Mark of the Beast and Prophecies

Comment

Comment by Daniel on February 12, 2012 at 5:53am

i believe the mark involves worship

Comment by The Watchman on August 11, 2011 at 7:58pm

With all due respect, we do know what the Mark of the Beast is. It is false religion. We know who the beast is, and we know that he has his own law. His law is not only different from God in terms of the 4th commandment, but it has many differences. Including what was known as indulgences. You may argue all your quotes and scripture, but I will only quote one. The letter of the law brings death, but the spirit of the law brings life through Jesus Christ. It is the Spirit of Christ that is the antithesis of the Mark of the Beast. And it is anything that is contrary of the Spirit of Christ that is the Mark of the Beast, or the Antichrist. It is not correct to say that we will not know what the Mark of the Beast is until the Sunday law come. What will be made manifest is who receives the mark of the beast, not what it is. So go ahead and make all you quotes backed up with all your reasoning, but I will not bother to read it, because if you keep all the law and break one part of the law, you are still a transgressor of the law which is Christ.

 

As for you Stephen Billiter, I doubt if anyone will take the time to read your long winded articles. You should learn how to write for the Internet. It's not like writing a book, or a dissertation. Few people will bother to read through an article like that on the Internet.

 

When you buy a book and read it, it is because you went out and sought that book and paid for it. People don't come to the Internet to read a book. Do you sit for hours reading what pretty much amounts to a chapter in a book when you go to a website that was written by some nobody who wants to express his opinion? No way.

 

If you were a well known expert who many people considered an authority on a certain subject you might get some people to read articles like the ones you post. On the other hand, if you knew how to write for the Internet, you could get a lot of people to read a good portion of your article, and even bring some or many right to the convincing points that could sway their opinion.

Comment by lehcar on August 11, 2011 at 1:09am

The Mark of the Beast, what is it?  Are people of various denominational or non-Christian groups currently MARKED in their present lifestyle?  This is a question which has been divisive amongst SDA's.  Let's get out of "marking" people or people groups, God hasn't give us that mandate.  The mark of the beast will soon be made manifest when Sunday law becomes imposed.  NOT ANY EARLIER.

Comment by Stephen Billiter on September 12, 2009 at 9:37am

Recent Eugene Prewitt on Jeff Pippinger
http://www.bibledoc.org/test2/articles/categories/14/40

Fresh Concerns Related to the Recent Teachings of Jeff Pippenger

Several years ago I wrote a paper on the methods used by Jeff Pippenger to interpret the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation. That paper was more or less a critique of a book Jeff wrote long ago.

In that paper I commended Jeff for his respect for Ellen White, for his avoidance of time-setting, and for his great respect for the pioneers of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. All of these virtues are yet to be commended.

And I still recommend reading that paper (www.bibledoc.org). There I explain some of the inherent dangers in critiquing a man’s teachings when the man has the virtues just mentioned.

But to save time I will not rewrite my reasons for being hesitant to oppose Jeff’s teachings.

It is also fair to say that since the time that I wrote that paper that Jeff and I have corresponded via email. There have been a series of misunderstandings that have threatened to alienate Jeff and I even more than our doctrinal differences might. While Christian duty and courtesy demand that Jeff and I try to harmonize as Christian brothers, that duty is a private one. For everyone else the questions should take on a distinctly non-personal character.

In other words, the question should be, “Is Jeff correct? Or is Eugene correct? Or are they both wrong?” rather than “Is Jeff kind and sweet? Or is Eugene kind and sweet? Or as they both obnoxious?” The question of our character is one that can not well be evaluated at a distance and has always been a nearly useless one when judging the truthfulness of a proposition. (In other words, a Jehovah’s Witness might be very sweet and self-sacrificing and humble, and a Seventh-day Adventist might be coarse, suspicious, and exacting. And yet for all that, the Adventist would be right on many points where the Witness was in error.)

Recent Developments and Sources

Recently (December 2008) Jeff gave a series of prophecy lectures at an Ozark camp-meeting. As I have listened to this series I have realized that my earlier paper is inadequate. Jeff’s teachings have certainly progressed and so I offer this updated critique.

No one should lightly evaluate Jeff. His claims are too solemn for that. He believes he is teaching (with others) the present truth message. He believes the Latter Rain is the Spirit empowering the messages that he is teaching. This is no laughing matter. At least in the abstract, it is plausible. God did indeed, for example, send a message in 1888 that came with a power that was the beginning of the Latter Rain.

And if Jeff is right, then in opposing his special teachings I am opposing the Latter Rain. That would place me in a dangerous and utterly unenviable position.

So what am I saying? If you have heard Jeff’s teachings you owe it to yourself to love the truth enough to calmly study and slowly conclude. Do not let Jeff nor I nor an angel pressure you to decide before you have had time to prayerfully and thoughtfully weigh the evidence.

Here is some evidence to consider.

The Time of the End

Jeff teaches that the time of the end for Adventists began in 1989 at the fall of communism.

Is this a Biblical truth? Phrases that mean an equivalent of the “time of the end” occur ten times in Daniel (8:17; 8:19; 11:27; 11:35; 11:40; 12:4; 12:6; 12:8; 12:9; 12:13).

In these ten verses a few thoughts are shared repeatedly:

First, a section of the book of Daniel has been sealed until the time of the end (8:17; 12:4; 12:9; 12:13); then that section will be unsealed and understandable.
Second, the time of the end concludes a period of noted for persecution (8:17; 11:35; 12:7-8).
Third, the time in the phrase “time of the end” has been set or appointed to be at a certain time (8:19; 11:27; 11:35).

Affirming two of these points, Habakkuk 2:2-3, says the vision “is yet for an appointed time” and that “at the end, it shall speak.” There we are admonished to “wait for it” when it appears to tarry. So Adventist, on the basis of the teachings of Daniel unsealed “at the end”, were waiting for a fulfillment of the prophecy that appeared to “tarry.”

And Hebrews 10:35-39 shares what ought to be obvious, that what the early Adventist were waiting for was the Second Coming.

Taken together these twelve scriptures show the relation between the “time of the end” and the Second Coming. When the appointed “time of the end” arrives men are enabled to understand Daniel and are expected to conclude that Christ’s Coming is near. This is why Daniel 12:12-13 connects the special “waiting” of the Advent movement to the “speaking” of the vision at the end.

And this is why 2Th 2:2-3 warns first-century Christians not to be “shaken” in mind by any false epistle that might indicate that the Second Coming is near. Rather, “that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed.”

So the “time of the end” is that specified period of earth’s history when men can know that Christ is coming soon on the basis of the unsealed prophecies. Children can understand this.

Contrasting with these ideas is the thought that there are multiple times of the end. A simple truth (that Christ’s coming will not be “nigh” until the “time of the end”) that anyone can understand is replaced by a fuzzy one.

What happened in 1798, the beginning of the “time of the end”? Since 1798 light has been shining on Daniel 8-12 so that men can come to understand it by study just as they come to understand other never-sealed portions of the Bible.

This explains why Adventism rose at the time that it did. But add something to this profound Adventist idea and the waters are muddied. Are there two times of the end? Or more? Then are they all “appointed”? Then at which one is Daniel unsealed?

And while a dozen passages above combine to make a “rock solid” Adventist doctrine that is easy to locate on a time-line, easy to explain by making the visions of Daniel plain upon tables, which of the ten verses referring to the “time of the end” can be shown to mean something different or something more?

In his eighth Ozark lecture Jeff goes so far as to say that there is a “time of the end” for every generation. And on the basis of what, pray tell, scripture or testimony can we say something like that? The scripture is of no private interpretation. And the 1989 “time of the end” for Adventist is the one point that he wants us to remember in lecture eight.

The Time of the Latter Rain

We live during the time of the Latter Rain. On this Jeff and I are agreed. But did the time of the Latter Rain begin in 2001? The Bible testifies that the time of the Latter Rain corresponds with the time of the blotting out of sins. If we want to get even more specific than that, the times of “refreshing” in Acts 3:19 are the times when the sins of the righteous are blotted out.

And that period of time corresponds to the judgment that began in 1844. Indeed, the world could have ended in the 1860’s, and again in the 1890’s. And the Latter Rain abortively began to fall in 1888. And all these things confirm what is implied in the statement below, namely that Ellen White could say in her own life time, “now”, “in these last days” is the time to look for the promised Latter Rain. We have been in the times of the Latter Rain since 1844 and since that time men have been bidden to pray earnestly for that gift.

So it may be now. Let Christians put away all dissension and give themselves to God for the saving of the lost. Let them ask in faith for the promised blessing, and it will come. The outpouring of the Spirit in the days of the apostles was "the former rain," and glorious was the result. But the latter rain will be more abundant. What is the promise to those living in these last days? "Turn you to the stronghold, ye prisoners of hope: even today do I declare that I will render double unto thee." "Ask ye of the Lord rain in the time of the latter rain; so the Lord shall make bright clouds, and give them showers of rain, to every one grass in the field." Zechariah 9:12; 10:1.128 {CCh 98.6}

But Jeff places the time of the Latter Rain as beginning in 2001. But since we both agree that we are now in the time of the Latter Rain, that point is not as significant as the next one.

The Timing of Revelation 18:1-3

The Fourth Angel’s Message , the Loud Cry, will lighten the earth with its glory. Ellen White comments on this event:

"Now comes the word that I have declared that New York is to be swept away by a tidal wave. This I have never said. I have said, as I looked at the great buildings going up there, story after story: 'What terrible scenes will take place when the Lord shall arise to shake terribly the earth! Then the words of Revelation 18:1-3 will be fulfilled.' The whole of the eighteenth chapter of Revelation is a warning of what is coming on the earth. But I have no light in particular in regard to what is coming on New York, only I know that one day the great buildings there will be thrown down by the turning and overturning of God's power. From the light given me, I know that destruction is in the world. One word from the Lord, one touch of His mighty power, and these massive structures will fall. Scenes will take place the fearfulness of which we cannot imagine." {LS 411.5}

Let us observe this statement for a moment.

What will the Lord do? He will “arise to shake terribly the earth.” What will happen next? The words of Revelation 18:1-3 will be fulfilled.

What will happen in New York City? The “great buildings there” will be thrown down by the “turning and overturning of God’s power.”

Now the timing of these things is vital to the purpose of this study. Jeff sees in this statement reason to connect Revelation 18 to the date 9-11-01.

But when will it be that the Lord will arise “to shake terribly the earth”? This terrible shaking of the earth precedes the fulfillment of Revelation 18:1-3, and the whole of the chapter. And when does the Lord arise to “shake terribly the earth?” This happens, interestingly, in connection with the universal Sunday Law.

The substitution of the laws of men for the law of God, the exaltation, by merely human authority, of Sunday in place of the Bible Sabbath, is the last act in the drama. When this substitution becomes universal, God will reveal Himself. He will arise in His majesty to shake terribly the earth. He will come out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the world for their iniquity, and the earth shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain. --Testimonies, vol. 7, p. 141. {ChS 160.2}

Is 2:19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

In short, when the Sunday law becomes universal then it will be true that Babylon will have become the habitation of every unclean and hateful birds, then it will be that the earth will be lighted with the glory of the Lord, and a Loud Cry will go forward.

Jeff has a lot to say about the first of the two statements above, however. He connects the collapse of the world trade center with the fulfillment of Revelation 18 and, if I am not mistaken, makes this connection a test of one’s prophetic legitimacy.

Yet the connection seems, in terms of simple timing, to be wholly a false conjecture that reasons that since buildings fell in NYC that the prophecy was fulfilled.

It wouldn’t be fair, however, in my opinion, to hold Jeff to his statement that if this point is in error, then he is into deep fanaticism and those that follow him are also. A man may be mistaken even in his accidental self-condemnations.

The Only Way to Warn the World

We have a message to take to the world. In a thousand different ways God calls on us to use our talents to do this work. Jeff has apparently been criticized (I have never heard such criticism, only I have heard Jeff respond to it) for having a non-evangelism-oriented ministry.

I am not one to say that every ministry must be evangelism oriented, so I would not level this criticism at Jeff. But I am very concerned with how Jeff responds to it. He quotes the following powerful statement from Ellen White.

The work of the Holy Spirit is to convince the world of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment. The world can only be warned by seeing those who believe the truth sanctified through the truth, acting upon high and holy principles, showing in a high, elevated sense, the line of demarcation between those who keep the commandments of God and those who trample them under their feet. The sanctification of the Spirit signalizes the difference between those who have the seal of God and those who keep a spurious rest day. {7BC 980.8}
When the test comes, it will be clearly shown what the mark of the beast is. It is the keeping of Sunday. Those who, after having heard the truth, continue to regard this day as holy bear the signature of the man of sin, who thought to change times and laws (Letter 12, 1900). {7BC 980.9}

Quoting this is great. This statement is like many others that Ellen White has written. I think of the one in Ministry of Healing where she writes:

It is our own character and experience that determine our influence upon others. In order to convince others of the power of Christ's grace, we must know its power in our own hearts and lives. The gospel we present for the saving of souls must be the gospel by which our own souls are saved. Only through a living faith in Christ as a personal Saviour is it possible to make our influence felt in a skeptical world. If we would draw sinners out of the swift-running current, our own feet must be firmly set upon the Rock, Christ Jesus. {MH 469.3}

The idea that our character determines the influence that we carry, this is a profound truth.

The original statement, quoted by Jeff, takes the principle to its logical conclusion. Those that are sealed, who have the character of Jesus, will be plainly different from those with the mark of the beast.

But the idea that “only” a character contrast can make our work effective must not be read as if we the world will be warned without evangelism by the character contrast.

Personal sharing of the truth with unbelievers is one the very means chosen by God to develop in us the character needed to give a proper warning to the world. The fact is that the world only sees that holy character when we are in the field meeting the wordlings.

The 2520

I have written a separate paper on the 2,520 year prophecy that is directly related to the teachings of Jeff Pippenger. That article is available at www.bibledoc.org.

The Fall of Babylon

In one of his lectures on Revelation 18 Jeff early mentions that Adventist in the end of time will understand the fall of Babylon. This he immediately explains to be the “judgment” on Babylon, the “execution” and punishment of that power.

That the word “fallen” can be used this way it should be readily admitted. It is used in a manner similar to this in Revelation 17:10.

But that the word can be used in other ways should also be admitted. It is used to describe a spiritual fall, a loss of moral strength or standing, in Revelation 2:10.

Re 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

That the latter sense is to be understood by “is fallen, is fallen” has been established by Ellen White and attested by the pioneers. Observe in the following statements from the Great Controversy how the Catholic church fell, and then the Protestant bodies fell. The recent fall of Protestantism was announced in 1844 and in view of the fact that Babylon is already “fallen” men are called leave her so as not to receive “of her plagues.”

Babylon is said to be "the mother of harlots." By her daughters must be symbolized churches that cling to her doctrines and traditions, and follow her example of sacrificing
the truth and the approval of God, in order to form an unlawful alliance with the world. The message of Revelation 14, announcing the fall of Babylon must apply to religious bodies that were once pure and have become corrupt. Since this message follows the warning of the judgment, it must be given in the last days; therefore it cannot refer to the Roman Church alone, for that church has been in a fallen condition for many centuries. Furthermore, in the eighteenth chapter of the Revelation the people of God are called upon to come out of Babylon. According to this scripture, many of God's people must still be in Babylon. And in what religious bodies are the greater part of the followers of Christ now to be found? Without doubt, in the various churches professing the Protestant faith. At the time of their rise these churches took a noble stand for God and the truth, and His blessing was with them. Even the unbelieving world was constrained to acknowledge the beneficent results that followed an acceptance of the principles of the gospel. In the words of the prophet to Israel: "Thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through My comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord God." But they fell by the same desire which was the curse and ruin of Israel--the desire of imitating the practices and courting the friendship of the ungodly. "Thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown." Ezekiel 16:14, 15. {GC 382.3}

"I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird." "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." Revelation 18:1, 2, 4. {GC 603.1}
This scripture points forward to a time when the announcement of the fall of Babylon, as made by the second angel of Revelation 14 (verse 8), is to be repeated, with the additional mention of the corruptions which have been entering the various organizations that constitute Babylon, since that message was first given, in the summer of 1844. A terrible condition of the religious world is here described. With every rejection of truth the minds of the people will become darker, their hearts more stubborn, until they are entrenched in an infidel hardihood. In defiance of the warnings which God has given, they will continue to trample upon one of the precepts of the Decalogue, until they are led to persecute those who hold it sacred. Christ is set at nought in the contempt placed upon His word and His people. As the teachings of spiritualism are accepted by the churches, the restraint imposed upon the carnal heart is removed, and the profession of religion will become a cloak to conceal the basest iniquity. A belief in spiritual manifestations opens the door to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils, and thus the influence of evil angels will be felt in the churches. {GC 603.2}
Of Babylon, at the time brought to view in this prophecy, it is declared: "Her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities." Revelation 18:5. She has filled up the measure of her guilt, and destruction is about to fall upon her. But God still has a people in Babylon; and before the visitation of His judgments these faithful ones must be called out, that they partake not of her sins and "receive not of her plagues." Hence the movement symbolized by the angel coming down from heaven, lightening the earth with his glory and crying mightily with a strong voice, announcing the sins of Babylon. In connection with his message the call is heard: "Come out of her, My people." These announcements, uniting with the third angel's message, constitute the final warning to be given to the inhabitants of the earth. {GC 604.1}

Only once have I heard Jeff speak of Babylon’s fall as being the judgments on Babylon. It may be that this is not a hallmark of his teaching. It may have been a slip, an anomaly. And as the Bible indicates that we ought not to condemn a man for a “word” Is 29:21, I advise no one to reject Pippenger’s teachings generally on the basis of this. On the other hand, I advise everyone to reject this particular incident of teaching as untrue.

Conclusion

In my first article I argued that Jeff uses unreliable methods in the interpretation of prophecy. Yet, I suggested, he borrows most of his conclusions from the pioneers and so generally concludes correctly.

Now I reverse the latter of these assessments. The most recent teachings, regarding 1989 and 2001 and the Loud Cry and the Latter Rain, are faulty conclusions. And to this end faulty methods will, it must be admitted, typically lead. There are other concerns, other doctrinal issues, that could be addressed. But these are the center, Jeff and I are agreed. And so they are addressed.

-- Eugene Prewitt
April 3, 2009

Comment by Stephen Billiter on September 12, 2009 at 6:14am

Lest anyone read my post on Jeff Pippinger and think it is my writing, it is not.It is that of Eugene Prewitt, a well published author and commentator who also has sermons on Audioverse, the GYC website.I have read much of Prewitt's work and I am in agreement with his summations. Due to the length, there is three sequential posts on this topic and one would need to start at part one.
This and other articles and study guides by Eugene Prewitt can be found on this web location:

http://www.bibledoc.org/test2/articles/categories/14/10

Comment by Stephen Billiter on September 12, 2009 at 5:54am

Pippinger Part three

I am filled with sadness when I think of our condition as a people. The Lord has not closed heaven to us, but our own course of continual backsliding has separated us from God. Pride, covetousness, and love of the world have lived in the heart without fear of banishment or condemnation.... The church has turned back from following Christ her Leader and is steadily retreating toward Egypt.... Have we not been seeking the friendship and applause of the world rather than the presence of Christ and a deeper knowledge of His will? Ibid., vol. 5, 217-218.
The plagues upon Egypt when God was about to deliver Israel were similar in character to those more terrible and extensive judgments which are to fall upon the world just before the final deliverance of God's people. The Great Controversy, 627-628.
Many are not growing strong, because they do not take God at His Word. They are conforming to the world. Every day they pitch their tents nearer to Egypt, when they should encamp a day's march nearer the heavenly Canaan. Signs of The Times, March 6, 1884.
The Lord God of Israel is to execute judgment upon the gods of this world, as upon the gods of Egypt. Manuscript Releases, vol. 10, 240.
Though close in identity, "south" and "Egypt" are still two different words. If Egypt represented no other symbol or figure or type in the Scriptures then it would always follow that Egypt represented the characteristics of a defiant Pharaoh. However, Egypt is more often used to symbolize the world than it is used to symbolize atheism. The context of the passage under consideration points out that the next step for the Papacy, after passage of the Sunday law in the United States, is to move against the countries of the world. This is of course what Revelation and the Spirit of Prophecy teach will happen. Egypt is not Communism; Egypt is the world:
[JP has revealed his fundamental hermeneutic. From the Bible and the SOP he learns what will happen. (10 points for this step.) Then he brings this knowledge to Daniel 11 and to other Bible stories and searches for evidence to prove what he learned in step 1. (zero points for this step.) Searching for “evidence”, even to prove a truth, tends to create false evidences. We do not want false evidences to prove true points.
This principle of find-parallels-to-prove-truth makes challenging JP challenging. His method, though imaginative and creative, can not be attacked without appearing to attack the truth.
But it also makes his work dangerous. It teaches men to suspend their own judgment. It produces a mass of weak matter instead of a core of strong matter – and this is calculated to weaken the power of the truth, bringing to the structure wood, hay and stubble.
In the current passage, read verses 41-44. Does it read as if Egypt is the whole world? Or as if it is part of the world? This common-sense approach, noting what the passage says, has worth. And when JP emphasizes that Egypt is a “geographical location” and then proves that it represents wordliness (for that is what it is in the Spirit of Prophecy quotes given), what is he doing? Is the church back-sliding to a geographic location?]
How art thou fallen from heaven, 0 Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Isaiah 14:12-14.
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? Revelation 13:4.
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:4.
Ever since his fall, Satan has been at work to establish himself as ruler of this earth. Review and Herald, March 9, 1886.
[Did JP just show that the king of the North is trying to become the king of Egypt? Who is King of Egypt before Egypt is taken?]
Sister White many times used the illustration of the joining of hands to symbolize agreement with the Papacy. This verse says he will stretch out his hand to the world (Egypt). The world, of course, has many countries, and they will all conform to Rome, for it states that the countries will not escape.
The Second Escape
The word escape in this passage has a little different meaning from the word escape in the previous verse. The last verse spoke of slipping out of his hand to be saved, or preserved. In this verse escape conveys the meaning of not finding any deliverance from the iron fist of Rome:
escape-6413: tem. of 6412; deliverance; concr. an escaped portion: -deliverance, (that is) escape (-d), remnant. 6412: a refugee: -(that have) escape (-d, -th), fugitive. Strong's.
Is this order of events consistent with Adventist understanding? Does the United States, the glorious land, first submit to a Sunday law and then the world follows after? Yes:
[Note carefully this logic: “Does my conclusion about the meaning of this word support standard Adventist understanding of the end?” The question appeals to the plausibility of the interpretation as evidence of its accuracy. It reminds me, in this respect, very much of the writings of other persons in the past who, by a strong expression of confidence, somehow persuaded listeners that they must have a good point.]. . .
We see upon this beast ten horns which signify pagan Rome, and we also see seven heads with crowns signifying the seven kingdoms which brought about during the transition to papal Rome by the removal of removing the three Arian horns in order to give place to the Papacy.
[This is an interesting, but not-so-standard interpretation of the seven heads. I would ask JP, which of these seven heads receives a deadly wound? And why are there not eight heads? What you say next is more standard, but do you intend to say that the seven heads have two very different interpretations?] . . .
Revelation 13-The Healing of the Beast
The first beast of Revelation 13 is a description of a mortally wounded papal Rome. It describes a transition which takes place as the next world power arrives on the scene of history, and also the transition which takes place when the deadly wound is healed.
As John viewed the composite beast of Revelation 13, he saw within the five characteristics of the beast, the progression of world kingdoms as set forth in the book of Daniel, in reverse, for John was looking back into history.
[Woah, JP. This is the limit. You virtually say that when prophets write about past events they do it in backwards chronological order. Then is Jesus translated before he is born, and born before the church is expecting?
The problem here is that you are not starting with a prophetic statement about why the beast is said to be leopard-like. It would be more sensible to say that it is most like Greece, and hence that is mentioned first. Greek does tend to use word-order to indicate importance.] . . .
When we began our study of Revelation 17 we prophetically located the prophet John in history. We saw that he was taken to the close of the 1260 years of papal reign. This was ascertained by the fact that when he was taken into the wilderness, the whore was already drunk.
At the close of this time period there were five kingdoms of Bible prophecy which had fallen. The first empire was Babylon, the second Medo-Persia, the third Greece, the fourth pagan Rome, and the fifth was papal Rome. Yet, was not papal Rome still a kingdom shortly before 1798?
Technically, yes. However, prophetically, Daniel had already set an example concerning kingdoms which had almost left the scene of history. Daniel 8 begins with the description of Medo-Persia, even though Babylon was still a Kingdom when Daniel received the vision. Babylon was not listed in the vision of Daniel 8, for it had already reached the end of its significance in prophecy. The same prophetic principle applies in Revelation 17:10. Papal Rome still existed shortly before 1798, but it was at the end of its power.
[This is a fine suggestion of how to solve the difficulty of “five kings” being fallen during the time that “John” was in the wilderness. But if we don’t assume that the blood of the million martyrs under Innocent the III was insufficient to intoxicate the papacy, we don’t even get “near” 1798 before she is drunk.] . . .
First, the United States forms an image to the beast, then the entire world does so. The world therefore must form and empower a world government which supersedes the sovereignty of nations in order to fulfill the definition of the image of the beast. To compel the consciences of people through civil government, you must by definition and logic have a civil government.
[This logic is not sound. 230 nations compelling the conscience would fulfill the specifications of the prophecy just fine.] . . .
[The “was and is not” of Rev 17:11 also gives you a hint at timing, that this is after 1798, not before as indicated earlier. It is one thing to not mention Babylon in Daniel 8; but it is quite another to say plainly that the beast “is not” in Rev 17.] . . .
The United States is the power which will force the whole world into making an image to the beast, and thus into accepting the confederacy of the ten kings:
Eight people went into the ark, and were symbolically resurrected to a new earth. After six thousand years of sin, the earth will have a thousand years of rest before it is resurrected anew to begin the eighth millennium. Christ was resurrected the day after the Sabbath, which is the eighth day, so to speak.
[JP sounds like Justin Martyr here. He had a lot to say about the “eighth day.” And… the eight persons are resurrected? The eighth millennium? God arranged so that only eight people would get on the ark? The first thousand years of the new earth represents the final phase of the papacy? This whole “eight” thing seems just imaginary. Is it possible that the Bible records the number of people in the ark so that we would know that “few”, that is “eight” persons were saved from the flood? (See 1Pe 3:20.)] . . .
Eight Represents Resurrection
The mystery beast, which is the eighth head, is the Papacy. It is of the seven, for it was the fifth. In contrast to the other six, it is identified as being dead. It is the head that is resurrected, as symbolized by the number eight.

[This graph represents the number of times the KJV uses the numbers 1 thought 19. It shows mathematically that, with the exceptions of 7 and 12, all numbers are used just as would be expected in a book on any secular topic, a book where numbers represented no hidden messages. The number ten is higher in use because of the useful habit of rounding. This tendency to round also explains why “five” is slightly higher than the curve would predict. Which numbers show up more than chance would predict? Just seven and twelve. Without a statement from a prophet giving special significance to some other number we ought to resist our tendency to look for a symbol in a number which can be understood literally. This was one of Miller’s rules of interpretation – to read literally unless context demanded that an item be understood figuratively.]
The Final Transition
Connected with the beasts of Rome, there is always a story of a transition which takes place. The mystery beast and the whore describe of the healing of the deadly wound. It is a description of the Papacy's return to her position as a religious-political kingdom. This transition takes place when the powers which were lost in 1798 are resurrected:
As we approach the last crisis, it is of vital moment that harmony and unity exist among the Lord's instrumentalities. The world is filled with storm and war and variance. Yet under one head-the papal power-the people will unite to oppose God in the person of His witnesses. This union is cemented by the great apostate. Testimonies, vol. 7, 182.
The Sequence of Events
The sequence of kingdoms, as set forth in the description of John in Revelation 17:10, is the identical sequence of events which Daniel 11:40-45 identifies.
First, the enemy (atheism), which gave the deadly wound, would be overcome as the first wall is removed.
Then the United States, the head which existed when John received the vision of Revelation 17, would form an image to the beast at the passage of a national Sunday law. Thus the king of the north enters the glorious land, as the wall of separation between church and state is removed.
Then the king of the north brings Egypt under his control. Egypt, symbolizing the world, is represented by John as a world confederacy of ten kings, or the seventh head. Through pressure from the United States, they form a confederacy, erect their own image of the beast, and remove the wall of national sovereignty:
The spirits of devils will go forth to the kings of the earth and to the whole world, to fasten them in deception, and urge them on to unite with Satan in his last struggle against the government of Heaven. By these agencies, rulers and subjects will be alike deceived. The Great Controversy, 624.
[Check out the chapter this quote is taken from. It is the Time of Trouble, after the close of probation, the time arrived at in the first words of Daniel 12:1.] . . .
Rich and Poor
Ancient Egypt had two neighbors who had interesting histories. The Libyans, to the west of Egypt, lived on the fringe of the desert, and throughout their history cast a longing eye toward Egypt and the fertile Nile valley. They attempted to invade Egypt several times, but were repulsed. Modem Egypt symbolizes the world, and Libya symbolizes what we call today the Third World-the poor, downtrodden countries that long to move up to the standards of the affluent Western World. But who was Ethiopia?
[So how has JP showed us the meaning of Libya? He has given us an unreferenced summary of ancient history. Is his audience expected to just believe something like this? There are two Hebrew words used for the Libyans, one often translated Put, and one often translated Lubim. Stories exist of these groups from whom we could learn, Biblically, their characteristics as we did from Egypt. These with the Ethiopians, below, are often confederate against God’s people in scripture. But the idea of the wealth and poverty of these bodies is not a scriptural idea. Can we say that it is reliable, or that we ought to use it interpretively? Does that still allow the Bible to interpret itself?] . . . .
Following is Eugene Prewitt’s commentary on just a few other materials of Jeff Pippenger found online.
http://remnantprophecy.sdaglobal.org/Remnant-Prophecy/endtimeJP/end-time3.htm
In the material at the above URL JP seems to ignore EGW’s strong testimony regarding the use to be made (or not made) of her EW statement on the daily. Haskell used the statement in the same way as JP uses it here and was rebuked. How can JP ignore this?
I have words to speak to my brethren east and west, north and south. I request that my writings shall not be used as the leading argument to settle questions over which there is now so much controversy. I entreat of Elders H, I, J, and others of our leading brethren, that they make no reference to my writings to sustain their views of "the daily." {1SM 164.1}
It has been presented to me that this is not a subject of vital importance. I am instructed that our brethren are making a mistake in magnifying the importance of the difference in the views that are held. I cannot consent that any of my writings shall be taken as settling this matter. The true meaning of "the daily" is not to be made a test question. {1SM 164.2}
I now ask that my ministering brethren shall not make use of my writings in their arguments regarding this question ["the daily"]; for I have had no instruction on the point under discussion, and I see no need for the controversy. Regarding this matter under present conditions, silence is eloquence. {1SM 164.3}
The enemy of our work is pleased when a subject of minor importance can be used to divert the minds of our brethren from the great questions that should be the burden of our message. As this is not a test question, I entreat of my brethren that they shall not allow the enemy to triumph by having it treated as such. {1SM 164.4}

http://temcat.com/prophetic-history/waymarksb.htm
I have people give me mild rebukes or strong rebukes that I spent too much time looking at what’s going on in Catholicism or in Spiritualism or in the political world—God would have us study these events and compare them with prophecy in order that we would understand that we’re living in the last days. If you’re studying the events and you’re comparing them with prophecies—you know you’re in the last days. You know you’re here! It’s easy to present prophecy to God’s people today because if you got to speak next Sabbath on prophecy to God’s people, all you have to do is go down and get a weeks worth of papers before Sabbath and on the front page you’re going to have information you can weave your presentation around because it’s being fulfilled every day….
[“Meat in due season” is not found in the papers. But this paragraph gives an insight to Jeff’s mode of thinking regarding prophetic interpretation. Compare to:
Flowery discourses will not be sufficient to feed the soul of the famishing child of God. The following desire will give a voice to the longing of many a heart that is fed on what are called "smart sermons." An intelligent man remarked, "O that my pastor would give me something besides pretty flowers, and brilliant periods, and intellectual treats! My soul is famishing for the Bread of Life. I long for something simple and nourishing and scriptural." Daniel Webster gave utterance to these forcible words: "If clergymen in our day would return to the simplicity of gospel truth, and preach more to individuals and less to the crowd, there would not be so much complaint of the decline of true religion. Many of the ministers of the present day take their text from St. Paul, and preach from the newspapers. When they do so, I prefer to enjoy my own thoughts, rather than listen. I want my pastor to come to me in the Spirit of the gospel, saying, `You are mortal. Your probation is brief, your work must be done speedily. . . . You are hastening to the bar of God. The Judge standeth before the door.'"--RH June 23, 1891. {PaM 188.1}]
When we are purified when every sin and stain is gone, God is going to bring the Sunday Law test that will bring us into a position where we receive the Seal of God corporately. All that have prepared for the Seal of God corporately will receive it; this will be the group that then receives the Latter Rain without measure in order to proclaim the Loud Cry message to those people that are in Babylon and the rest of the world.
[We need to understand the sealing message! For evidence, in the form of sincere Bible study, on how men are sealed, email me. It isn’t done corporately.]
"I was shown that if God's people make no efforts on their part, but wait for the refreshing to come upon them and remove their wrongs and correct their errors; if they depend upon that to cleanse them from filthiness of the flesh and spirit, and fit them to engage in the loud cry of the third angel, they will be found wanting. The refreshing or power of God comes only on those who have prepared themselves for it by doing the work which God bids them, namely, cleansing themselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." Counsels on Diet and Foods, 33….
We’re looking at the ‘waymarks’, historical events that are ahead of us; the Latter Rain, the refreshing. Immediately at the Sunday Law, God’s church is purified, we receive the Seal of God and the Latter Rain is poured out upon us. This empowers us to not only stand through the time of trouble, but it empowers us to give the Loud Cry message. The Loud Cry message and the Latter Rain can’t be separated from one another but they are distinct waymarks; one is the message, one is the presence of the Holy Spirit with power in our life, in our experience….
[Reader, Jesus is sitting currently as a “refiner and purifier of silver,” refining the sons Levi. This is the time when the church is being purified. The shaking precedes, so a significant extent, the persecution. It is the purity of the church that brings on the wrath of Satan. It is the preaching of the Laodicean message that brings on the shaking.]
I’ve read an Adventist book before that says that Satan’s miracles take place after the close of probation, which doesn’t make any kind of logical sense anyway—but in this last quote she is very clear that Satan continues his wonders until the close of probation. Prophetic fulfillment of his miraculous deceptions begin at the Sunday Law, and increases and develops until the close of human probation. This is the time period that unfolds at the Sunday law; this is a historical event—a waymark. This begins at the Sunday Law….
[JP says that it “doesn’t make any king of logical sense anyway.” But just reading the sixth plague in Revelation 16 will make it as clear as the day that Satan works many of his most frightful miracles after probation closes for the purpose of driving God’s people from their faithfulness, and for the purpose of gathering the lost to the battle of Armageddon.]
Re 16:12-14 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Comment by Stephen Billiter on September 12, 2009 at 5:53am

Pippinger Part two, By Eugene Prewitt,
http://www.bibledoc.org/test2/articles/categories/14/10

This overwhelming attack came with the military and economic aid of the United States. This alliance repeats the history of Clovis, when "arms shall stand on his part." It points to Revelation 13, teaching that soon the United States will speak as a dragon, and then force the world to also form an image to the beast. Daniel 11:40 is the first historical manifestation of this end-time unholy alliance. . . .
The rush to freedom in Eastern Europe is a sweet victory for John Paul II. Ibid.
The word rush is the verb used to describe the spread of this freedom. He shall overflow, (rush), and pass through. The word pushed was chosen by this secular author to describe the battle that Communism was waging against Catholicism. The king of the south pushed against the king of the north.
[Wait, wait, JP. The word “rush” isn’t in Daniel 11. The word is “over-flow” and you picked one translation out of about ten, one less common or justified than the words in the text. But worse than this, you now quote an article about the rush of East-European nations and show it as a fulfulment of a prophecy about a “rush” of the Catholic church to help them. Who was prophesied to overflow?]
Of all the events that have shaken the Soviet bloc in 1989, none is more fraught with history-or more implausible- than the polite encounter to take place this week in Vatican City. There, in the spacious ceremonial library of the 16th century Apostolic Palace, the czar of world atheism, Mikhail Gorbachev, will visit the Vicar of Christ, Pope John Paul 11
The moment will be electric, not only because John Paul helped inflame the fervor for freedom in his Polish homeland that swept like brush fire across Eastern Europe. Beyond that, the meeting of the two men symbolizes the end of the 20th century's most dramatic spiritual war, a conflict in which the seemingly irresistible force of Communism battered against the immovable object of Christianity. Time, December 4, 1989.
While Gorbachev's hands-off policy was the immediate cause of the chain reaction of liberty that has swept through Eastern Europe in the past few months, John Paul deserves much of the longer-range credit. Ibid.
The word is swept, and the definition for come against like a whirlwind is to sweep away. The author views this event as putting an end to the twentieth century's most dramatic spiritual war, without even knowing of the spiritual war between the king of the south and the king of the north. This author also identifies Gorbachev as the czar of world atheism as opposed to being identified as the czar of world Communism. Secular authors recognize Communism as atheism.
[Though they are spelled similarly, there is quite a difference between “swept away” and “swept through.” And more than that, it is “liberty” that “swept through” while it is Catholicism that “swept away.” JP is weakening even his good conclusions with low-quality data. This playing with words to make things fit also makes things unreliable.] . . .
The Man of Sin's Deadly Wound
Adding here a thought outside the scope of this particular study, Revelation says that the Vatican received a deadly wound which would be healed. It received that wound when Napoleon captured the pope in 1798, the time of the end. Is it an accident that the pope who is guiding the efforts of the northern kingdom at the time when the southern kingdom is swept away, received a physical deadly wound himself?
[Yes. To say anything else is speculative. And that is negative.]
It is of interest that it was this same king of the south, Communism, which allegedly ordered the king of the north, the pope, to be killed. Also interesting is the fact that this northern king is the first pope in history whose name adds up to the number 666. (See this equation at the end of a visit to Italy, the first face-to-face encounter between leaders of this chapter.):
[So the 666 pope has died. What do we make of that?] . . .
The "glorious land" is a land where God chose to allow the last message of mercy to develop in its infancy in 1844, and finally to mature into the loud cry of Revelation 18.
The "glorious land" is not the "glorious holy mountain" of verse 45. A land and a mountain are different. Just as ancient Israel was provided a land to prosper and to present the message to the world, so modern Israel also has been provided an asylum to do the same work in a modern setting.
[It is fair for JP to state that this is his position, that the glorious holy mountain is not a prominent feature of the glorious land. But let him not prove that it is so by saying that it is.]
In verse 40 the word countries is in the original, and points to the different countries making up the former U.S.S.R., but in verse 41 the word countries is supplied. So in view of this fact, when the king of the north enters the United States through the passage of a national Sunday law, many shall be overthrown, not many countries.
[Literally, the word is “many things.” Countries, or institutions, but not persons. I am making an informed guess here regarding the gender of the word.]
Those overthrown are the ones who come into the clasp of the iron hand of Rome by accepting the national Sunday law. Those who escape are those responding to the beginning of the loud-cry message under the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, which begins in earnest when the national Sunday law is passed. I am not suggesting that the latter rain does not begin shortly before the passage of the national Sunday law, but that it intensifies greatly at that time, as God's people recognize the long-awaited fulfillment of the prophecies. Edom, Ammon, and Moab symbolize those who begin to respond to this last message of mercy.
[You just have not given any evidence, JP, that this is truly what the verse means. You seem to reason like this: “This is what happens, so this must be what it means.” And that, of course, is not a sound principle of interpretation.] . . .
He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
After sweeping through the domain of the king of the south, the king of the north now enters his next geographical area. This time though, instead of gaining a complete domination, a group is identified which escape from his hand. First, let us identify the glorious land.
[At this point neither the King of the South nor the King of the North is being interpreted as a geographical area by JP. They are both, like Israel, being treated as spiritual bodies with the characteristics of ancient Egypt, Babylon, Israel. But he says “next geographical area.”] . . .
America,. . . where the greatest light from Heaven has been shining upon the people, can become the place of greatest peril and darkness because the people do not continue to practice the truth and walk in the light. Selected Messages, book 3, 387.
The glorious or goodly land was Palestine for ancient Israel, and it is the United States for modem Israel. The purpose of Palestine and the United States was the same for both ancient and modern Israel. God has watched over His church and the land where He settled them that the truth might be fully proclaimed to the world.
[The reader should understand the logic of this section. JP has well proven from Inspiration that the USA is a favored nation prepared as an asylum for his people, as a place where the truth could be developed and practiced.
But the fact that the interpretation of the goodly land being the USA is, for this reason, plausible, is the largest “evidence” that has been given for this position. On the other hand, the first correlation of Jeremiah 3 via Ellen White with the USA seems to be a good piece of evidence.
Until you check into it. Go ahead, look up ST 6-12-1893. Read the article. See if you find any allusion to Jeremiah 3. Then go further, note the interpretation of 2Th 2 in this EGW article. Is Satan sitting in the temple of God today showing himself that he is God? And if “yes”, what is that temple? Does this have an impact on how we understand Daniel 11:45?]
Hand Signs
Two characteristics prominent in the final movements of the king of the north are the clasping of hands, and the marching, or steps, or treading. The walking or marching, and the clasping of hands are spiritual terms employed by both Daniel and the Spirit of Prophecy which add to the continuity of this prophecy:
[With Daniel it isn’t “clasping of hands.” It is “stretching out of hands,” apparently in oppression and conquest, agreeable with the common metaphorical use (see Strongs) of the word, “power.” But are readers expected to not notice this? And in Daniel 11, it is the papacy that “stretches out” its hand, or power, “upon the countries.” But in the following statements, who is stretching out a hand?]
When our nation shall so abjure the principles of its government as to enact a Sunday law, Protestantism will in this act join hands with popery. Testimonies, vol. 5, 712.
How the Roman Church can clear herself from the charge of idolatry we cannot see. . . . And this is the religion which Protestants are beginning to look upon with so much favor, and which will eventually be united with Protestantism. This union will not, however, be effected by a change in Catholicism; for Rome never changes. She claims infallibility. It is Protestantism that will change. The adoption of liberal ideas on its part will bring it where it can clasp the hand of Catholicism. Review and Herald, June 1, 1886.
The Protestants of the United States will be foremost in stretching their hands across the gulf to grasp the hand of Spiritualism; they will reach over the abyss to clasp hands with the Roman power; and under the influence of this threefold union, this country will follow in the steps of Rome in trampling on the rights of conscience. The Great Controversy, 588. . . .
As the Sabbath has become the special point of controversy throughout Christendom, and religious and secular authorities have combined to enforce the observance of the Sunday, the persistent refusal of a small minority to yield to the popular demand will make them objects of universal execration. Ibid., 615.
Prophetically, the focus is on all Christendom. The symbols associated with the prophetic testimony of this time period of earth's history should be understood within the context of Christendom. See Testimonies, vol. 9, 16. The main group of people to respond to the final message of mercy comes from Christendom.
[Is JP saying something regarding missions? His last sentence is odd indeed, unlike the interesting phrase “supposed to be heathen” quoted a page earlier. Of course it is obvious that non-Christian nations will not be arguing about Sunday vs Sabbath, and that is the point of GC 615 above. But when miracles begin to happen on national scales, all the world will become “Christian.” And that makes this point mute.] . . .
In that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off. Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim. But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.
And the LORD shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod. And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt. Isaiah 11:10-16.
The Sabbath Banner
The previous passage teaches that the Lord is going to lift up an ensign, or banner for the whole world to see. This banner is the Sabbath.
[Dear reader: Read the passage, the first verse, slowly. What is the ensign? And so it is that Jesus said “And I, when I be lifted up, will draw all men unto me.”
Now it is true that the Sabbath is a special banner, in metaphor, in the end of time. Many symbols are used in several ways like this in scripture. The lion, for example, represents Babylon, Jesus, and the Devil. To say that because the Sabbath is a “banner” in the statements below that it is the “ensign” in Isaiah 11, when the first verse says plainly that the “root of Jessi” is the “ensign” is not wise.]
ensign-5251: from 5264; a flag; also a sail; by impl. a flagstaff; gen. a signal; fig. a token: -banner, pole, sail, (en-)sign, standard. 5264: to gleam from afar, i.e. to be conspicuous as a signal; to raise a beacon: lift up as an ensign, standard bearer. Strong's.
It is at this time that the true Sabbath must be brought before the people both by pen and by voice. As the fourth commandment of the Decalogue and those who observe it are ignored and despised, the faithful few know that it is the time not to hide their face but to exalt the law of Jehovah by unfurling the banner on which is inscribed the message of the third angel, "Here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." Revelation 14:12. Evangelism, 281. . . .
When considering these three symbolic nations, the term, "the chief of the children," is important. The word chief means "firstfruits," and is derived from the root word meaning-"shaking."
[This is a shaky hermeneutic. I have written on this idea, the idea that etymology is helpful in showing the meaning of Hebrew and Greek words. It just isn’t true. It [unconsciously?] presupposes both verbal inspiration and a false sense of continuity in the meaning of words. See the introduction.] . . .
Three Enemies Symbolized
Let us consider some of the places in which Scripture portrays these three enemies. References and definitions of names are taken from the Seventh-day Adventist Bible Dictionary, 1960 edition:
Nehemiah 2:19:
Sanballat the Horonite: the moon-god, sin has given life. A Moabite.
Tobiah the Ammonite: Yahweh is good.
Geshem the Arabian: bom in the rainy season. Descendant of
Ishmael. Arabians are a family of tribes, (plural).

Judges 6:3; 7:12:
Midian: strife. Descendant of Abraham from Keturah.
Amalek, Descendant of Esau.
The children of the east (plural). Associated with Balaam.

Daniel 11:41:
Edom: red. Descendant of Esau.
Moab: from father. Descendant of Lot.
Ammon: paternal uncle. Descendants of Lot (plural).

Isaiah 11:14:
Edom, Moab, children of Ammon (plural).

Numbers 22:4-5:
Moab, Midian, Balaam of Pethor which is in the land of the children
of his people (plural).

Revelation 16:12-13:
Dragon: Spiritualism.
Beast: Catholicism.
False prophet: Apostate Protestantism (multiple churches, plural).

John 19:19-20:
Hebrew: one on the other side, Abraham, Shem.
Greek: sons of the Iortians, Japheth (plural).
Latin: Roman: I have exalted, Babylon was founded by Nimrod, a descendant of Ham.
The Issue of the Law
The ancient enemies listed in Daniel 11:41 are a prophetic waymark identifying those who are in resistance to God's, final-warning message, as well as identifying where those who respond to the latter-rain message flee from. These enemies are mentioned in prophecies or types whenever a prediction or illustration identifying the time period of the loud cry is being presented. These scenarios consistently identify an issue concerning God's law which precedes the latter-rain movement.
[Let us pause here and divide what has been demonstrated from what had been suggested. It has been demonstrated that Ammon, Moab, and Edom were all long-time enemies of Israel. Granted. It has been demonstrated that Midian was also a long-time enemy, though the relevance of this is not clear. It has been demonstrated that Jesus’ cross bore an inscription in the three languages current in his day.
And it has been suggested that those three languages symbolize three enemies. It has been suggested that Balaam be considered “plural” since he came from the his “people.” It has been suggested that Ishmael be considered “plural” even in the history of Genesis, since it was a nation of “tribes.” But it has been suggested that Edom be considered not-plural, even though Edom was a group with “tribes” like “Amelek” mentioned.
These suggestions are unlike anything that you will find in the writing of the pioneers. They border on religious fiction.
And it has been suggested that this is a theme in scripture: There are three enemies. But this is far from demonstrated. Is it Judas, Pharisees, Sadducees? Or Pharisees, Sadducees and scribes? Or Pharisees and Sadducees? Or Judas and the Religious Leaders? Or the Romans and the Jews? Or Jesus’ family, his friends, and his enemies? Or Satan (Matthew 4, Luke 4), Judas (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John), and Caiaphas? Is it Sodom and Gomorrah? Or Sodom, Gomorah, and the “cities of the plain”? Or Sodom, Gommorah, Admah and Zeboiim? Or is it Sodom, Gommorah, Admah, Zeboiim and Zoar? Or is it Lot’s wife, his older daughter, and his younger daughter (illustrating spiritual adultery in the end-times)? Or is it Lot’s family, Lot’s City, and Lot’s choices to live there?
What am I saying? That this business is far too creative to be called Biblical interpretation.]
Gideon had to tear down the altar of Baal. Before the rains came, Elijah had to demonstrate God's power in contrast to that of Jezebel's gods. Before the Promised Land came Mount Sinai. Before Pentecost came Gethsemane and the Cross. The prophecy of Isaiah, chapters 10 through 12, begins with the issue of an "unrighteous decree," and culminates in the latter rain.
The issue of the law precedes the latter rain, and confirms that the Sunday law in the United States has already been passed if those symbolized by Moab, Ammon, and Edom are escaping. Understanding what and who these three nations represent in the prophetic sequence, identifies the glorious land of verse 41 as the United States, for the United States is where the Sunday law issue begins.
[Reader, perhaps you should do a little study on the Latter Rain and whether we should be expecting and praying for it to come now. But more than that, examine the reasoning of this passage. It shows that often troubles come before blessings. This is true. (Is it also true that troubles often come after blessings? Like Christ’s temptation after His baptism? His cross after the Triumphant entry?
And then it does the most circular form of reasoning. In short: Since troubles come before blessings, the Sunday-Law will come before the Latter Rain. Since Moab, Ammon, and Edom are escaping, it shows that the Sunday-Law has already come. If we know who they are, it is clear that the USA is the glorious land. Now check earlier in this document and see how we know who they are.]
He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.
The symbolic characteristics of the king of the south are understood by identifying the word south with Egypt, and then applying the atheistic, defiant attributes of Pharaoh, in order to identify Communism. Still we must consider the word used, and the context of the passage:
Why is it so hard to lead a self-denying, humble life? Because professed Christians are not dead to the world. It is easy living after we are dead. But many are longing for the leeks and onions of Egypt. They have a disposition to act and dress as much like the world as possible and yet go to heaven. Such climb up some other way. They do not enter through the strait gate and narrow way. Testimonies, vol 1, 131

Comment by Stephen Billiter on September 12, 2009 at 5:50am

A Summary of Thoughts and Concerns regarding the Teaching of Jeff Pippenger

I have only met Jeff one time in my life. I attended a symposium on Daniel 11 at the Lifestyle Center of America. The meeting was sponsored by several persons that favored Jeff’s teachings on Daniel 11, though persons with varying views were invited to attend.
It is fair to the organizers to say that they never thought to invite me. But how and by whom I was invited is beyond the scope of this short paper.
Before attending the seminar I was favorably inclined to believe what Jeff had to share. I had heard, as far as I knew, only positive things about his theology and his knowledge of prophecy.
And to his credit, I heard that he had avoided the pitfalls of “futurism” that have ruined the usefulness of so many would-be prophetic expositors.
More than that, I heard (and am still impressed) that Jeff has a high-level of respect for the Testimonies. And more than this, that he has made a diligent study of the pioneers.
This is an important point. The average Adventist doesn’t realize the difference in Biblical quality between the writings of the pioneers and modern writings. The former are logical, Biblical, earnest, and to the point. The latter deliver less of these qualities.
And so, again, Jeff has made a good study of the pioneers and on the points on which they are well agreed with each other, he tends to agree with them also.
Another positive point is that Jeff reminds Adventists of their duty and need to know and teach their message. He reminds us of the coming Sunday Law, the coming change in the USA, the coming Latter Rain and the final “rise and fall” of the Papacy.
In terms of our belief about the end of time and about Daniel 11, we share the following views:
The Man of Sin, the Leopard-like Beast, the Little Horn, etc., represent the Papacy.
The 1260 days began in 538 and ended in 1798.
Clovis led pre-France into becoming the first Catholic nation in 508.
The France-led invasion of Italy brought an end to the Papal rule over Rome in 1798.
France is represented by Egypt in Revelation 11.
Atheism, as nationally represented by communism, is the extension of the principles of the French Revolution, and spiritually, of Egypt.
The Latter Rain will add power to the church and cause our message to swell to the Loud Cry.
The tidings from the East and North in Daniel 11:44 are the Sealing messages of the Sabbath and of the Fourth Angel.
Daniel 12:1 is the close of human probation.
There are many other points that I could add to this list. The points well established by the book Great Controversy are held in common by us, and this means a lot of points.
If I ended here I guess this paper would amount to a recommendation of Jeff’s lectures and of his printed materials. I wish I could stop here.

In the future we will be brought before tribunals. There we will be asked to give reasons for our faith. If our reasons are sound, our enemies will be vanquished by the power of the Word. The power of the Spirit will add conviction to what we share.
This Spirit-powered conviction characterized the teaching of William Miller. He held crowds spell-bound under the searching power, not of exciting antics, but of calm reasoned explanation of the scripture. Authors wrote that if you accepted his suppositions that his conclusions were inescapable.
This is how our writings on prophecy should be. Scripture should interpret scripture. Clear passages should illumine obscure ones. This is how the introduction to Jeff’s book advertises the rest of it, as a Bible study that lets scripture interpret itself.

Discussing the weaknesses of Jeff’s book, “The Final Rise and Fall of the King of the North”, carries certain risks. I think of three of these dangers:
First, argument is always risky. We are prone to be proud and biased. A desire to “smite with the fist of wickedness” characterizes the devotional persons of our church according to Isaiah 58. I, as a Christian, must be kind and considerate in my presentations.
Second, Jeff has built his interpretations around a framework of truth. Any discussion of the weaknesses of his reasons could be easily misunderstood as an argument against the framework itself. If Jeff has given faulty reasons for believing a true fact, an attack on the faulty reasons could appear as an attack on the truths they were used to buttress.
Third, the power of the Ellen White statements that fill the book is strong. Many persons could well be benefitted by those statements in a powerful way. They could be awakened to a closer sense of their need to prepare for Christ’s coming. To show the weaknesses of the book could be perceived by them as an attack on the beauty of the spiritual revival they, as readers, have experienced.

If the reader understands the nature of these dangers it will make my work safer. When I point out logical fallacies (there are a few) and faulty principles (there are a couple) and faulty parallels (there are many), the reader can understand that I still believe in the soon coming National Sunday Law. Any doubts regarding my own teaching may quickly be settled by listening to my sermons at www.audioverse.org or reading my materials at www.bibledoc.org.

What follows immediately is a summary of concerns with the Jeff’s book already mentioned. After the summary you will find a partial detailing of issues related to the book and expanding on the summary.

Point One: How is history repeated?

That history is repeated, especially in our day, is absolutely established by the prophets. But the nature and cause of that repetition needs to be understood before that repetition is a helpful element in our interpretation of prophecy.

The work of God in the earth presents, from age to age, a striking similarity in every great reformation or religious movement. The principles of God's dealing with men are ever the same. The important movements of the present have their parallel in those of the past, and the experience of the church in former ages has lessons of great value for our own time. {GC 343.1}

History repeats because God, and even men and demons, operate on basically the same principles from age to age.

God does not force evil men to repeat the history of their ancestors. In fact, God warns them against doing so. He does, however, encourage faithful persons to imitate the faithfulness of ancient worthies. In every age mercy pleads with both camps until hope for the former is lost through the hardness of their hearts.

Ps 78:8 And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with God.
Eze 20:17 Nevertheless mine eye spared them from destroying them, neither did I make an end of them in the wilderness. 18 But I said unto their children in the wilderness, Walk ye not in the statutes of your fathers, neither observe their judgments, nor defile yourselves with their idols:
In every age there is given to men their day of light and privilege, a probationary time in which they may become reconciled to God. But there is a limit to this grace. Mercy may plead for years and be slighted and rejected; but there comes a time when mercy makes her last plea. The heart becomes so hardened that it ceases to respond to the Spirit of God. Then the sweet, winning voice entreats the sinner no longer, and reproofs and warnings cease. {DA 587.1}

The law of cause and effect doesn’t change. So the type of behavior exhibited by Abel produced persecution by persons like Cain. Holy living by Jesus led to his persecution. In fact, all that live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. Revivals are collective growth in holy living. Therefore a great revival will be followed by a serious persecution. Thus history repeats itself.

The apostle Paul declares that "all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." 2 Timothy 3:12. Why is it, then, that persecution seems in a great degree to slumber? The only reason is that the church has conformed to the world's standard and therefore awakens no opposition. The religion which is current in our day is not of the pure and holy character that marked the Christian faith in the days of Christ and His apostles. It is only because of the spirit of compromise with sin, because the great truths of the word of God are so indifferently regarded, because there is so little vital godliness in the church, that Christianity is apparently so popular with the world. Let there be a revival of the faith and power of the early church, and the spirit of persecution will be revived, and the fires of persecution will be rekindled. {GC 48.3}

As an example of how history repeats we may consider the story of the Exodus. When Moses’ followers rebelled against God, Moses was tested over his love for them by an invitation to separate from their company. This happened in Numbers 14. It happened twice again in Numbers 16. It happened also in Numbers 20. God used the rebellion of the rebellious to cultivate the faithful intercession of the faithful. And this happened repeatedly on the way to Canaan, a trip representing our journey at the end of the world.
The question is: Does history repeat in numerical patterns? Or does it repeat rather as men of one age make choices similarly to men of another?
Should I expect that, in our day, there will be four such intercede-or-leave tests, each with characteristics of the four in Israel’s history, and in the same order? Should I expect 10 unfaithful men (against two faithful peers and two faithful leaders) to spearhead the first rebellion (as Num 14); three unfaithful men (two with families, one, like Korah, without his family) to spearhead the second (as Num 16); the third to be the entire nation (as Num 16 also), and the forth to irritate the faithful (as Moses struck the rock in Num 20)?
Or should I expect that in the end of time that there will be repeated tests of men’s love for their brethren by calls to leave the denomination because of its sins? In the same way, shouldn’t I expect that most rebels will take their families with them, but that being a child of a rebel doesn’t doom a man (as it didn’t doom Korah’s children)? And shouldn’t I expect that I am under obligation to guard my spirit, even while interceding, so that I am not irritated by the church’s unfaithfulness (as was Moses) and so, like him, forfeit my chance at translation?
The latter paragraph, and not the former, is the proper way to view the repetition of history. In the latter case we understand that God selected snippets of history that would well represent the spiritual condition of our age. That is how Paul used the Exodus stories in 1 Corinthians 10:

5 But with many of [the Israelites] God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 ¶ Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

But the other way of understanding historical patterns is one used by Jeff regarding Daniel 11:30-36, regarding the timing of numerous events, and regarding number-oriented patterns and parallels. He looks for numbers of “enemies”, order of obstacles, and short patterns in history, and reads these as prophecies, as principles of how the Great Controversy between Christ and Satan works.
Yet this idea is flawed. The reason that there were three horns to pluck up by the influence of the little horn was not that God was making it happen that way to produce a prophetic pattern. The little horn uprooted the very tribes it needed to, and unless a prophet says otherwise, that is all we should assume.
In summary of this first concern, a misunderstanding of how history repeats creates many false prophecies out of perceived patterns planned neither by God nor orchestrated by Satan.

Point Two: How much should we trust an author?

Jeff repeatedly makes suggestions as to the meaning of passages of scripture. He states his convictions as matters of fact. The Libyans and the Ethiopians, he explains, represent the poor and the rich. He gives a little evidence in the form of some anecdotal history. And then he expects his readers to believe him.
This isn’t safe. Our pioneers adopted another course. They took the various views, along with the scriptural evidence for each, and logically eliminated all but the true view. You could read their writings starting with a differing view and see, by the end, that you were wrong. You didn’t need to trust the authors to follow their logic.
The method of suggesting a meaning works best for passages which people know that they don’t understand. That is why I, like many, was anxious to read the section on the Libyans and the Ethiopians. I had ideas about their meaning, but had not been able to settle on any conclusion with certainty. I thought Jeff might present compelling Biblical data that would throw light on the subject.
And neither have I settled on a meaning for these two nations now.

Point Three: What role does a Lexicon play in Biblical interpretation?

Words change in meaning over time. “By and by” today means “eventually.” In 1611 it meant “immediately.” And “let” today means “allow.” But in 1611 it often meant “hinder.” In cases like these lexicons can be helpful to persons unaware of the ancient meaning of a word.
But Lexicons are merely dictionaries. They describe part of the range of meanings that a word may have.
Let me demonstrate a faulty use of a lexicon by taking an actual statement by Ellen White (in English) and using an English lexicon like a foreign person unfamiliar with English might erroneously do when trying to understand a translation of the passage into his own language.
Supposing that the translation was a good one, it would read something like this, but in a foreign language:

My attention was then called to William Miller. He looked perplexed and was bowed with anxiety and distress for his people. The company who had been united and loving in 1844 were losing their love, opposing one another, and falling into a cold, backslidden state. – EW 257

Looking up key words in his English lexicon, our foreign speaking person might find the following definitions for original English words:

Attention: n, attentiveness, as “attention to a teacher”; affection for an ailing person; military: standing upright as a sign of respect;
Call: v., to beckon with a voice; to make a song, as a “bird call”; a telephone communication or attempted communication;
Bow: v., to kneel, usually as a sign of respect; to bend at the waist, as “the artist bowed to the clapping persons.”; to bend;
Company: n. Group; Companions, as “they make good company”; an organized business;

So now our foreign student tries to understand the passage. He might conclude that Ellen White heard a voice calling her to be kind to William Miller who was having a rough day and was nervously kneeling, apparently under pressure from his people. These companions had been united and loving in 1844 but were losing their kindness [as is obvious earlier in the passage when they lead William to “bow.”]

But we, as English speakers, wouldn’t conclude that. You see, we know the language. It is easy for us, very easy, to know what “attention”, “call”, “bowed”, and “company” mean in that Early Writings paragraph.

This is like the difference between Bible translators and us. They knew the language. Many times it was very easy for them to know which definition of a word (for many words have more than one) ought to be understood in a passage. And we? We don’t. And we are likely to guess wrongly and to make up fanciful interpretations if we do guess using a lexicon.

A safer way (than correcting a text via lexicon) to see if there are alternate ways to read the Hebrew or Greek is to look at a variety of translations based on the same Greek Text and to check the marginal readings in the KJV. Looking to see how the word is used in other similar contexts may also provide insights.
The translators of the KJV did a tolerably good job of giving literal translations and alternate readings in the margin. And other translations based on the same family of manuscripts as the KJV include the Rotherham, Webster, Weymouth, Young’s Literal, and much of the NKJV.

There is another and graver mistake in using a lexicon that is often made, and sometimes made by Jeff in this book. Men use the history of the development of the word to help them understand its meaning in a passage. Let me illustrate.

Joh 11:9 Jesus answered [611], Are there not twelve hours in the day [2250]? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.

The two words, Strongs numbers 611 and 2250, are two of the most abundantly used words in the new testament (used 250 and 389 times respectively, compared to an average occurrence of 5 uses per word.) It is easy to look at the definitions and see that they mean “answer” and “day.” And it is easy to look up other passages that use them and see that they are translated that way all through the New Testament.
But if you look at the introduction of their definitions you will find that the word “answer” is derived from two Greek words, “apo” and “krino.” These words mean, “away from” and “judgment, or condemnation.” It seems that at some time the word “apokrinomai” came from replying to an accusation. Yet by the time of Jesus it was used simply to mean “answer.”
And in the passage quoted above the word “day” is haemera. This is what my lexicon says about it:
from (with 5610 implied) of a derivative of hemai (to sit, akin to the base of 1476) meaning tame, i.e. gentle;

Now this is all very interesting. The word day was derived from a word that meant “to sit” and that was related to a word meaning “tame” or “gentle.” It implies the Greek word for “hour” (5610). One could get the idea that “day” means “an hour for gentle meditation, or sitting.”
But this would be a faulty conclusion. The word just means “day.” Its meaning developed and changed over time. By the time of Jesus it had lost all meaningful connection with its historical sources. When prophets use words, they use them as those around them currently understand them, not in accordance with their ancient derivations.
One of my friends, reading the first draft of this document, was concerned that I was pushing Biblical interpretation back into the dark ages where only the learned could do it. But it is not so.
In fact, William Miller studied the Bible with a Cruden’s Concordance and by making use of the marginal readings. This was sufficient. He was dependant, you might say, on the scholars that translated the Bible into English. We all are, of course, unless we make diligent study of the languages ourselves. These great men translated the scripture into our language to free us so that we could read and interpret the Bible without depending on scholars.
The misuse of the Lexicon actually creates an unhealthy dependence on men. When common men see that a lexicon has been referenced they often suppose that the writer is more learned than they. They assume that what he says about the Greek or Hebrew words is true since he quotes it from a lexicon. And so they repose in the conclusions of his studies being neither inclined nor able to follow him into the maze of a foreign language.

Point Four: Does repetition transform speculation into study?

Jeff, after making a point about the interpretation of Daniel 11, often refers back to that point again and again. This is a fine method of teaching. It helps settle points in the mind.
But if the initial point was made with a deficient amount of evidence, or with an improper use of parallels or of a lexicon, that fact may be readily forgotten by the reader a few pages later.
This is particularly troublesome if the point made was speculative. By “speculative” I mean that Jeff selected one of the ways that a passage or word could be understood to the exclusion of others, but without evidence that he had good reason to exclude the others.
The repetition gives the impression that there is a lot of material and many ideas in the study even when there is little data and few evidences. Instead of the pioneer method of evidence-evidence-evidence-evidence-conclusion, Jeff sometimes uses a conclusion-evidence-conclusion-conclusion-conclusion-conclusion pattern.

Point Five: Does plausibility mean dependability?

Let me illustrate this with an actual point from the book. The following is a quotation from the section on the first 39 verses of Daniel 11:

After the delineation of the history of pagan Rome, verse 29 describes the closing scenes of pagan Rome's authority. Here we see Constantine moving the capital away from Rome at the "time appointed." In verse 30 we see his "indignation against the holy covenant" as he introduces the first Sunday laws.
So here is the plausibility. Perhaps Constantine’s Sunday Law of 321 AD is what is meant by “indignation against the holy covenant” in verse 30. Perhaps it is so. And it fits well if you believe Daniel 11 to be about Sunday Laws later on in the chapter.

But do plausibility and a nice fit in connection with end-time scenarios help us know if this is the right interpretation of the prophecy? I say “no.” We need to look at reasons, arguments, data, and to compare scripture with scripture. Consider the following:

1. Constantine did not live at the time of the “closing scenes of pagan Rome’s Authority.”
2. Constantine’s Sunday Law was pagan, not Christian, in nature and wording
3. The first part of verse 30 speaks of the “ships” that both Jeff and I understand to refer to the Vandals. They began their work against Rome after being chased from their homeland by the Huns, and this was long after the time of Constantine.
4. Time wise, this passage parallels the introduction of the little horn in Daniel 7 where it seeks to “change times and laws.”
5. Conclusion: It is the papacy that has indignation against the Holy Covenant in verse 30.

Conclusion

These are my concerns with the book. It does have merits. It connects Rev 14:12 and 17:3. And it connects Dan 11:36 with 2The 2. It makes a good point regarding Rev 13:2 and Rev 17. There are other valid observations.

But there is also too much creativity and speculation. Men are invited to adopt interpretations without sound reasoning. And this habit of uncritical thinking in the face of doctrinal teaching does not bode well for the time in which we live.

If someone wants more specifics on my relation to Jeff’s teachings, my comments on the following book are highlighted in blue so as to be easy to find. (Items not in blue, below, are quoted from Jeff’s book.) Most of Jeff’s book is not found below. But in the numerous places where portions (many large) have been omitted, an ellipsis is inserted, usually after one of my comments in blue.
---------

If the conclusions drawn from this study are accurate, they confirm that we presently stand on the verge of a national Sunday law in the United States, and will soon be involved in the greatest time of trouble which has ever been. This sobering thought is very similar to the convictions held by the early Millerites,
[And, also, if the conclusion drawn from this study include a number of fallacies, yet it is still true that we presently stand on the verge of a national Sunday Law in the United States, etc.. It would be inaccurate to give the impression that someone disagreeing with JP’s principles must surrender his belief in fundamental Adventism.] . . .
Daniel 11:30-36 identifies the rise of the Papacy at the beginning of the 1260 years. Sister White, while describing the transition of pagan Rome into papal Rome, ties both Daniel 11:36 and 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 together confirming that the subject of both is "the man of sin."
“This compromise between paganism and Christianity resulted in the development of "the man of sin" foretold in prophecy as opposing and exalting himself above God. That gigantic system of false religion is a masterpiece of Satan's power-a monument of his efforts to seat himself upon the throne to rule the earth according to his will.” The Great Controversy, 50.
[Yes and No. Yes, the Man of Sin in Dan 11:36 is the same as that in 2Th 2:3-4. No, Ellen White should not be quoted as saying it is so. The phrase “according to his will” is too generic and may have been chosen for its usefulness and familiarity and not as a way of expounding on Daniel 11:36. This is an important point that saves us from perplexity over a number of prophecies that Ellen White uses a variety of ways.] . . .
The First Sunday Laws
After the delineation of the history of pagan Rome, verse 29 describes the closing scenes of pagan Rome's authority. Here we see Constantine moving the capital away from Rome at the "time appointed." In verse 30 we see his "indignation against the holy covenant" as he introduces the first Sunday laws.
[But…isn’t verse 30 referring to Papal Rome? To the Vandals, mentioned earlier in this study as the Ships of Chittim? How did we get back two centuries to Constantine? And can Constantine’s pagan Sunday law be called “national apostasy” (see below)? Was it the law or the persecution of God’s people as mentioned in Revelation 2 that led to God’s judgments? And three paragraphs down, who is it in verse 30 that is grieved? Reader, JP can’t have it both ways. Either verse 30 is about Justinian’s day, or about Constantine’s, or perhaps Constantine and then Justinian. But here JP has it has Justinian and then Constantine’s Sunday Laws. Hmmm.] . . .
The transition from pagan to papal Rome identified in Daniel 11: 30-36 is also addressed in Daniel 7, which teaches that three horns would be plucked up from the ten horns, in order for one stout horn to fill their places. These three horns are the "ships of Chittim," of Daniel 11:30 which were coming against pagan Rome. As the three horns of Daniel 7 continue to grieve Rome in her ability to control the world, we see a deliverer arise out of the other seven horns of Daniel 7.
[Three horns are the “ships of Chittim”? Vandals used ships. Let us give JP this one. But the “Goths” and Heruli?]
Up until this time, the seven nations of Europe were pagans, and had not been sympathetic to Roman Catholicism, but prophecy states that arms shall stand on his part." In fulfillment of this, Clovis, King of France, came to the military aid of the Papacy, and France became the first Catholic nation. Clovis dedicated his sword and his throne to the Papacy in A.D. 508, and then began the war against the three horns--the Goths, Vandals, and Heruli.
Paganism Removed
When Clovis dedicated his crown to the Papacy, the pagan powers of Europe followed his lead. The pagan forces of Europe which had formerly been resisting Catholicism joined with the Roman church. The pagan aspect of these seven nations is symbolized in the word "daily" in verse 31.
[It would be hard to say that these tribes were less Christian than Catholicism. They were Arian Christians, converted to a type of Christianity in the 4th century by missionaries from the eastern church where Constantine’s son, an Arian himself, encouraged the mission. But the papacy did take away the dominion of the Roman nation and replace it with a Roman church-nation, and that may well be what is symbolized by the term “taking away of the daily.”] . . .
The Walls and Modern Babylon
As we proceed to address Daniel 11:40-45, we will find that the first three verses in this sequence identify three areas of conquest which are subdued as the king of the north takes control of the world. These three areas are the former Soviet Union, the United States, and finally the entire world. These three areas have symbolic walls associated with themselves, which are removed as the Papacy rises to its final position as the head of the world.
[Think about this reader. JP has proven well that scenes in our day will be similar to those existing in the middle age papal rule. On this we agree. But where is he going from there? He notes that three directions of conquest and three doomed tribes were mentioned in the prophecies of pagan and Papal Rome’s rise. And to get “three” out of his future list, he uses 1. USA 2. Soviet Union 3. World. Is that three? Or two? Or 240? And just take a look at the text, Dan 11:40-45. How many areas of conquest do you see? Is it plain and simple, as in Daniel 7 and 8, that there are three?
What is happening here is that JP is misunderstanding the nature of repeating prophecy. He is looking for numerical patterns where he ought to be looking for similar thoughts and feelings. It would be as if someone had used the story of the Exodus to show that in the future we will have one apostasy over jewelry, followed quickly by one over food and immorality. But what is really being shown? That in our day we will face similar issues to those faced at that time, jewelry, food, and morality. This issue will come up again.
The first symbolic wall was the former 'iron curtain,' represented by the literal Berlin Wall, the destruction of which was a milestone in the rapid disintegration of the Soviet Empire.
Before the Papacy enters the United States through the passage of a national Sunday law, the symbolic 'wall of separation of church and state' will have to be removed. It will be accomplished by the politicians and justices of this land, as a result of the pressure brought upon them by the Protestant and Catholic voters of this country. The pressure is already mounting and can easily be verified through the testimony given within the secular presses. This second wall of attack for the Papacy is already being threatened.
The third wall which the Papacy will bring down in order to take control of the entire world is the symbolic 'wall of national sovereignty.' The likely, structure which will be used to control the world is the United Nations. Already within the laws which have been developed by the United Nations, we find the legal principles designed to remove national sovereignty. This organization has already written and passed laws which supersede the national laws of individual countries. In fact, many of these countries-including the United States-have already signed these agreements, Placing the laws of the individual nations in subjection to the laws of the world government.
[OK, here are the “three” walls. One is a national border, an actual wall. One is a legal principle. And one is so abstract as to be hard to explain – national self-control. This might be an interesting device for helping someone to remember a story, but it is a stretch if used as a way of explaining prophecy.
Let me explain again by a similar exposition (a fanciful and insincere one): There are three hills that the papacy must climb on its way to international sovereignty. There is the hill of atheistic unbelief in God’s existence. There is “Capitol Hill”, the legislature of the USA. And there is the “uphill” battle of convincing all nations to bow.
Or here is another. There are three horns that must be plucked up for the papacy to be re-established. One of these is the “civil liberty” horn of the lamb-like beast, the USA. Another is the “religious liberty” horn of the same beast. The third is the horn, or trumpet, of the Communist Revolution.
What am I saying? Prophetic interpretation is not like this when done well.] . . .
Pioneer Position
Two early pioneers give their view of this last power in Daniel 11:
Michael is to stand up at the time that the last power in [Daniel] chapter 11, comes to his end, and none to help him. This power is the last that treads down the true church of God: and as the true church is still trodden down, and cast out by all Christendom, it follows that the last oppressive power has not "come to his end;" and Michael has not stood up. This last power that treads down the saints is brought to view in Revelation 13:11-18. His number is 666. James White, A Word to the Little Flock, 8-9.
Historical events, showing the direct fulfillment of prophecy, were set before the people, and the prophecy was seen to be a figurative delineation of events leading down to the close of this earth's history. The scenes connected with the working of the man of sin are the last features plainly revealed in this earth's history. Selected Messages, book 2, 102.
We are in error if we seek to interpret prophecy in a way which is inconsistent with correct prophetic interpretations of the past. The last clear views of prophecy concern the Papacy; the pioneers proclaimed the power "that comes to his end and none shall help him," as being the Papacy. We are told that prophecy is a "figurative delineation of events" fulfilled by historical events. Events in our recent history have fulfilled verse 40:
[Here JP is right and wrong. He is right that the king of the North is the Papacy. He is wrong to prove it as he does. It is circular to say that the pioneers were right on those points in which they were right. And the quote from 2SM says nothing about Daniel 11 directly. Anyone familiar with Haskell and the issue of the “Daily” will have read Ellen White’s rebuke of him for using her indirect statements to settle issues that ought to be settled by Bible Study. And more than this, A Word to the Little Flock was written prior to the time when SDA’s understood “Revelation 13:11-18.” We wouldn’t want to say that James was right when he pointed to the lamb-like beast as the papacy....]
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 2 Peter 1: 1 9-2 1. . . .
The Ulai and the Hiddekel are two rivers with two different, though interrelated, messages, but both messages come to a completion at the end of the world-just as both rivers flowed into the same sea.
The twofold message of the visions of both rivers are Daniel's counterpart of the three angels' messages of Revelation 14, for the three angels' messages also tell the story of the everlasting gospel in connection with the final work of judgment going on in the heavenly sanctuary above. They also identify the "man of sin" who will attempt to have the whole world receive the mark of his authority.
In Revelation 15:2 John describes those who have entered into the experience symbolized by the Ulai river as standing on "a sea of glass mingled with fire," for in the battle against the king of the north, they "had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name." The vision of the river Ulal prophetically ends at the sea of glass.
In Revelation 19:20 John describes the end of the king of the north the Papacy-by stating: "the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone." The vision of the river Hiddekel prophetically ends at the lake of fire.
[This last section is another example of fanciful connections. The visions at the rivers were not the rivers. They were not even metaphorical rivers. No prophet made the rivers into metaphors. The visions do not “end” in metaphorical lakes. What is JP doing? But if he invents a metaphor, he is welcome to invent its meaning, and this he does. But do not pretend it is prophetic interpretation.] . . .
In Revelation 11:7 and also Revelation 17:8 we have a power that came out of a bottomless pit, which symbolically means that it has no foundation in the Word of God. The French revolution lacked the support of the Word of God, for it was founded and sustained upon atheism. In Exodus 5:2, "Pharaoh said, Who is the LORD, that I should obey his voice to let Israel go? I know not the LORD, neither will I let Israel go."
[This is an interesting assertion regarding the word “bottomless pit.” Umm. Where did it come from? What about “abussos” and the standard teaching regarding this phrase? Does “abussos” mean “bottomless’? Or just desolate? Do JP’s readers follow him in this kind of paragraph? The pioneers had a good deal to say about “abussos.”] . . .
Prophecy applied before the cross is understood in its local and literal setting; prophecy applied after the cross is understood in its symbolic setting. For example, modern Israel is the Seventh day Adventist Church, so too, modern Babylon is the Papacy.
[Who was modern Israel in AD 1825? Does the Laodicean message only describe Adventism? This is an important question – whether SDA’s are the Levites or whether they are the nation of Israel.] . . .
For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off, and cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city! And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate. Revelation 18:17-19.
Through economic pressure the king of the north sweeps away the king of the south. The king of the south succumbs to a combination of economic and military power, the same two characteristics that the Papacy and its image will use to force the world to receive the mark of the beast. See Revelation 13:15-17.
[Ships are economic strength? But ships are Vandals 13 verses before this (and on the same side of cross time-wise)? This looks to be stretching it, to say that because they are used by merchants that they represent them. Is there any evidence more solid? And if “ships” are ships in verse 30, is there any reason to assume that they are not literal here? Aren’t they literal in Revelation 18 quoted above?]
In 1798 the king of the south, France, began an ongoing war against the king of the north, Catholicism. Atheism continued to develop its ideology, and reached another stage of growth at the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917. Communism continued the war against Catholicism, attempting to bring the former empire of papal Rome into its grasp, but in time, Catholicism mounted an overwhelming counterattack. The king of the north swept away the entire structure of the king of the south, entering, into all the countries of the former Soviet Union.
[Umm, the Soviet Union crumbled. That is clear. This left a void that SDA’s took advantage of. This is clear. But what religions have benefitted most or have taken over in place of Communism? In Poland and Ukraine– it is Catholicism. But in most of the republics it is the inveterate enemies of Catholicism – Orthodoxy and Islam.]

Comment by Stephen Billiter on September 12, 2009 at 5:40am

nice of you to make an attempt at an apology and then qualify that with a criticism, I think we can all do better don't you? Since we are not perfect?How ever, I accept your apology, have a wonderful Sabbath. I will post observations about Pippinger, the saints can make up their own mind.

Comment by The Watchman on September 11, 2009 at 9:37am

Thank you. Your final entry has led me to believe that I was wrong about you. Your response leads me to believe that you are being led by Christ. I was expecting a much more scathing response, and I expected you to go on trashing Pippinger and everything else you could think of. I apologize for saying that you were of a different spirit, or that you will go to any means to prove you are right, or any other negative thing I said about you. I hope you will forgive me, and I ask you to forgive me.

I still think you could improve on your presentation of the truth, but I will leave that up to the holy spirit.

God bless

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