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what do think are the reasons that our youth are leaving church?

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I don't think anyone is saying you can't be loud, it's just it doesn't have to be raucous. Often when the music is blaring and people are jumping up and down in church, it's more about enjoyment than it is about worship. When a person is concentrating on worship it is difficult to concentrate on swaying hips, etc. It's safer to be solemn and know that you are truly worshipping God in your mind than to realize after having a whole bunch of fun that you really didn't get much blessing out of it in the end.
Hello Reya :-)

It is the spirit of worship that is the issue.

Is it one of love and reverence for God.

Or is it a spirit of "entertainment and excitement" for the members?

One focuses on God, the other on the congregation.

I am all for praising God, but my God teaches me to listen to Him.

How can I hear Him if a drum kit is banging away in the background, how can I reverence Him?

I'm sorry for the multiple posts. I'm currently in a very strict country and they have so many banned/blocked sites and unfortunately one of them is adventist online so i'm always using my cellphone to access this site but the thing is it's slow in uploading and I tend to press the "send" button several times, still showing me the same screen and I got disconnected too several times so I gave up. It was yesterday when I checked again and found out it was posted multiple times so I already deleted most of it :)
Hello Joseph :)
IF Amos condemns David for what he did does it also mean he condemns those people who eat beef and lamb and sit on expensive beds and couches ...? as per the text above.

And by the way, maybe you think what I meant by jumping up and down resembles like that of what people do while watching rock concert. Maybe I should've have used the word "hop" instead. Here, we have some short choruses or action songs that requires you to hop a bit, move your arms, sway a bit and sometimes you have to exchange places with the person beside you while singing. We only do that during AY programs but in Sabbath school and Second service everything is solemn.
What i'm trying to say is maybe we should mix things and not just be stiff all throughout saturday (like what they do in my
hometown church)

Some of the instruments mentioned in the bible (including the ones you already mentioned)
Trumpet (shofar) - used for signalling, summoning, sounding alarm and special celebrations. (num. 10:1-10) i am guessin this one ought to be very loud.
Psaltery (harp) - stringed instrument made of wood and strings. (Ps. 137:2, Ps. 33:2)
Timbrel (hebrew for Tof or also known as tabret) - tof literally means mini-drum in hebrew. But this is more like a tambourine unlike the ones we have today. (1Samuel 18:6, Judges 11:34)
Stringed instruments (ex. nebel and kinnor) - nebel is bulky similar to harp and kinnor, instrument of king david, similar to lyre but closer to harp
Organ (like a pipe) - simple instrument used by shepherds made of single reed. (Job 21:12, Ps. 150:4)
Cymbals - thin metal plates that are made in pair and produce sound when struck together. The 'loud cymbals' are larger in diameter and the 'high-sounding (pitch) cymbals' were much smaller. (Ps. 150:5)

Psalms 150:3-6 Praise Him with the sound of the TRUMPET: praise Him with the PSALTERY. 4 Praise Him with the TIMBREL AND "DANCE". Praise Him with the STRINGED INSTRUMENT AND ORGANS. 5 Praise upon Him the LOUD CYMBALS; Praise upon Him the HIGH SOUNDING CYMBALS. 6 Let everything that hath breath praise the Lord; Praise ye the Lord.

I think the cymbals and trumpets made louder music than their drums but the point is they had a loud and joyful music.

Make a joyful noise to the Lord, all the earth; BREAK FORTH into joyous song and sing praises. Psalms 98:4
Good Post Reya.Amen to it. I've never understood why people are opposed to gyrating hips ... after all ... God gave them the ability to gyrate.
I am not asking you to leave Gabriel, that is the last thing I want.

But you have to understand that your picture is causing offense.

That does two things.

It immediately creates a negative impression on yourself.

Two, it makes it difficult for other people to take you seriously.

I am not saying this to "bash" you, I am saying this because I am concerned about the message the picture gives to visitors and I am concerned that it is not a good reflection on Christ. It also damages your credibility, which I do not think is good for you.

I reported the picture to the site adminstrators after I asked you twice to change the picture pointing out it was offensive. I have discussed this with no one else.

You refused, there was no other option left.

You have a responsibility to others on this board Gabriel, using a picture that offends them is not a Christian act.

I would ask you to prayerfully consider this.

This is exactly why people ... and not just young people ... leave the church.

Just take a look at your post MarkT ... do you read what you type before pressing 'add reply'.

The only good part of this post is the last sentence. Yes, you have the right to 'ask'. But you don't have to right to bash another Christian for what you perceive to be 'offensive'. My goodness. You certainly do have your sensitivities. But they are 'yours'. The only person who should change ... is YOU.

Why would you cause someone to 'fall' because of your sensitivities? Why is it necessary to push your strong arm of authority on another Christian. That is not what Christ did. Make your concerns known. The two concerns you listed were for Gabriel as a person. But then you try to force the issue. I have to suspect that there are other personal issues you must have. And I do suspect that you have 'issues'.

Let's be responsible Christians and not beat people over the head with what "WE" think others should do. Let's be tolerant of each other and realize that "WE" may be wrong. And that even IF we are correct ... we have to allow the Holy Spirit to work with other in HIS time ... and not OURS.
Gabriel ... I support what you are doing. And I support your decisions. I am sorry for the abuse you have received here. And NO one should change you. You are the one that changes on your own terms as the Holy Spirit leads you. To change according to someone elses terms would be contrary to all that our Lord has taught us.

It is good to have you here and I am glad that you decided to stick it out even though you have been mistreated. Way to go ...
Well ... you are clearly defining who you are for all to see. No doubt about that. I am curious .... are there any youth left in the church you attend?
Well my friend. Gabriel has defined what the picture means. And he has identified it as the symbol of peace. Two fingers as a 'v' have meant 'peace since the 60s. Not sure what new invention that you are trying to make of this.

You can try to turn this 'issue' around to an attack on you. That is good debating tactics of the world. But the issue is about what you have done here to Gabriel. Don't try to divert.

We are called to call sin by it's name ... not the sinner. So, you have given your opinion. But to force the issue is sin. It has to be left up to Gabriel and the Holy Spirit. Leave it at that.

This is not a speck by the way. This is the issue of the thread which is Why are the youth leaving? And what you have done is exactly why.
The reason the youth are leaving is because the adults are not converted and neither are they.

Because they do not have a personal walk with Jesus.

Not because they get corrected occassionally...

In England this is an extremely offensive symbol Gabriel, I do not know if it has the same connotation in America.

The reverse of the symbol with the hand the other way around is the peace symbol in England.


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