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Are Adventists in danger of being deceived in exactly the same way as the Jews were deceived when Jesus came the first time?  They didn't recognise Him as Son of the living God.  They were masters at keeping the law, but did they really know who they worshipped?

Adventists are very good at Sabbath keeping, but the Sabbath is a sign, it's not the destination.   Do we really know who we worship?  Might we be in serious danger of receiving the mark of the beast while we concentrate on when we worship and not who?

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I am a witness that I have never seen Leon promote Catholic ideas or doctrines that contradict the scriptures. Period. False accusations and evil speaking of people not based on fact or scripture, but attacking their character is evil.

We all get a little heated here, and say things we shouldn't, but some here make a habit out of it. You Elijah are constantly calling Leon a Catholic, a Jesuit etc. That is offensive. Disagree with what he is saying, but don't attack the person.


I am not calling those who disagree with me liars; just you for promulgating false information about me.

On a side note

What is up with this; have you seen one of these?

is that a real spider? 


James Was You were replying to me? I can agree that the builders of the tower of Babel was indeed rebelling against God. 

Screaming again - capital letters.  It is quit obvious that the Babel people as you put it were not believers.  God does not judge non believers?  How nice for them.  Their example was not put in the Bible for our understanding?  Think Mr. French instead of screaming. 

Perfectly said Leon. I have no doubt about your heart and salvation, for you do have the love of God and understanding of grace in your heart.

Bart you are SO JUDGMENTAL, QUICK TO SAY WHO IS FALLEN AWAY. There are only 3 ways another believer can know if someone is born again and has salvation;

1. discerning of spirits, which is revelation from God about what is going on spiritually, whether there is any spirit present either in a person or in the environment. If there is a spirit whether it is of God being holy spirit or of the devil, or a fallen angel, or other necessary information such as whether to cast it or them (spirits) out.

2. By being around a person for a period of time to see how they live, whether they are renewing their minds and living love and following God and the holy spirit?

3. With freedom of will does the person speak in tongues or operate the other manifestations of holy spirit?

If you have one of these, it is an indication, revelation being dependable if it is really from God. but if you have all three of the above, you can pretty well believe the person is born again. Ultimately it is God's call and judgment. A person can operate the manifestations out of order or not in love to some extent, such as in the church at Corinth. But God puts safeguards in that he will not energize something too extreme or allow it, such as a person who wanted to use the working of miracles to destroy people by his own judgment. Now, did you use any of these criteria in judging either Leon or me?

Do you have the authority to do so? The knowledge, the spiritual guidance from the holy spirit?

The trinity is an error about who we worship.  We are to worship ONE GOD THE FATHER and not ONE GOD FATHER SON and HOLY SPIRIT.  The trinity is the omega.  The alpha was about God and so is the omega.

Notice the words MOST STARTLING....

"Be not deceived; many will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. We have now before us the alpha of this danger. The omega will be of a most startling nature." (1SM 197.4)

  "Adventist beliefs have changed over the years. Most startling is the teaching regarding Jesus Christ. Many of the pioneers, including James White, J.N. Andrews, Uriah Smith and J.H. Waggoner, held to an Arian or semi-Arian view. That is, that the Son at some point in time, before the creation of our world, was generated by the Father. The Trinitarian understanding of God, now part of our fundamental beliefs, was not generally held by the early Adventists. Even today, a few do not subscribe to it." (William G. Johnsson, Adventist Review, Jan. 6, 1994 p.10)) 

You are correct about the Pioneers but God sent Ellen WHITE to correct their errors. She was foremost in helping change their erroneous beliefs on this vital point 

Excellent Prophecy 101! More and more people are starting to come out and speak about various issues. Some here are afraid of that and speak evil of those that offer alternative viewpoints, such as how they treat me, calling me a liar when I entered this site which has ambiguous contradictory statements in the rules when you join.

Many here take what EGW or SDA teach as gospel, not researching or learning for themselves, not seeing alternative viewpoints elsewhere. The clannish and exclusionary attitude, that other non SDA Christians are all evil, not saved, calling them derogatory names. Let me remind you all that there is spiritually only one body of Christ, and Jesus Christ is head of that body, which is composed of all believers, and there are others besides SDA in that body. We are supposed to love the Brethren, that does not mean just fellow SDA members. It means all believers, and we are even supposed to show the love of God to unbelievers.

I think we all, including myself need to take a check up from the neck up and read I Corinthians chapter 13 which some call the love chapter. The manifestations of holy spirit I believe in and practice, but they should be operated in love, to profit withal, as chapter 13 reflects those principles. Knowledge and faith are important also, but knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. Knowledge like everything else is supposed to be used with love and wisdom. Pride cometh before a fall. Pride puffeth up. We all die unless we are alive at the time of the Messiah's return. We know in part and  we prophesy (very few unfortunately) in part. None of us know it all, and many things we may think are true, or false, may be the opposite. I myself have changed belief on many topics and things in the Bible. Change towards truth and love is very good, not to be afraid of.

One text for you James: 

Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

The Trinity is very much in the Truth and Yes we are in Danger of being deceived that is why Christ Himself tells us in Matthew Chapter 24 "Take heed that no man deceives you." NKJV.  And I've been missing Rob in blue and I convinced 1 JW to believe in the Trinity he understood it from my illustration of my marriage with Jessica Whitaker.  I'm not Jessica yet we are One Yet I'm different from Jessica yet we are One Yet we are both the same in that we are both human and have some of the same likes we both like cold things.


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