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Events to Take Place Just Before the Seventh Trumpet Sounds.
Revelation 10.

Rev. 10:1-3, 8-10: “And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: and he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, and cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth:

“And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open In the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth. And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey. And I took the little book out of the angel’s hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.”

(We have omitted Rev. 10:4, as it deals with the seven thunders, a subject about which John was told not to write, and which remains unrevealed.)

This “mighty angel,” he who “set his right foot upon the sea, and his left on the earth,” and who instructed John to eat the book, has been long understood to represent the message which was proclaimed on both land and sea, world-wide, by William Miller and his associates, beginning in 1831 A.D. (The Great Controversy, p. 331), and culminating in the disappointment of 1844.

The surpassing joy with which the all-engrossing thought that Christ was coming in the autumn of 1844 A.D. possessed the believers then, was indeed as “sweet as honey” to them. But when the longingly awaited hour came, and failed their joyous expectations, the sweet of hope turned to the “bitter” of disappointment. It did so not only because they had still longer to remain on this cursed and hapless earth, sin-convulsed and death-weary, instead of entering into a land where there is “no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither...any more pain” (Rev. 21:4), but also because they were mocked by the wicked multitude, who hated the idea that the world was then coming to an end.

In this great joy of expectation and bitterness of disappointment was fulfilled the forecast: “it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.” Rev. 10:10.

Chapter 10, verse 10, we see, has taken us back to the disappointment in 1844. Also we see that verses 10 and 11 are sequential. Obviously, the latter must therefore carry us on to the next great event which was to take place, and which was to bring light, hope, and courage to the then disheartened church of God. Says John, concerning the angel’s prediction of what was to follow:

Rev. 10:11. “And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.”

To correct their misunderstanding on Daniel 8:14 the prophetic Word of God declared: “Thou must prophesy again;” that is, repeat the preaching of Christ’s coming to earth. But as His people were then greatly confused and unable to reconcile the Scriptures, God sent into their midst one, Ellen G. Harmon, seventeen years of age, to be His mouthpiece unto them. She was given a vision relative to the disappointment and the ingathering of the first fruits, the 144,000. (See Early Writings, pp. 13-20.)

By that time it was understood that the statement, “the sanctuary shall be cleansed,” did not mean that Christ was to cleanse the earth in 1844, but rather that in fulfillment of Daniel 7:9, 10, He was to cleanse the heavenly sanctuary. This is the very event which opened the seals and sounded the trumpets, and which, as we have seen, John was told would be “here-after.” (See Revelation, chapters 4 and 5.) Possessed of this understanding, a small group of believers, who later called themselves “Seventh-day Adventists,” organized into a body, and zealously moved on with the prospect in view of gathering in “the servants of our God” (the 144,000). This work appeared to them to be an overwhelmingly great task, and it met with ridicule on every side.

When the long-sought number (144,000) of living church members was finally reached in the year 1917, and the world had yet but barely been touched by the message, the leaders of the denomination became confused, but only because they lost sight of the truth that there were bad as well as good in the “net” (gospel church), as Christ had predicted:

“The kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: which, when it was full [when the prospective number was made up], they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.” Matt. 13:47, 48.

The result was that they began to doubt and to question and variously to explain away their former position both as to the number to be gathered in, and the generation to witness the end, until today the subject of the 144,000 has become to them one of the most confused and mooted of Bible subjects.

But now the message of the 144,000 (who are to be without guile in their mouth), the appointed number of first-fruit servants to be sealed in the church, are to be separated from the unconsecrated. And the number to be sealed being much smaller than the number of the membership, it sadly reminds us that therein are many “tares.”

Inasmuch as the paramount purpose and hope of the S.D.A. denomination from its outset has been to gather the 144,000, it should be more conversant with this subject than with any other, “ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh” “a reason” of its “hope.” 1 Pet. 3:15. Sadly, though, it is not; instead, it is more ignorant of who and what are the 144,000 than it is perhaps of any other known Bible truth. And what is still sadder, many of its teachers who are refusing to accept this “most startling revelation” (Testimonies to Ministers, p. 445), are now insisting that a knowledge of the subject is not essential to their soul’s salvation. And thereby they are saying that they are “rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing,” thus implying that God has put a non-essential subject in the Bible! Thus they are self-doomed to remain wretched (unhappy), and miserable (troubled), and poor (in need of truth), and blind (benighted), and naked (without the righteousness of Christ), and consequently to reject the words: “I counsel thee to buy of Me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich;...and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.” Rev. 3:17, 18.

And sadder yet, even after our brethren are plainly shown that the 144,000 are only the “firstfruits,” and that the second are still to be gathered in, they refuse to be convinced, obstinately following on in the fatal steps which from the very beginning have led into the ditch every leadership at the revelation of a new message.

Failing, as a natural sequence, to grasp the fact that the “angel” said, “thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings” (Rev. 10:11), but not before all, they blindly insist that they are commissioned and ready to “prophesy” before all; that is, to finish the work in all the world. And this, despite heir deplorable Laodicean condition!

The trumpet symbolism has now brought us up to the time of the ingathering of the “firstfruits” (the 144,000). First fruits predicate second fruits, for it is necessarily true that there can be no first where there is no second. Wherefore just as there is a prophetic commission for the ingathering of the firstfruits from “many nations,” so there must be one for the ingathering of the second fruits from “all nations.” There being, moreover, an important event and a message at the commencement of the ingathering of the “first-fruits” from many nations, since 1844, so must there be an important event and a message signalizing the commencement of the ingathering of the second fruits, the great multitude, from all nations. This logic leads us to Isaiah’s prophecy:

“For by fire and by His sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many.... And I will send those that escape of them unto the nations,...that have not heard My fame, neither have seen My glory; and they shall declare My glory among the Gentiles.” Isa. 66:16, 19.

The action in verse 20 shows that the slaying in verse 16 effects the separation of the first fruits in the church. Indeed, were the church not the scene of the slaying, then those who escape from it, God could not send to the nations (the Gentiles), for they themselves would be heathen instead of Christians, and He would then be sending heathen unto heathen! And as the escaped are to go to the Gentiles to proclaim His fame to them the slaughter evidently takes place before the close of probation, and does not harm those who at that time know not His fame.

Verse 20 of Isaiah 66 also reveals that those who escape the slaying of the Lord will be sent, not to “many” but to “all nations.” And, too it reveals that instead of bringing 144,000 only the escaped ones will bring “all” their “brethren for an offering unto the Lord out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to My holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the Lord, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the Lord.” Isa. 66:20.

Rev. 11:1. “And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.”

Though the last verse (verse 11) of Rev. 10 brings us to the rise of the S.D.A. denomination, and to the commission to go to “many nations,” it does not disclose the message which the denomination was to proclaim. So the eleventh chapter being a continuation of the tenth, must disclose it.

During the period of the sixth trumpet there is no literal temple. Thus the measuring (Rev. 11:1) can refer only to a spiritual temple made up of lively stones (saints), as described in Ephesians 2:20-22, or to a figure of the heavenly temple. In either case, the clause “measure...them that worship therein,” must figuratively mean to number them, for worshipers are not measured but numbered. In view of this fact, we are compelled to conclude, unless otherwise shown that the temple, the altar, and the worshipers must each be figurative of a class of believers. And all three must be measured (numbered) after the disappointment in 1844 and during the time of the S.D.A. movement.

Considering that therein are “good” and “bad” members, then very obviously this measuring, or numbering, the worshipers is nothing more or less that a work of investigating and judging their fidelity to the truth. Hence it is a work of retaining in the books only the names of those who have endured to the end and measured up to the standard of the judgment —the character of Christ. Incontrovertibly, therefore, the measuring, or numbering, figures forth the work of an investigative judgment.

Thus the doctrine of the investigative judgment, along with the doctrine of ingathering and numbering the 144,000, comprises the present truth committed to the S.D.A. denomination in 1844. And these two great truths up to the additional message of today (Early Writings, p. 277), the S.D.A. denomination was to proclaim “before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.”

“The investigative judgment” decides the cases of those who have professed faith in God, and who in consequence have had their names recorded in the books (Dan. 7:10), but some of whom have not endured to the end. It determines which names shall be retained and which shall be blotted out. So not until the investigation is completed, the sanctuary cleansed from unworthy members, will the books show the exact number of names that will be retained and accounted worthy of life eternal.





To Many But Not To All.

The Revelator also having been given a vision of these two movements (recorded in chapters 10 and 11), we direct the reader’s attention to the “little book” which he was asked to eat. In his “mouth” it was as sweet as honey, but in his “belly” it became very bitter. This rapt experience, in vision, of sweet foretaste turning into bitter disappointment, exactly foretells the 1844 experience of God’s people. Their sweet and all-consuming hope in the Lord’s promise, “I will come again, and receive you unto Myself; that where I am, there ye may be also” (John 14:3), was then expected to become a reality, whereas, instead, it turned into bitter disappointment.

Following this sweet-bitter experience, came the fulfillment of the angel’s words: “Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.” Rev. 10:11.

Here, too, as in Zechariah’s prophecy, the Movement was to “prophecy again” or to “cry yet”; that is, repeat its mission, showing that probation was not closed.

So on the authority of these scriptures, the movement was again, after the disappointment, to proclaim the gospel, but only to “many,” not to “all.” Accordingly, the Seventh-day Adventist denomination in its 1844 commission, was to “prophesy” (teach), not to “all,” but simply to “many,” nations. Necessarily, then, it must receive another commission, one to go to “all nations.”

There is, therefore, another message; it is to join the Third Angel’s Message, just as stated by the Spirit of Prophecy:

“Then I say another mighty angel commissioned to descend to the earth, to unite his voice with the third angel, and give power and force to his message. Great power and glory were imparted to the angel, and as he descended, the earth was lightened with his glory.... This message seemed to be an addition to the third message, joining it as the midnight cry joined the second angel’s message in 1844.” —Early Writings, p. 277.

“When light goes forth to lighten the earth,” says the Spirit of Prophecy, concerning the church’s reception of the message, and the way in which the Lord shall then work, “instead of coming up to the help of the Lord, they will want to bind about His work to meet their narrow ideas. Let me tell you that the Lord will work in this last work in a manner very much out of the common order of things, and in a way that will be contrary to any human planning. There will be those among us who will always want to control the work of God, to dictate even what movements shall be made when the work goes forward under the direction of the angel who joins the third angel in the message to be given to the world. God will use ways and means by which it will be seen that He is taking the reins in His own hands.” —Testimonies to Ministers, p. 300.

Turning again to the “more sure word of prophecy,” in search of the commission to all nations, we also find that

Before the Gospel Goes to All Nations, a Great Slaughter Takes Place.

“For by fire and by His sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many.” Isa. 66:16.

Here we see that very thing —a great slaughter; and that by the Lord Himself. But what the reader is naturally most concerned to know is where and when this destruction is to take place. Verses 19 and 20 state that those who escape the slaughter, the Lord shall send to all nations that have not as yet heard of His “fame, neither have seen” His “glory.”

From the commission to the great world-wide missionary movement which is here brought to view, and which necessarily takes place before the close of probation, the slaughter is plainly seen to have been executed before the “gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and...the end come.” Matt. 24:14. “And they [the escaped ones] shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the Lord out of all nations...in a clean vessel into the house of the Lord.” Isa. 66:20.

Remember that those who escape the slaughter are the ones who do this soul harvesting. The slaughter, therefore, is the destruction of the “tares” who are among God’s people —the church. Should it be of the heathen (those outside the church), then those who escape would have to be heathen themselves. And such could not either proclaim His glory and His fame or bring all their brethren into the house of the Lord. Neither could there be any nation left to which the escaped ones could go!

Couple with this the fact that those who escape the slaying are they who go to all nations and bring all their brethren (all who are to be saved) into the Lord’s house, and you have an unbreakable sequence of evidence that this destruction takes place just before the gospel goes in its final surge to all the world.

Though this engrossing subject is but briefly treated herein, yet for lucidity, harmony, and logic, the truth of it stands peer to any. It gives a prophetic outline of church history from Miller’s time to the present day, showing the opening and closing of each Movement, also its work and destiny: that is, the mistake attending the Millerite Movement (understanding the cleansing of the “sanctuary” to be the of the earth); the limited commission of the Seventh-day Adventist Movement (authorizing it to go, not to “all” nations, but simply to “many”); its purification (removing the tares from its midst); its being launched as a new, a purified, movement, presenting the church of Christ worthy of His blessed name for the first time since apostolic days. At last a light unto all the world, it proclaims the gospel with a loud cry “for a witness unto all nations:” then comes the finale —the inevitable end (Matt. 24:14).

This composite pictorial revelation of gospel work and workers, contributed to by the prophets, discloses a church that keeps “the commandments of God” and has “the testimony of Jesus Christ.” It is “clad in the armor of Christ’s righteousness,...’fair as the moon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners,...to go forth into all the world, conquering and to conquer.” —Prophets and Kings, p. 725.

On one hand, the light of Present Truth now enables the eye to see both the work of William Miller and that of Sister White deeply rooted in the “more sure work of prophecy.” On the other hand, it lays open the spiritual poverty and nakedness of their critics. The Lord’s voice is also heard saying against them: “I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.” Jer. 23:21.

The eyes of the Lord, piercing everywhere throughout the earth, failed not to foresee these uncalled workers who, notwithstanding His sounding far and near the solemn warning that “the great and dreadful day of the Lord” is here, are in blind defiance trying to out-din the voice of Truth with their mounting cry of “peace and safety.” Let us, my brethren, turn our ears from the multitude of voices devoid of the Holy Spirit, and diligently give heed to

The Lord’s Final Plea.

“Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the Lord. They say still unto them that despise Me, The Lord hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you. For who hath stood in the counsel of the Lord, and hath perceived and heard His Word? who hath marked His Word, and heard it?” Jer. 23:16-18.

“Behold,” answers the Lord Himself, “a whirlwind of the Lord is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked. The anger of the Lord shall not return, until He have executed, and till He have performed the thoughts of His heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly. I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied. But if they had stood in My counsel and had caused My people to hear My words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.” Jer. 23:19-22.

Obvious it is that the opposition is engendered and nurtured by self-appointed leaders who avowedly laying no claim to “inspiration” are thereby unwittingly crying out that the Lord has not sent them! Yet neither they nor their adherents perceive either the irony or the folly of their position! Hence “sleeping preachers preaching to a sleeping people!” —Testimonies, Vol. 2, p. 337.

When they find themselves face to face with either the “overflowing scourge” (Isa. 28:18) of the final visitation of “the wrath of God” (Rev. 15:1), they will be stabbed with the tragedy of futile realization. That which now from a distance appears to them, mirage-like, an ocean of grace, will then inescapably engulf them in abysmal ruin —eternally!

“For the Lord shall rise up as in mount Perazim He shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that He may do His work, His strange work; and bring to pass His act, His strange act.

“Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord God of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth. Give ye ear, and hear My voice; hearken, and hear My speech” (Isa. 28:21-23), lest your hope of grace “be as when an hungry man dreameth, and, behold, he eateth; but he awaketh, and his soul is empty: or as when a thirsty man dreameth, and, behold, he drinketh; but he awaketh, and, behold, he is faint, and his soul hath appetite: so shall the multitude of all the nations be, that fight against mount Zion.

“Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink. For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered. And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed: and the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.” Isa. 29:8-12.

“Men and women are in the last hours of probation, and yet are careless and stupid, and ministers have no power to arouse them; they are asleep themselves. Sleeping preachers preaching to a sleeping people!” —Testimonies, Vol. 2, p. 337.

“Doubt and even disbelief of the testimonies of the Spirit of God, is leavening...churches everywhere. Satan would have it thus. Ministers who preach self instead of Christ would have it thus.” —Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 217.

Brethren, because the Lord loves you, and because he is loath to make of you a vessel of dishonor, He addresses this tract to you. We, too, are heart-sick that you have, as the Jews of old, deeply involved yourselves in a war against the Spirit of Prophecy —a war which you cannot win. In rejecting heaven-sent messages, in ignoring the wise counsel of the learned Gamaliel (Acts 5:34-39), and in persistently trying to support with scriptures your questionable interpretations of the Bible, as do Sabbath-breakers in evading the Sabbath truth, you are following in a course which, if persisted in will lead you to commit the sin against the Holy Ghost.

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Replies to This Discussion

Those who will not hear the messengers of peace, shall be made to hear the messengers of war. But where the heart is fixed, trusting in God, it is kept in peace, and is not afraid. It is against the mind of Christ, that his people should have troubled hearts, even in troublous times.

When we looked forward to the eternity of misery that is before the obstinate refusers of Christ and his gospel, we may truly say, The greatest earthly judgments are but the beginning of sorrows. It is comforting that some shall endure even to the end. The Word of GOD foretells the preaching of the gospel in all the world. The end of the world shall not be till the gospel has done its work.
you mention the word hereafter (Rev.4:1) as if it should apply to the time after 1844, it does not, it is applied to John's time as he looked forward. Then you say this event opened the seals and sounded the trumpets, you may want to say it opened the meanings to the pioneers understandings, or rather God revealed it to them. As you lnow, we now live between the 6th and 7th seal.

please verify the below statement with a historical reference:

When the long-sought number (144,000) of living church members was finally reached in the year 1917, and the world had yet but barely been touched by the message, the leaders of the denomination became confused, but only because they lost sight of the truth that there were bad as well as good in the “net” (gospel church), as Christ had predicted:

you also say "measuring the worshippers" is the number, it is not, it is a work of judgment.
Measuring the Church of God.--The grand judgment is taking place, and has been going on for some time. Now the Lord says, Measure the temple and the worshipers thereof. Remember when you are walking the streets about your business, God is measuring you; when you are attending your household duties, when you engage in conversation, God is measuring you. Remember that your words and actions are being daguerreotyped [photographed] in the books of heaven, as the face is reproduced by the artist on the polished plate. . . . {7BC 972.1}
Here is the work going on, measuring the temple and its worshipers to see who will stand in the last day. Those who stand fast shall have an abundant entrance into the kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. When we are doing our work remember there is One that is watching the spirit in which we are doing it. Shall we not bring the Saviour into our everyday lives, into our secular work and domestic duties? Then in the name of God we want to leave behind everything that is not necessary, all gossiping or unprofitable visiting, and present ourselves as servants of the living God (MS 4, 1888). {7BC 972.2}
You are also appyling Isaiah 66:16 to the future and that is wrong it is applied to the ancient Jews.

You are saying there will be a slaughter in the Adventist church among the tares before the close of probation and you apply that to Isaiah 66:16.
That is incorrect. It is also what Victor Houteff of Shepherds Rod taught. Are you Shepherds Rod?
Houteff also interpreted the parable of wheat and tares and the harvest of Revelation (Matt. 13:36-43; Rev. 14:14-19). These he applied to the present time period, anticipating the coming of the Davidic kingdom. Instead of describing events to occur at Jesus' return, Houteff believed the harvest of grain began January 1, 1931, with a vision he received appointing him to call out the 144,000. The harvest of tares, he taught, will be a divine slaughter of Adventists who reject his message, fulfilling the prophecy of Ezekiel 9.

A major theme of Shepherd's Rod teaching has been an interpretation of the prophecy of Ezekiel 9. At a point prior to probation's close, we are told, divine agencies will destroy those Adventists who reject the appeals of the Shepherd's Rod. This represents an invisible coming of Christ to establish the Davidic kingdom prior to probation's close. Later, Jesus is to come in visible glory to establish His kingdom following the seven last plagues.
Though you did not mention Ezekiel 9, your basic thesis is the same as Houteffs.
I hope this isn't too long for people to read, I find that many blogs and comments make for a tedious experience of reading hehe

Eve
When the long-sought number (144,000) of living church members was finally reached in the year 1917, and the world had yet but barely been touched by the message, the leaders of the denomination became confused, but only because they lost sight of the truth that there were bad as well as good in the “net” (gospel church), as Christ had predicted:

me
maybe they were still shocked by the death of Ellen White in 1915, they might have thought that she was supposed to be among them, sealed among the living.

Eve
Thus they are self-doomed to remain wretched (unhappy), and miserable (troubled), and poor (in need of truth), and blind (benighted), and naked (without the righteousness of Christ), and consequently to reject the words: “I counsel thee to buy of Me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich;...and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.” Rev. 3:17, 18.

me
I would say that they are rejecting the remedy, or the oil that the foolish virgins have access to right now, but if you aren't willing to write that it's the message of the Latter Rain truth contained in the Shepherd's Rod message, you are losing the emphasis!

Eve
And sadder yet, even after our brethren are plainly shown that the 144,000 are only the “firstfruits,” and that the second are still to be gathered in, they refuse to be convinced, obstinately following on in the fatal steps which from the very beginning have led into the ditch every leadership at the revelation of a new message.

me
I would include in here that it's not just the 144,000 from the church, but Is.10:20 establishes those with them, and since you post Ellen White's writings, you could say that she speaks of praying to be one of or one with the 144,000, of which are from the church, not including the great multitude from Babylon till after the mark of the beast is established!

Eve
Is.66: The action in verse 20 shows that the slaying in verse 16 effects the separation of the first fruits in the church. Indeed, were the church not the scene of the slaying, then those who escape from it, God could not send to the nations (the Gentiles), for they themselves would be heathen instead of Christians, and He would then be sending heathen unto heathen! And as the escaped are to go to the Gentiles to proclaim His fame to them the slaughter evidently takes place before the close of probation, and does not harm those who at that time know not His fame.

me
haha you write like me, and it's common that after I write something, I read it over again and find it requires elaboration haha! "does not harm those who at that time know not His fame". I would elaborate, "This would be applicable to those not in the church at the first fruit harvest in the removal of the tares, but applicable to those of the second harvest, when the Kingdom is promoted to all the world"!

me

you need to explain what Is.66:20 means, just reading the quote is like reading the bible without any perspective.

Eve

Though the last verse (verse 11) of Rev. 10 brings us to the rise of the S.D.A. denomination, and to the commission to go to “many nations,” it does not disclose the message which the denomination was to proclaim. So the eleventh chapter being a continuation of the tenth, must disclose it.

me

This is beautiful, but as we both know that it's possible to leave things out as we are all learning. I am actually going to end up responding to both you and Stephen hehe. The fact is that Chapter 11:1 explains only part of what is to be disclosed, being applicable to the Investigative Judgment of the Living in its' continuation of measurement of the SDA church in this case. I say this case as the judgment of the living is continuous throughout the ages since the fall of humanity 1Cor.11:31.

This is why we have line upon line, precept upon precept and the man that nourishes the young cow and 2 Sheep (the man being Victor Houteff, the young cow being Ellen White's writings and the 2 Sheep, the Old and New Testament). An analogy to this is the 2 Anointed Ones, 2 Witnesses, 2 Olive Trees, 2 Candlesticks, 2 Prophets.

The fact that there is much more light that both Ellen White and Victor Houteff provide, we must go to the prophecies that they interpreted throughout the Bible. There are many details of which are contained in the Early and Latter Rain Truths, but to establish a main factor is understanding the 2 prophecies that Jesus fulfills. The first is bringing salvation to the whole world, this is the first prophecy that produced the Christian Era. The second prophecy of the Old Testament, obviously, as this is where the prophecies are written regarding Him, is that of the Kingdom. The Jews expected the Messiah to set up a Kingdom Mic.5:2 for example, a very vast prophecy.

There are 3 attributes that Micah presents in this prophecy.
First: Jesus coming as a Babe to Bethlehem, this is to bring salvation to the world, as we know, Jesus is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah! I think all Adventism would agree once understood!
Second: I will post the part necessary:
"yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel".

We all know that Jesus, incarnate, being the manifestation of the Power of God among us, didn't rule in Israel! He came to bring salvation to the world and accomplished it through His death and resurrection!

This part of the quote states that,"yet" (though Bethlehem be little), out of,"thee" (Bethlehem), shall come,"forth" (resurrected) unto,"me" (God) Act.3:20,21 that is to be ruler in Israel. Jesus is to be ruler in Israel, obviously not of the Jews that reject Him! Jesus is to fulfill the second prophecy of the Old Testament, to set up the Kingdom in the last days, the restoration of all things. His Kingdom is not to be of this world (the corrupt governments we know so well). He is to set up His Theocratic government for the purpose of calling the sheep from other folds John 10:16 into this Kingdom to avoid the wrath of God upon those that take the mark of the beast!

Third: Jesus is from everlasting, He is from the Bosom of the Father! The Father and Jesus made a plan to save humanity and Jesus will ultimately rule the Universe as Heir to the Throne.

This, "enduring to the end", is a questionable thing to me, to the end of what?! Well, we know it's not with regard to the end of the world as many are dying before the end of the world, so this is applicable to the end of a person's' life, once to die, then the judgment, once a person dies their names come up in the books of record, if they have Jesus next to their name, they aren't judged at all but justified, if they don't, judgment is done according to the life. Many more things could be said here!

Sanctification is what shows each of us whether each of us might be saved or not, we have not the final judgment though, we share with each other the truth and let the information that is supplied bring conviction to another individual or not, the outcome is not for us to say! We can know each other by our fruits, this means exactly as stated previous, one might grow or one might not, there is no judgment to be done by us, at least not currently, during the 1000 years with Jesus, yes!

The message of the wheat and tares, and also that of the restoration of the Kingdom are presented in many facets of the Word of God and explained in the Early and Latter Rain Truths (Ellen White's and Victore Houteff's writings). Those that are praying for such ought to be prepared for such to come to them by us servants that received it from other servants the same way (sharing), even though they might not expect them to come, they will be amazed when they take the time to exalt the Spirit of Truth rather than resist!

As for Stephen's:

Rev.1:1 and 1:19 are applicable to the 7 churches Rev.1:4. These are both literal and symbolical churches showing the movements since the Early Christian church up to our time with the Laodicean church being the latest, known as the SDA church of our day. Most have passed on so their judgment will take place accordingly while those that are still alive in the latest church are required to judge themselves that they be not judged 1Cor.11:31 should they live to see the Kingdom of the future, otherwise, they will be judged as those that have died and are in the books of record for the cleansing of the sanctuary Dan.8:14 which culminated in 1844 under the Investigative Judgment of the Dead.

Rev.4:1 introduces the judiciary scene that applies to the whole world, leading to the symbolism of the first Seal Rev.6:1. This judgment is from Adam and Eve to the close of probation as revealed in the remainder of the book of Revelation. The actual judgment scene is what is hereafter, the judgment for the dead began in 1844 through the prophecy of Dan.8:14 through the revelation by the SDA church. The activities of the Seals, Trumpets and other chapters of activities take place since the fall of Adam and Eve to the New Earth.

Is.66:16. The Jews were to go to all nations with the Gospel of the Ceremonial System, but they came to understanding that salvation was limited to them, they wouldn't even communicate with the Heathen or Gentiles, this is obvious due to the fact that even the Gentiles knew that the Jews would not communicate with them and evidenced at the well with the woman and Jesus.

There are many prophecies in Isaiah that speak with regard to the end of days, particularly Is.2:2, in the last days, this is where we believe we are at, this isn't applicable to the Jews, at least not since Jesus has come and taken away their nation through their rejection of Him, now the Gospel is to the Gentiles who may become Jews through Jesus!

As asked previously in other areas, I don't see where you see a vision to call out the 144,000, show that statement from Victor Houteff's writings?! We are not to call out (we don't call the church Babylon) but to bring the truth to, just as every servant of the past, Jesus Himself went to the Jews, He didn't start another church, the disciples became the true Jews through Jesus whereas those that claimed to be Jews became of the synagogue of Satan!

To both, Eve and Stephen:

The Seals are opened by Jesus, John wrote them! The Seals and Trumpets are both interpreted in the writings that are contained in the Bowl of Zech.4 (Ellen White's and Victor Houteff's writings).

I know that Stephen is an adversary of what we believe to be truth so I don't expect any good response there.

Regarding measuring or numbering, the outcome is the same, if one is judging themselves, they are recognizing their carnal nature is evil, therefore they are accepting Jesus Christ as their Saviour and receiving all things that God has supplied of truth, this is sanctification, therefore, having become one of or one with the 144,000.

To Em Murr:
The end of the world is a period of time, it's called, "the harvest"! We all know that Jesus used nature to establish truth, therefore, we are called to hear the Latter Rain Truth, The Truth comes before the Power, therefore, the Power is to go to all the world during the mark of the beast, otherwise, what purpose is there to call anyone out if the mark is after the close of probation?!
"Babylon" is the name of an ancient empire. We can trace the word back to Genesis 11:1-9 where the "tower of Babel" is described. This kind of tower, or ziggurat, was built to house a special pagan shrine at its summit. The term "babel" originally meant "the gate of god." Babel was a place of man-made worship; people worshiped many different false gods along with the God of heaven.

At the tower of Babel people began speaking in different languages. Suddenly they could not understand each other; there was great confusion. That's why "babel" came to mean "confusion." In Scripture, Babylon symbolizes the confusion of false teachings—a mixture of religious truth and error.

In the book of Revelation, Babylon becomes a symbol of the religious organizations, sects, and cults that do not completely follow God's teachings in the Bible. As we've seen in our study of history, the medieval Roman Church system incorporated human traditions as part of its belief system and united with civil authorities to enforce its teachings. This same religious system will play this role again before Jesus comes.

Always remember, the Bible is talking about a religious system. There are many wonderful believers who worship God in the Catholic Church, and in various Protestant denominations. They love God and serve Him sincerely. They are making a positive difference in their communities and the world as they serve others in the name of Jesus. But all Christians need to make a critical choice. They need to take a stand as did John Huss, Martin Luther, and other reformers who lived hundreds of years ago.

Many of these courageous individuals were clergy of the Roman Catholic Church. But in their study of Scripture they made startling discoveries. They found to their dismay that the Church had mixed the teachings of human beings with the teachings of God. And these traditions had distorted essential New Testament truths about grace, forgiveness, and salvation. So they had to rise in protest. That is where the word "Protestant" originated, from those who protested against the false teachings of the Church.

Martin Luther, father of the Lutheran Church, had numerous concerns, but he focused his protest around three key points: (1) People are saved by faith alone. Salvation is a free gift. The Roman Church had created ways of earning merit to ensure salvation. (2) The Bible is all-sufficient for teaching and guidance. God warned against adding to, or subtracting from, His Word. The Roman Church stated that church councils establish truth. In addition, it stated that tradition as well as Scripture may form truth. (3) All Christians are "priests" who minister for Jesus Christ. The clergy are not the only ones to minister and study the Bible.

Other teachings that were highlighted with the emergence of Protestant denominations include: baptism by immersion, as opposed to sprinkling; obedience to the Ten Commandments, as opposed to a change in the commandments; and seventh-day Sabbath worship, as opposed to worship on the first day of the week.

God tells us His Word is faithful and true, a light shining along the path of life. He also tells us in the book of Revelation that the teachings of men will fail and human religious systems will fall. It is our responsibility to "come out" of those churches and groups which distort basic biblical teachings by mixing them with human doctrines
.Revelation, chapters 17 and 18, paint a pretty grim picture. This is serious business. However, remember that God is also telling us that sin and those who perpetuate sin will be vanquished forever. Someday we will be able to enjoy face-to-face companionship with God every day; no evil forces will ever again interfere with our peace and happiness. But these chapters do give people a warning. It is possible to be eternally lost by making the wrong decision. It is possible to reject that forever friendship with God.
There is also wonderful hope in this verse. In the midst of the chaos of Babylon's collapse, the dark clouds part, thunder rolls, and a stream of light blazes down from heaven. Some instinctively cover their faces. Others look up with assurance. Why? Because in this moment of intense conflict God says, "It's OK. Relax,You belong to Me. You are My chosen one. I died for you. I adopted you as My very own child. So come and rest in the shelter of My arms." What incredible assurance from a marvelous God!
Satan, who was cast out of heaven for his rebellion, wages continuous warfare against Christ, the Son of God; against God's people; and against the divine law of God. The keeping of the commandments of God will be one of the things that will identify His remnant people, and Satan will seek to discourage them by bringing reproach and trouble upon them. The issue of God's Son and God's law is to become worldwide; and, upon our relationship to this issue, our eternal destiny will be determined. May God help us all to be on God's side.
Numbered, is the paragraph to refer to in Paula's comments

3. You say, the same system will repeat this activity before Jesus comes, yes, we know this to be the mark of the beast.

Tell me then, why is it that the church, any church that claims to be Christian, is looking for Jesus to come in the clouds when they all know that the time of trouble is to happen first!?

4. These other denominations are what Jesus refers to as other folds John 10:16. We have always been in the time of the judgment of the living 1Cor.11:31, these in other folds, God knows who are his, if they don't come to the Adventist church, we make no judgment, God sees their hearts. The time will come when the Roman and Government systems will again produce the mark of the beast, at that time, the Kingdom will be available for those like the reformers to come out of the harlot systems and receive the Seal of God by coming to the Kingdom where the 144,000 and those with them are working from.

6. Paula, to make a statement regarding being saved by Grace alone, you ought to believe, "once saved always saved", in the which, it is the righteousness of Christ that makes us acceptable in the Eyes of God, nothing we do can make us saved, though we love to do and live right, it's not to be saved, but because we are saved!

7. Speaking of other teachings, since you know where these teachings came from, the reformation, you might like to know the prophecy that shows how God would establish them in the reformation?!

8. Again, the responsibility is in the revelation of these truths, however, God is not working to bring a whole lot of people into the Adventist church as it is determined to be lukewarm Rev.3:16, many not having received Jesus, therefore, there is many coming in through other influences, for one, man's teachings rather than God's. This is also evidenced through the reformation. The Lutheran church established a leadership, when John Knox came in with the truth of the Holy Spirit, the tares in the Lutheran leadership and the Catholic church didn't like this, the Lutherans believed they had all the truth since Luther taught righteousness by faith, they didn't want to see that the Holy Spirit meant something other than they had already known, hence rejection of the next reformatory truth. The truth of the Holy Spirit is an issue that may be discussed at another post, but the fact that it's a controversy that God used the reformation to show the truth on is something that one may investigate!

The fact that God is going to set up His Kingdom Dan.2:44 in the future, those that are living wheat among the Adventists, the 144,000 and those with them, will proclaim the Truth of all the doctrines that have been restored to Babylon during the mark of the beast for the wheat in the other systems to come out of her, or for the tares to receive Jesus and come to the Kingdom as well!

The next piece of information makes it appear that one that has received Jesus may reject Him! The actual truth is, that one may reject Jesus that has not received Him yet! Jesus is our forever friend, hence, forever, there is no loss to the one that has truly received Jesus as their Saviour, it's only sanctification subsequent reception, God will make sure of that Rev.3:19, Jesus told us that all that the Father has given Him, He will lose none!

The fact that there is false worship, Jesus said that they are worshipping Him in vain, therefore, they haven't really received Him though they claim to have!

You are stating when Jesus comes in the clouds, the saved are in the Kingdom, they have not gone through the plagues, but just as any are capable of doubting, so the saved will be capable of thinking that the event is amazing and have fear, or respect in their hearts, yes, Jesus will say, fear not, as I have told you, in my Father's house are many mansions, I have come to receive you unto myself!

-------------------------
In your next post: The identifying marks are for the witness of others, we are to be a light to each other and to the world! The identification to God is the reception of Jesus, the fact that we are saved by Grace, this is the righteousness of Christ, the keeping of the Commandments are due to our love for the Father and our faith in the perfect life of Jesus!

Regarding the remnant: John states the remnant keep the Commandments, as any of the reformatory leaderships, the Adventist leadership is determined to reject the latest light, the Investigative Judgment of the Living message or the Latter Rain Truth. The fact that the wheat and tares grow together till the, "harvest of our church, not the world", the harvest of the world is Babylon, during the mark of the beast. The remnant is therefore, the wheat within the Adventist church, not the church as a whole!

Yes, the issue of the Law of God is to be worldwide Rev.13 and 17 determine this as a fulfillment of prophecy to happen! Those currently among the wheat in Adventism will do that final call to come out of her my people, from the Kingdom Rev.11:15 and a multitude of other verses!

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