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If you are prison (may be during persecution time) and the only food is uncleaned food of no option being served,will you eat unclean food or risk dying starvation or malnourished.... What's your opinion?

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In Isaiah I think it is.. I read about those who eat swine not making it, in the day of the Lord. I suppose these people who refuse health principles also refuse Jesus, and refusing Jesus.. well, a bad choice non the less, but a choice. I gotta find it but I wanted to throw that out too.

Wait wait, someone already used it b4 me lol. Collins used it in Isaiah 66. Good verses btw about Daniel and his good example.
Rom 14:17 - Rom 14:18 (NIV) 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.


This was written for those who would make eating and drinking the focal point. The health message is the "right hand" of the Gospel of the third angel's message in these last days. f you will not refrain from eating meat for conscience sake, do it for stomach sake.

Daniel 1:
8 But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's meat, nor with the wine which he drank: therefore he requested of the prince of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself.
9 Now God had brought Daniel into favour and tender love with the prince of the eunuchs.
10 And the prince of the eunuchs said unto Daniel, I fear my lord the king, who hath appointed your meat and your drink: for why should he see your faces worse liking than the children which are of your sort? then shall ye make me endanger my head to the king.
11 Then said Daniel to Melzar, whom the prince of the eunuchs had set over Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah,
12 Prove thy servants, I beseech thee, ten days; and let them give us pulse to eat, and water to drink. 13 Then let our countenances be looked upon before thee, and the countenance of the children that eat of the portion of the king's meat: and as thou seest, deal with thy servants.
14 So he consented to them in this matter, and proved them ten days.
15 And at the end of ten days their countenances appeared fairer and fatter in flesh than all the children which did eat the portion of the king's meat.
16 Thus Melzar took away the portion of their meat, and the wine that they should drink; and gave them pulse.
17 As for these four children, God gave them knowledge and skill in all learning and wisdom: and Daniel had understanding in all visions and dreams.

The Point is,
If we eat of the things that God says are unclean, we defile ourselves. Remember, our bodies are temples in which the Holy spirit dwells. Even if it means risking dying of starvation or malnourishment. Daniel stood his ground and at the end of it all God provided a way for him. Let us obey God and leave the worrying to God. He will always provide a way. There is no substitute to obedience, whether it involves lying to protect ourselves or our family or eating unclean beasts or things inorder to avoid dying.

Isaiah 66:
16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.
Thanks Dabbi, I was about to bring that up, but Pastor Dough did a better job than I could have.

The issue here is obedience. God said in Genesis 1:31 that He saw everything He created and it was good, but He told Adam and Eve not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Was eating from the tree a salvation issue? I believe we can all answer yes to that. Salvation is based on faith and trust in God and what He says, even though we don't always understand it.

One last example, in Samuel 15 (please read it I will summarize it) God told Saul to destroy Amalik, to kill all the men, women, and children. To kill all the animals also. Saul did that, but he spared the king and the best of the animals. Saul told Samuel that he had done all that God asked, Samuel told Saul in verse 23 that what he had done was rebellion, and that was the same as witchcraft, iniquity, and idolatry. When Eve ate the fruit the sin was not a poison in the fruit, but it was her not trusting and doing something different then what God told her to do. That is rebellion against God, when we do not do what he asked.

When God gives us a command there is no room for "I think." I think it is better to save a life then to destroy one, but when God told Saul to destroy everyone He meant everyone. So when God tells us in His word not to eat unclean food I trust him. Sorry if this sounded intense, I just like to debate. :)
"I think" is ALL we have. Of course we have to 'think' with the guidance of the Holy Spirit ... but are we saying that unless all Christians think as we that they are not obeying and thus rebelling against God? I think not.

Praise God he judges by our heart and not the letter of the law. Sin is rebellion against God. So what you 'think' does matter. It is ALL that matters. Our interpretation of scripture WILL differ. But hopefully our intentions and love for God will not.
But we most not think that "post-modernism" is a valid thought process for Christians.

The bible does not talk about "personal" viewpoint, but about "truth".

We all are coming into the truth at different points, but let us not confuse "truth" with "post-modernism" which says everyones truths are equal.

That is not biblical and a lie of the devil.

Personal spirituality is ALL we have. One man's truth ... is another mans lies.

For instance .... if Truth was as you present it Mark .... I would not be a Christian.

Praise God .... I rejected your legalist teachings long ago.
Post modernism is not Christianity.

Personal Spirituality is not the same as Personal Opinion.

The idea that all of our Christianity is mere perspective is an attack on a very simple bible principle.

Here a little there a little.

Now we can grow into truth, and we may not have the completely same understanding as we have different levels of light, I agree, but that is not the same as "post-modernism" where everyones opinion is equal and no one is ultimately right.

We can have different levels of light but it will only ever grow brighter and draw closer and closer together, if indeed it is light and not darkness.

As to the insinuation that I teach legalism.

I do not teach legalism, far from it.

But teach that God is powerful enough to enable us to keep the law perfectly if we have faith in Christ's merits and faith enough to accept the promises of God as living realities.

Why would anyone fight against that simple truth?

God bless,

Simple Truth ... or 'your' truth?

No thanks to 'your' truth
Is Pastor Doug Batchelor a prophet that deliver "thus said the Lord..Rom 14..."

Sister White wrote in Ministry of Healing, "Cheese . . . is wholly unfit for food,"

What about clean meat that are prepared not according to bible that is the blood being completely drain out...?
What you need to realize Steven ... is that no one abides by all that Ellen White says. We take what things we are able to assimilate in our lives and push aside those that don't seem that critical.

And as far as scripture .... it is very clear what is important . But some try to make it out to be that works are more than relationship. That is what Satan would have us to do.
4 Him, yes, (I'm assuming you are Adventist) but we as Adventist often are criticized for being legalist. That keeping the Sabbath, or even the unclean food doctrines is trying to work/earn your way to heaven. I like this analogy, I do not cheat on my wife to prove that I love her. Instead I don't cheat on her because I love her. It is the same with our relationship with God we keep these principles because we love God and want to please Him. Not to earn our salvation or earn His love. But there are some who do all these things for the wrong reasons.

Steve, about what you said about Pastor Doug, there he was just clarifying what Paul wrote. Peter said in 2 Peter 3:15-16 that many of the things Paul wrote are difficult to understand, and were used by some to their own destruction. He also said what Paul wrote is scripture, so we just have to make sure we understand the context that Paul is writing in. For example, in Colossians 2:16 Paul says not to let any man judge you of the Sabbath days. But when you read the context and compare it to the old testament it is not hard to see that Paul was not saying the Sabbath was done away with.


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