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I have been looking at supposed SDA online sites. Unfortunately I am getting more and more confused with who is who..now I find this guy teaching a 2520 prophecy..and yep..by all accounts he is an SDA layman.

How many more are amongst us? Do you ever think you are reading an SDA site when in fact it's not of our teaching?

 

A Review of Jeff Pippenger’s teachings - Norman McNulty, M.D.

 

 

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Since this discussion is the top search result on Google for the term "Jeff Pippenger", we have seen a 'round up the troops' movement of Pippenger supporters.  They come here to defend beliefs which the Seventh-day Adventist Church has found to be baseless.  Beliefs which have lead these same supporters of Jeff Pippenger to leave the Seventh-day Adventist Church.  This is a web site for Seventh-day Adventists by Seventh-day Adventists.  Each new member must answer "Yes" to the following question to create a profile here:  "Do you agree to uphold the principles and beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist church in your conduct on this site and follow the Site Rules & Guidelines?"

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The 1863 chart was a visual aid to help Ministers in presenting the prophecies. It is not a statement of beliefs. It does indicate that Adventists moved away from using the 2520 but it does not mean that it was not truth. My view is that the 2520 was a neglected prophecy that was prematurely discarded. Now light is coming upon its significance but many cannot see it.

Theodore, all the charts were visual aids.

Contrary to what you said, the 1863 chart proved that Adventists had dropped that doctrine from their system of beliefs. The Seventh-day Adventist leadership openly rejected any prophetic time in Leviticus 26

The 2520 movement is a direct attack on the Seventh-day Adventist denomination and this is one of the reasons that led me to write a book on it. I want to expose that movement and the errors of the 2520 prophecy. I have discussed the 2520 prophecy with those who are at the forefront of teaching it and they have failed in proving their theories. My heartfelt prayer is that those who have been blinded by the errors of the 2520 prophecy, will see the truth and renounce their position. The Seventh-day Adventist Church is right in rejecting the 2520 prophecy

is the 1260 on the 63 chart?  is the 1290?  is the 1335?  i guess we must nullify those prophecies as well.  if you honestly believed that the 63 chart is the definition of adventism, how come it hasnt been mentioned by anyone until we started talking bout the 43 and 50 charts?  where does ellen white say it was written by the hand of God?  what prophecy in the Bible does the 63 chart fulfill, seeing as it does not speak?

i dont understand why we consider 1863 as the foundation year of our church.  was it simply because we didnt file our papers with the US government until 1863 in order to gain conscientious objector status during the civil war? 

How is the 2520 antagonistic to the Seventh-day Adventist Church? It has made me a stronger Adventist and has been reclaiming fallen Adventists and affirming those who have been in the church for years ( I have been an Adventist for 30 years and the 2520 has answered many unanswered questions).

i will say it again - all three charts were endorsed and all served a divine purpose. With increased light, the charts were improved upon. The 1843 chart replaced the earlier Millerite charts; the 1850 chart replaced the 1843 chart; the 1863 chart replaced the previous charts

So then, The 1335, 1290? Not on the 1863 charts so not truth?

My Brother Abdool can you explain here which time periods was Ellen White referring to:

   I asked Brother Walker where he would be or what would be his state, if Jesus had now left the Most Holy and His work for the saints was all done and he were in the state he then was? I talked plainly. The Lord helped me. I showed them how the messengers that had been toiling in the scattering time had labored to get the truth before them, how much they had suffered, and now, when God's cause was prospering, they embrace the third angel's message and enter into the labors of the chosen messengers of God, and lift up their heel against them, But I am making my story too long. . . .  {8MR 226.1}  

I begged of Jesus to forbid that there should be any discord among the shepherds, for then the flock would be scattered as sheep without a shepherd. I prayed Jesus to encircle them now in His lovely arms. I saw that the disunion between the shepherds had affected the flock. Then I saw that in the scattering time when paper after paper was dying, Brother Bates wrote for them until the last, and now in the gathering time when precious souls that have been hid beneath the rubbish and have not had the privilege of hearing the truth, need light from different ones, his testimony has been withheld. I saw that if ever the saints could be benefited by comforting words and the truth made clear in the paper, it is now in the gathering. God wanted the papers to cease in the scattering time, but now the truth should be sung, preached, prayed, and published. {12MR 250.3}

I saw that we must wake up, wake, and cry earnestly for the arm of the Lord to be revealed. It is fatal to sleep now. Time is almost finished. I saw that it was a shame for us to refer to the scattering for examples to govern us now in the gathering time; for if God does no more for us now than He did then, we shall never be gathered. In the scattering, Israel were torn and smitten, but now God will bind up and heal them. {SpM 1.1}
I saw that God had stretched out His hand the second time to recover the remnant of His people. They are these who have been covered up in the "rubbish" since 1844. I saw that efforts to spread the truth should now be put forth, such as in 1843 and 1844. In the scattering, efforts to spread the truth had but little effect--accomplished but little or nothing--but now in the gathering time, when God has set His hand to gather His people, efforts to spread the truth will have their designed effect; and all should be zealous and united in the work. I saw that a paper was needed, and all should feel interested in it. {SpM 1.2}

Can someone explain to me which time period was referred to as the past Scattering time and which time period was referred to as the Present Gathering time?

Knowing that you are not Honest Guys let me give you a Clue for those time periods 

Said the angel, The desolations of Zion are accomplished -- the scattering time is past. Should the living go to the dead for knowledge? Washington, N. H., September, 1852. {SpM 4.2}

Here it it very clear now that the scattering time period is in connection with the DESOLATIONS OF ZION, which are the two desolations of Zion, which are referred to as the Past?

As well here the two desolations she mentioned you might be in need of running away from the Truth, are in the book of Daniel 9:26-27.

Here we are my Brothers reply me not to post your new posts which will introduce new Ideas!!!

For those who have studied the Issue will explain which time periods are the desolations and according to the years she referred as PAST

Be Blessed God's people.

ALUNO, that problem only arises if you believe that a time prophecy has to be on the chart to be defined as a time prophecy.

The time prophecies are defined by the Bible not by a chart. However, if you had purchased a copy of the 1863 chart you would also have bought the Key to the chart by Uriah Smith. In there you will find all the prophetic times and how they relate to the chart.

AH Brother there are so many prophetic time periods which are not on the charts but we debating about the Prophetic time periods of the 1843, 1850 and 1863 chart ONLY.

Understanding that thus the Issue, I may say God Bless you for that!!!

A large portion of Daniel 9 is based on breaking the covenant and thus receiving "the oath [many versions say curse] written in the book of Moses" Dan 9:11.  In fact, Daniel's prayer is a direct reflection of Leviticus 26 because his prayer meets every qualification necessary to reverse the curse, so to speak.  How then, can we understand this portion of Daniel if we do not understand Moses, his prophecies, or Leviticus 26?  After all, Daniel is the perfect representation of how the 144000 are to act in the end times.  Also, to imply that one must study the prophecies of only a few of the prophets and disregard the others seems to get people in trouble.  Indeed both the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy make it clear that the prophets [all of them, even Moses] spoke more for our day [those living at the end of the world] than for their own.

It is also interesting to note that the beginning of the paragraph from which you quote starts like this: "I was shown that the truth once published now, will stand, for it is the truth for the last days."  This is very interesting because she said this in 1853.  Can you think of any Adventist publications were around at this time?  Well, a few stand out to me.  Those of William Miller and our Pioneers, Early Writings (from where this quote was taken), the Review and Herald, and the two charts.  Keep in mind that at this time all the pioneers including James White believed in the 2520 (there are a few quotes from him where he mentions the 2520 beginning and ending dates as valid).  He did not publish his disagreement with it until 1863. 

It is difficult for me to understand why Adventists don't like this message.  It is nothing different than what we have taught in the past.  If anything, it gives more evidence to 1844 and the establishment of SDAs as God's denominated people.  I feel that people don't understand it because it does take time to understand.  And yes, while I do agree the truth is straight, plain, clear, etc, I also understand the concept that truth doesn't just fall into your lap without any effort on your own.  We are to search for truth as lost jewels, amen?  So because there is something that you don't understand, don't immediately cast it off as foolish simply because you have never heard it.  Such implications would mean we know everything there is to know about truth.  I understand the idea of not permitting false doctrine into the church, but don't you agree that if there was something William Miller, Hiram Edson, Apollo Hale, and other pioneers wrote, studied, believed, and taught, that perhaps we could benefit from it as well?

Jackson, you raise three main points in your three paragraphs which I believe can be summarised and addressed as follows:

  1. Why ignore “the 2520 prophecy”? The answer, simply put, is because it is not a time-prophecy.
  2. Please note that Early Writings was not published until some 30 years later. Only A Sketch of the Christian Experience and Views of Ellen G. White and A Word to the Little Flock were published at that time. The “2520 prophecy” was a main support of Miller’s calculations that brought him to the return of Christ in 1843 at the end of the 2,300 days. Not all agreed with the exact interpretation. Apollos Hale argued that the “first meaning” that should be ascribed to the term should be that of a prophetic period, a single prophetic period of 2,520 years. Hiram Edson, on the other hand, argued that there were actually four prophetic periods described and they should be treated as such. After Edson presented a series of articles on the subject in 1850 the church deliberated and James White was asked to write a refutation of the theory on behalf of the Church. Uriah Smith also dismissed the theory in his book on Daniel & Revelation. The reason for the refutation was that they discovered that the word translated as times in Lev.26 was not the same word translated as times in Daniel, that it was an adverb that referred to intensity of punishment not length. At no time did Ellen White disagree with this understanding and at no time did she endorse the Millerite teaching in her writing. In fact, when she gave a biography of the Millerite movement in The Great Controversy she did not mention “the 2520” once.
  3. To paraphrase your last point, personally I find it hard to understand why there is this sudden insistence to hold on to something that we, as a denomination, have moved on from. The Millerites were all faithful Sunday-keepers and rejected the seventh-day Sabbath. Should we then return to Sunday-keeping? At its highest the concept of a 2,520-year prophecy in Lev.26 was simply a prop to uphold the 2,300-year prophecy. It was never proposed, as is taught by Pippenger and his followers, to be an “essential truth”. We don’t need it to explain the 2,300-year prophecy and, as a “prophecy” (if so it be) that has already been fulfilled it is as valuable as the prophecies of Nineveh and Tyre, nothing more.

The problem is that Pippenger and his followers attempt to introduce this issue as a shibboleth for SDAism today. Just the Holy Names and Feast Days have also been plied as essential truths by those on the fringes of SDAism so those disaffected members who want to claim to be still in the church but cannot stand to be in the “Conference” jump on this to show their “holiness” and that they are now the elite saved. All it actually does is inspire fanaticism and withdrawal from the body of SDA believers and, as has been noted in this thread, stops the propagation of the Gospel by those who subscribe to Pippenger’s teaching. Any teaching that causes its followers to deny Christ’s commission to His people cannot be of God. “By their fruits you shall know them.”

It also concerns me that there is an attempt to introduce a creed which was never held at that time and that we are being asked to put Pippenger's opinion above the Bible, Spirit of Prophecy and the teachings of the SDA Church. I see no logical reasoning that has proved Pippenger's view to be superior to Spirit of Prophecy or the SDA Pioneers - let alone why his followers give him free reign to alter the language of the Bible. William Miller, great man though he was, used by God as he was, he was neither infallible nor the touchstone for our beliefs.

However, if one wants to believe this so-called prophecy that is up to the person concerned. When I see people insisting that if I don't believe what they believe then I am a heretic, lost to hell, son of satan, etc., etc. all I see is the very Papal attitude - and a lot of insecurity.

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