Father and the Spirit of God the Son (Christ) is that One Spirit.

Peace


Gene wrote: "If the nature of the HS is unknown, as you have quoted from EGW, how can anyone suggest it is a being; the third person of the Godhead, and where is this information derived from? It was implanted in our brains, it’s how Satan works as prince of the power of the air (waves)."


Good question, however, though the Holy Spirit's nature is unknown, that doesn't mean the Bible doesn't give us some understanding of the Holy Spirit. I know you believe the Holy Spirit is just the force or power of GOD the Father & Son, not a being like the Father & Son. The JW's would love to have you Gene.

Of course I disagree, "He", the Holy Spirit, whom Jesus said that "He" would come to comfort us. So Jesus is in Heaven, the Father is in Heaven and the Holy Spirit has been sent to lead us to righteousness. So to believe the Holy Spirit is not a being is overlooking the obvious, though we can't understand His nature.


I agree with you and Rom.8:9, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father and Son, why? Because they are ONE!


Yes, I keep posting Matt. 28:19, you know the Father and Son name correct, let me ask, what is the Holy Spirit's name? Surely He has a name if we are to baptize in His name.



Let me ask you Gene, since your on the outside looking in of SDA teaching... EGW said the Holy Spirit is the third person of the GODhead... Would you believe that's like saying the Holy Spirit is the third being of the GODhead?



blessings!

Reasoning,

 “He” does not imply that the Holy Spirit is a person; that may very well be a grammatical mis-inturptation from what I have studied because in several places the Holy Spirit is referred to as “it”.

Jesus said we will know the truth and the truth will set you free. What truth is Jesus referring too?  He obviously is speaking of the truth of the bible.

Sanctify them through your truth: your word is truth…

The truth about God and about the Holy Spirit is in the bible.  The question is to you trust the word of God or are you like some willing to refer to EGW for clarity? I’m not bashing EGW, I personally find complete clarity in the bible.

Jesus said that his own words are spirit.

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Words are spiritual when spoken, but our words do not contain life; God words are spirit and life.

Psalm 104:30 When you send your spirit, they are created, and you replenish the surface of the earth.

Did not God create through His word?

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth… And God said, "Let there be…

I’m trying to show you how the spirit of God operate.

Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

The word of God is Spirit, Jesus told us this. That word is sent the accomplish God’s purpose, his will just as we read in Philippians 2:13

 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure…

Notice what Jesus says in Revelation 3:21

He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne…

The Holy Spirit doesn’t have a throne, Jesus isn’t sharing a throne with the Father and the Spirit because the Spirit is not a God person; it just God’s presences, mind, power and authority sent from throne of God.

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever;

Scofield Reference Notes

[1] Comforter

G. Parakletos, "one called alongside to help." Translated "advocate," 1Jn 2:1. Christ is the believer's Paraclete with the Father when he sins; the Holy Spirit the believer's indwelling Paraclete to help his ignorance and infirmity and to make intercession Rom 8:26,27.

Peace


Gene wrote: " “He” does not imply that the Holy Spirit is a person; that may very well be a grammatical mis-inturptation from what I have studied because in several places the Holy Spirit is referred to as “it”."


Gene wrote: "The Holy Spirit is truly God; the Father and the Son, it is their indwelling presence and power on those an in those who believe."



Gene, thank you... Though you don't believe in SDA doctrine, I thank you for your perspective.
Just like you believe the Holy Spirit is truly GOD, and I'm sure we agree Jesus is GOD in the flesh as well... The Son is a being and the Holy Spirit is a being, right, you can call Him the power and thoughts of GOD, but that doesn't mean He's not a person/being...



ESV John16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.


KJV John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.



Now you can start a new post on when the Bible calls the Holy Spirit "He" and "It" and share your conclusions on that, but I'll stick to the translations given, and they call the Holy Spirit "He" and say "He shall not speak of Himself"...

For you, it's hard to imagine a powerful rushing wind could be a person/being, for me it's not, because I don't try to fit my human perception around His nature. I just know He is real, He is here to guide us into righteousness, comfort us, show us things to come, etc..


You keep saying the Holy Spirit is not another GOD person/being... Perhaps that phrasing can be confusing to yourself and others, look at it like this, just like Jesus is a manifestation of GOD in the flesh, so is the Holy Spirit. Both are persons/beings. There is ONE GOD and at the same time HE is manifested in the Son (which we agree is a person/being) and the Holy Spirit, which most SDA believe is a person/being.



Matthew 28:19 : Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:



If we are to baptize in their names, what is the Holy Spirit's name? We know the Father & Son has a name, do you believe the Holy Spirit has a name?


Again, you can't grasp how GOD the Spirit is a person/being, just like GOD the Father is a person/being & GOD the Son is a person/being... and at the same time ONE GOD!!



Gene, I'm asking your opinion, EGW said the Holy Spirit is the third person of the GODhead... Would you believe that's like saying the Holy Spirit is the third being of the GODhead? In other words would you say a person and being are one and the same? Thanks


Bless!
Gene said: " "In the name of" doesn’t imply that the Holy Spirit is a God being and we are never told this nowhere in the scriptures. But it does imply that there is authority and power in its name.
"Stop in the name of the law” is an example. Is the law a person? No but the law has authority and power in its name."

Gene I don't see the phrase 'stop in the name of the Law' in the Bible. You are comparing apples and oranges.

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