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"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son..." (Jn 3:16)

God the Father loved the world. Did the Son share this love? Did He ALSO love the world?

We need not entertain a single doubt upon this point. The Son may be honored equally when it comes to the motivation behind the great venture. (Jn 5:23).

But in real terms, who initiated it? What were some of the mechanics behind the Father actually giving and sending forth His Son? For those that accept the words of Ellen White there is some striking clarity on this matter.

The following scene is described. It takes place in heaven, after Adam's fall.

"Soon I saw Him [Jesus] approach the exceeding bright light which enshrouded the Father... Three times He was shut in by the glorious light about the Father, and the third time he came from the Father we could see His person. His countenance was calm, free from all perplexity and trouble, and shone with a lovliness which words cannot describe. He then made know to the angelic choir that a way of escape had been made for lost man; THAT HE HAD BEEN PLEADING WITH THE FATHER, and had obtained PERMISSION to give His own life as a ransom for the race..."

(Early Writings p.126)

It was only after Jesus asked -- it was only after Jesus had pleaded with His Father -- that He might be allowed to give His life, that the Father "GAVE" His Son. It is clear I think, that the Father would never have sent His Son, had Jesus not first asked to go. And Jesus would never have taken such a step without seeking the permission and approval of the Father.

"Said the angel, "Think ye that the Father yielded up His dearly beloved Son without a struggle? No, no." It was even a struggle with the God of heaven, whether to let guilty man perish, or to give His darling Son to die for them." (ibid. p.127)

HE GAVE.

The Father did not "loan" Jesus to the human family as a temporary measure (i.e. it was not simply a matter of 33 years). It behooved Him [it was imperative to Jesus] to be made like His prospective brethren. And when He took humanity upon Himself, the Divine Son took it upon Himself for ever. He retains humanity [albeit glorified humanity,] to this day, and its limitations are upon Him for eternity. Did the Son give up His omnipresence? If He did, the limitations of humanity go far beyond the loss of omnipresence! The sacrifice undertaken by the Father, Son, and Spirit was enormous. Yet we have such a dim, flickering, view of what it cost each one of them, but our salvation cost them an everlasting cost, and it was the Son that carried the greatest burden.

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This is to me the most profound text in The Bible, it says. 

Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. (KJV)

As is this EGW Quote 

The man traveling into a far country represents Christ, who, when speaking this parable, was soon to depart from this earth to heaven. The “bondservants” (R.V.), or slaves, of the parable, represent the followers of Christ. We are not our own. We have been “bought with a price” (1 Corinthians 6:20), not “with corruptible things, as silver and gold, ... but with the precious blood of Christ” (1 Peter 1:18, 19); “that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto Him which died for them, and rose again” (2 Corinthians 5:15). {COL 325.3}

All men have been bought with this infinite price. By pouring the whole treasury of heaven into this world, by giving us in Christ all heaven, God has purchased the will, the affections, the mind, the soul, of every human being. Whether believers or unbelievers, all men are the Lord’s property. All are called to do service for Him, and for the manner in which they have met this claim, all will be required to render an account at the great judgment day.{COL 326.1}

Stewart said, 

But in real terms, who initiated it? What were some of the mechanics behind the Father actually giving and sending forth His Son?

The Father gave His only begotten Son.  The word gave in this case means; to give one to someone to care for his interests: John 3:16

The vision and the plan of salvation was that of the Father, everything is always of and from God the Father.  Jesus said that he came to do the Father’s will. The commentary you present from EGW suggest seems to suggest that the Father had to be persuaded to give.

"Soon I saw Him [Jesus] approach the exceeding bright light which enshrouded the Father... Three times He was shut in by the glorious light about the Father, and the third time he came from the Father we could see His person. His countenance was calm, free from all perplexity and trouble, and shone with a lovliness which words cannot describe. He then made know to the angelic choir that a way of escape had been made for lost man; THAT HE HAD BEEN PLEADING WITH THE FATHER, and had obtained PERMISSION to give His own life as a ransom for the race..." (Early Writings p.126)

The bible dose not present this view, but one that is quite the opposite.  You also say this scene takes place in heaven after Adams fall. This too is another statement that is not validated from the words of the bible.

God’s plan of salvation was not a concoction; it was not formed in the heat of the moment.

The book of Titus expounds on it by saying….

In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.

God’s saving grace and his eternal power was already operating before the fall. The Godhead was never troubled or perplexed about how humanity would be saved; the way had already been made.

He has saved us and called us to a holy life--not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus… 2 Timothy 1:10

This work of salvation did not begin at the fall, but it was in effect before the beginning of time.

When the prophet John saw Jesus he said, “Behold the Lamb of God.”  Jesus was the Lamb of God, and the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Rev. 13:8).  

It was God the Father's plan from the foundation of the world.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son...

The Father did not give an angle, He gave the only one who could care for His interest as Him; He gave His only Son.

Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself…

Gene 

Your Understanding of What EGW did write is not correct. I suggest you take the trouble to read the Great Controversy before you criticize her as a false prophet. 

Elijah,

I never used the term false prophet; you did. I merely said, and this is my observation, that the bible dose not present this view. I in turn present a view using the scriptures that I see that the bible presents. Also let me add this, the bible dose not present her view anywhere.

Stewart did qualify his comment by saying, “For those that accept the words of Ellen White …” I get that, but it doesn’t matter if you accept the words of Ellen White or not.

In order to accept her words one has to evaluate those words. The question should be whether or not those word point us back to the bible itself.  Personally I cannot say that the words presented here does that.  The bible doesn’t show us these things, so one is ultimately left with believing her words in this case, or believing the words of the bible.  Which one do you choose?

Gene 

see there you go you said this 

In order to accept her words one has to evaluate those words. The question should be whether or not those word point us back to the bible itself.  Personally I cannot say that the words presented here does that.  The bible doesn’t show us these things, so one is ultimately left with believing her words in this case, or believing the words of the bible.  Which one do you choose?

What you say here condemns her as a false prophet because you are not even prepared to [What was it you said? evaluate] EGW herself always upheld the bible as the greater light. 

Elijah,

How do you know or how can anyone know that EGW is right? One must evaluate and judge her words against those of the other prophets in the Bible; the prophets of old, they were the ones God’s holy word came through. The apostles of the NT only reaffirmed that which had already been spoken. You see this in scriptures like 2 Peter 1:21 and Hebrews 1:1

For no prophecy was ever brought about through human initiative, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

Long ago God spoke to the fathers by the prophets at different times and in different ways.

What EGW seems to be saying here has not been spoken by these prophets of old.  This is important; either this is something new or this is not rightly spoken.

Luke 24:25And He (Jesus) said to them, "O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!… 27Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.…

Luke 24:44 He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.

Here Jesus points to where we may find thing concerning him; the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.

In my opinion, any continual light and knowledge is going to conform to everything that the prophets have already been shown. Can you honestly say that this does?

He then made know to the angelic choir that a way of escape had been made for lost man; THAT HE HAD BEEN PLEADING WITH THE FATHER, and had obtained PERMISSION to give His own life as a ransom for the race..."

Gene 

I see you have not read any of her writings. Because if you had you would understand that that quote is in perfect harmony with the Bible. So your evaluation must be based on others opinion not your own. That quote runs as a read thread trough the whole Bible Culminating with what Jesus said to Nicodemus:

Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

If you care to read Noels post just below he does a great work of explaining the Redemption 

Elijah,

I did read his post and enjoyed what he had to say, but the question I asked you.

How do you know or how can anyone know that EGW is right?

Gene you need faith and trust in the "Holy Spirit" to show you. And asking the Lord to remove preeconceived dogma. It seems like you have been well indoctrinated with WWCOG take on prophecy. 

Ian

I have read it, and this work which was a collaborative effort, does not reflect a true prophet. This work is an interpretation of scripture which was a combination of Protestant understanding of scripture and the unique beliefs of the early SDA church. This work named under the pen of Ellen White was confirmation of the doctrine taught by SDA theologians and was not novel to her. Her visions and subsequent support of the church reflected not directed the doctrine of the church. When she chose to deviate from that agenda in 1888 she was sent to Australia.

Leon

  

Leon thanks for your thoughts I am well aware  of what you say, however I have no problems with EGW or the SDA doctrines. Because the "Holy Spirit" has shown me that it is in keeping with the Bible. Seeing you have so much trouble in believe in the SDA doctrines one wonder why you are a Adventist? 

Hello Gene

You are correct the EG White counsel is outside of scriptural understanding.  God is not human and does not reason as we do. There is not recording of the pleading with the father to save humanity in scripture, not even a single innuendo. As you have indicated God knows the future, thus he would be aware of the actions of his creation and the issues with sin. Thus, the issue of pleading with the father is an effort of humanize God which brings him down to the level of human reasoning.

Leon

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