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Rob

 

Since the discussion on the other thread had gotten so far off of that thread, I am moving the comments over to this thread.  I'll copy and past the last two rounds of our discussion and we can move on from there.  OK?

 

Ray

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Reasoning, are you saying that the feast days are moral ?

Peace

 Jason wrote: "Reasoning, are you saying that the feast days are moral ?"

 

 Let me ask you, are Holy Convocations moral? I say yes, what say you? 

 Feast day is translated from the word Moed, which means a set time of GOD, a Holy Convocation. The 7th day Sabbath and the annual set Holy days are feast days or Moed. That's why it's in the same context in Lev.23.

Lev. 23 : 1And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.

Bless! 

 

Reasoning,

I see another problem that may affect the discussion. You said, "I don't believe observing any of the Moral laws of GOD saves a person, so no, it's not salvational.. and the Moral Laws of GOD are commands not suggestions."

That being so, the question was in regard to the feast days, not the Law of God. You have associated the two together but on what basis?

The Moral Law is the 10 Commandments and the feast days are not contained within the 10 Commandments. Whilst Lev. 23 mentions the seventh-day Sabbath it is because it begins the list of days that God has set aside. First, and most important, is the weekly Sabbath. Then God introduces other days that serve to point to the coming Messiah, shadows and types. That these days are not equal to the weekly Sabbath is evidenced by the fact that only the weekly Sabbath had a Preparation Day.

So the feast days are not moral but pointing to and explaining the plan of salvation.

In regard to the Passover one has to be careful what lesson is being learnt. The Passover came from before Sinai and was altered by Christ to what we call the Last Supper. We continue it today but not as an annual feast day but as a regular ordinance in church.

As to Apostles pausing to keep the Passover, again I am cautious to ascribe motivation. Was it to be "a Jew to the Jews", to enable them to have access to large crowds of Jews to speak about the Messiah? Was it because that was the one feast that continued in a different form to the others?

This is why I want to see other feasts being kept by the early Christians. The continuance of the Temple service had been blighted by the ripping of the dividing curtain - and also by the fact that the regular responses from the Lord ceased. By 70ad it was all over, the temple gone, no more sacrifices no more Day of Atonement in type. Paul says that a better ministry with a better Priest has begun so don't try and cling to the old one.

So... Passover, yes, there is some evidence but not enough to convince me as Christ had already dealt with it and replaced it.

But it is the other feast days that there is silence over and I would contend that this silence shows that they had been abandoned as shadows which were abolished.

Blessings.

Peace


JohnB wrote: "That being so, the question was in regard to the feast days, not the Law of God. You have associated the two together but on what basis?"

 On the basis that the set Holy Convocations are Moral, whether weekly or annually. 


JohnB wrote: "The Moral Law is the 10 Commandments and the feast days are not contained within the 10 Commandments. "


Right, unfortunately you believe the moral law of the annual set Holy Convocations aren't moral because they aren't part of the Ten Commandments, But we know there are laws contained in the book Moses wrote in that are moral, I'm trying to show that the annual set Holy Convocations are moral.

JohnB wrote: "Whilst Lev. 23 mentions the seventh-day Sabbath it is because it begins the list of days that God has set aside. First, and most important, is the weekly Sabbath."


We agree.. Now, can we agree that the context of Lev.23 is the feast of GOD, Moed of GOD, HIS Holy Convocations? And that the 7th Day Sabbath is a feast day/Moed, the first and most important Holy Convocation?

The moral link brother JohnB is Holy Convocation, the annual Holy Convocations aren't ceremonial, a Holy day can't be a ceremony, there were ceremonies done on Holy days (Num.28), but a Holy day itself is not a ceremony.


JohnB wrote: "Then God introduces other days that serve to point to the coming Messiah, shadows and types."


I agree everything points to and centers around Jesus and the Cross, but as the evidence shows, that didn't mean the annual set Holy Convocations of GOD were done away with. The evidence shows otherwise, the early Church observed them, The day of Atonement in 1844 was a annual Holy of GOD, this is after the cross, it shows GOD still using HIS Holy days in regards to our salvation...

EGW wrote: "In like manner the types which relate to the second advent must be fulfilled at the time pointed out in the symbolic service." GC P. 399


What time pointed out is she talking? The annual set Holy days of GOD, they related to the second coming as well, not just His first coming.

Zechariah 14 talks about keeping the Feast of Tabernacles during final ingathering, the Bible talks about from one new moon to another all will assemble and worship GOD. That is what we do on Holy Convocations, we assemble, come together and worship.

Isa. 66: 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

In the new Heavens and earth, it say we will assemble and worship GOD from one new moon and Sabbath to another.


JohnB wrote: "In regard to the Passover one has to be careful what lesson is being learnt. The Passover came from before Sinai and was altered by Christ to what we call the Last Supper. We continue it today but not as an annual feast day but as a regular ordinance in church."


Yes, we agree, the Passover lamb and Supper was altered by Christ, He is our Lamb slain, He instituted the NT ceremonies of Lords Supper, but again, as evidenced shows, the Passover set Holy days, the Holy Convocations of GOD were not done away with or replace.


JohnB wrote: "As to Apostles pausing to keep the Passover, again I am cautious to ascribe motivation. Was it to be "a Jew to the Jews", to enable them to have access to large crowds of Jews to speak about the Messiah? Was it because that was the one feast that continued in a different form to the others?"


Yes, I heard this one before, but this example in Philippi is not the same as when Paul had Timothy circumcised, and the time of his last mission when he observed ceremonial rituals, which actually ended his ministry. The time in Philippi is with mostly gentiles, their was no synagogue, no pressure from ceremonial loving Jews.

I found some statements from Joe Crews from amazing facts and Steve Wohlberg,

Joe Crews wrote: "In Acts 16:13 we have positive proof that Paul kept the Sabbath even when there was no synagogue and no Jews. He was ministering in Greece, where there were only a few scattered Jews and no synagogue at all. What did he do on the Sabbath? “And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spoke unto the women which resorted thither.”
"Even with no church to attend, the apostle sought out a spot where religious worship was carried on—a place of prayer by the river—and preached to those who went there. Surely, no one can fail to discern Paul’s deep commitment to the Sabbath as we follow him in this unusual outdoor mission. " Is Sunday really sacred? (Amazing facts)

Steve Wohlberg wrote: "A Sabbath-keeping church begins in Philippi: Luke and Paul delivered “the decrees” of the Jerusalem Council and entered Greece to “preach the gospel.” Acts 16:4, 9, 10. In Philippi, Luke wrote that “on the Sabbath we went out of the city by a river side.” Acts 16:13. There was no synagogue there, but it was still the Sabbath. A Gentile named Lydia, “whose heart the Lord opened … was baptized, and her household” (16:14, 15). This was the beginning of the New Testament Sabbath-keeping church of Jesus Christ in Philippi. “The Epistle of Paul to the Philippians” was written to this church." White horse media com

EGW: "At Philippi Paul tarried to keep the passover. Only Luke remained with him, the other members of the company passing on to Troas to await him there. The Philippians were the most loving and true-hearted of the apostle's converts, and he enjoyed a peaceful and happy visit with them during the eight days of the feast.”


With the evidence presented, of Luke, Paul and his converts observing the Passover days, all eight days... No synagogue (not in Jerusalem), not that many Jews, mostly Gentiles... Also there is no account of pressure from other Jews demanding them to observe the annual Holy days of GOD, they didn't have to observe them if they were actually done away with and meant a denial of Christ ... Of their own free will they choose to observe the Moed of GOD. You agree with the evidence..


JohnB wrote: So... Passover, yes, there is some evidence but not enough to convince me as Christ had already dealt with it and replaced it."


He replaced the ceremonial rituals, not the set Holy days. I understand you would like to see more evidence of the other annual Holy days of GOD being observed, but I ask you questions in regards to the evidence I already presented, and you didn't answer. I'm going to try again.

Can we agree, after the Cross, that the annual set Holy Convocations of GOD can be observed without animal sacrifices and ceremonial temple rituals in Jerusalem?

Or do you believe Luke, Paul and his converts are sacrificing animals and performing OT ceremonies during the time of them observing the Passover set Holy days in Philippi?

You wrote and many in the SDA Church teaches in order to properly observe the annual set Holy Convocations of GOD, a person would have to perform the ceremonial rituals that was done in the OT, they are inseparable. Again, unless you believe they were sacrificing animals in Philippi, then that teaching is wrong. 


Blessings!

Reasoning no matter what we say you won't change your unique beliefs. The SDA Church guided by the Holy Spirit has rejected this false doctrine, Ellen White never accepted it, the SOP does not support it. It's plain and simple...

Peace

Jason wrote: "Reasoning no matter what we say you won't change your unique beliefs. The SDA Church guided by the Holy Spirit has rejected this false doctrine, Ellen White never accepted it, the SOP does not support it. It's plain and simple..."

 No... My brother, that is not true, no where in the Bible or the writings of EGW does it say the annual set Holy days are done away with... Some quote certain statements and try to make it say something it's not. Again, there's no rejection from the SOP of the annual set Holy Convocations of GOD. 

 

 I'm not saying she actively promoted observing the annual Holy days of GOD either, I'm just saying there is no where of her saying the annual Holy days of GOD are done away with Jason. I read the greater light and the lesser light, anybody's theological views after that would have to be highly questioned.

 I know, there are many in the SDA Church teaching the annual set Holy days of GOD are done away with at the Cross, rejecting something that evidence shows is not true. 

 It's old truth, but new truth in light of the evidence and compared to what is taught (not by the Bible or EGW's writings) in the SDA Church. Holy Convocations are moral, whether weekly or yearly.

 A Holy day is not a ceremony,  there was ceremonies done on Holy days of GOD, but the day itself is not ceremonial.   Unfortunately trying to combine the two (moral & ceremonial) after the Cross in regards to the annual Holy days of GOD has cause some teachings to arise within the SDA that are not true. 

 Trust me brother Jason, where ever Truth leads, I will go, even if it means changing my "unique beliefs". I have no problem with that, trust me, but no one can tell something that is not true, especially in light of evidence proving otherwise. 

Blessings! 

Hi Reasoning, very busy atm, hence the delayed - and abrupt response.

I still see no reason why the Feast Days should be treated as permanent institutions like the seventh-day Sabbath. Your reply as to why you treat it as part of the moral law appears to rest, basically, on because you say so. I'm not following how you can separate the day from the ceremonies that the day was created for.

The simple fact is that the days were appointed by God so that associated sacrifices could be made in the place where God appointed them to take place (see Exod. 34:24; Deut. 16:2, etc.). They were made rest days so that all may attend and learn the lessons contained within the ceremonies and rites that were enacted on each day.

If there are no sacrifices being made in the Temple then how can one keep anything more than a mere shell. The entire point of the day is lost, as is the lesson to be learned. The days have faded and now, in the main, refer back to events that have already passed.

As for Paul, we have one statement from EGW that says he stopped at Philippi to keep the Passover but note that she echoes the Bible in saying that not all of the party stopped. Others went on to Troas. To keep the Passover you had to attend the Temple and you couldn't be travelling during that time. This becomes a very muddy proof. Paul could have gone to Jerusalem but didn't. His fellow travellers could have paused with him to keep the Passover - but they didn't. We know that there was a dispute in the early Church between the Jewish Christians and the Gentile Christians about the ceremonial law and we know that this was resolved at the Jerusalem Council that the ceremonial law no longer applied. Paul wrote strongly about this, from Philippi, was he observing the ceremonial in part whilst claiming that it had been done away with in total? Christ had introduced the Lord's Supper which involved no sacrificial service other than that of the heart.

Where do we see other feast days being kept post-crucifixion?

The Day of Atonement in 1844 was the anti-type of the typical Day of Atonement. This brings in another problem: if we are in the anti-typical Day of Atonement how can we attempt to keep any of the other feasts? We should be in a Day of Atonement frame of mind, which means being of a contrite heart, renouncing worldly display, searching for unconfessed sin.

Anyway, I still find this changing of the purpose of the feast days to be akin to changing the weekly day of worship. There is no authority to "keep" the empty shell devoid of the purpose.

"In the past, Christ had been approached through forms and ceremonies, but now He was upon the earth, calling attention directly to Himself, presenting a spiritual priesthood, and placing the sinful human agent at the footstool of mercy. “Ask, and it shall be given you,” He promised; “seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.” [Matthew 7:7.] “If ye ask anything in my name, I will do it. If ye love me, keep my commandments.” “He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me ... and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.” [John 14:14, 15, 21.] “As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.” [John 15:9, 10.]
These lessons Christ gave in His teaching, showing that the ritual service was passing away, and possessed no virtue. “The hour cometh,” He said, “and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in Spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit; and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.” [John 4:23, 24.] True circumcision is the worship of Christ in spirit and truth, not in forms and ceremonies, with hypocritical pretense." (Ellen White - Ms 9, 1896)

In regard to EGW's comment (GC p.399) and the time pointed out in the ceremonial service the context makes it clear that she is referring to the fact that the anti-type fulfils to the exact month and day. For example God appointed Passover to be "a" sabbath, prefiguring the fact that in the year of the crucifixion the Passover actually fell on the seventh-day Sabbath.

However this cannot be taken to mean that the Church should keep the ceremonial feast days.

In regard to your closing questions, my intention was not to avoid answering them. I object to these type of questions. You offer two alternatives but on what basis have you determined that there are only two possible answers?

So, point one, yes I believe that the Jews could and did observe the days in ways other than that which God ordained. That is the nature of man to take it upon himself to change what God says when it doesn't suit him. Should they have done that? No, it goes directly against God's instructions as to the purpose of the days.

As to the second question, the answer is no as you have predicated the question on an assumption that I have not made. You state that Paul and Luke were "observing" Passover. Presumably they were observing the Lord's Supper in the manner that Jesus had shown them in memory of His sacrifice. The fact that other members of the party did not stop with them is a second witness to the fact that they were not observing the old feasts which had been nailed to the cross.

This is why the Passover is not a good choice of evidence. In Philippi you have people stopping for the new ordinance not the old.

Blessings.

Satan hopes to involve the remnant people of God in the general ruin that is coming upon the earth. As the coming of Christ draws nigh, he will be more determined and decisive in his efforts to overthrow them. Men and women will arise professing to have some new light or some new revelation whose tendency is to unsettle faith in the old landmarks. Their doctrines will not bear the test of God’s word, yet souls will be deceived. False reports will be circulated, and some will be taken in this snare. They will believe these rumors and in their turn will repeat them, and thus a link will be formed connecting them with the archdeceiver. This spirit will not always be manifested in an open defiance of the messages that God sends, but a settled unbelief is expressed in many ways. Every false statement that is made feeds and strengthens this unbelief, and through this means many souls will be balanced in the wrong direction. {5T 295.3}
We cannot be too watchful against every form of error, for Satan is constantly seeking to draw men from the truth. He fills them with notions of their own sufficiency, and persuades them, as he has Brother D, that originality is a gift much to be coveted. Brother D needs to learn the truth more perfectly. Satan has taken advantage of his ignorance in this direction, and here comes the danger. One man has been drawn aside who is hard to be persuaded when once he has set his feet in a wrong track, and many who thought they were only following the man as he followed Christ are betrayed into following him when he has turned his back upon his Saviour. {5T 296.1}
Pride dwells in the heart of Brother D, and it will be exceedingly difficult for him to yield; but unless he makes a full surrender to Christ, the enemy will continue to work through him. And if he does not at once take a decided stand, I fear he never will. {5T 296.2}

Peace

Thank you brother JohnB, no worries, take your time... It's  been really hectic on my end, sorry for the late reply... but also, I like to fully understand what your saying and make sure I understand you correctly. 


JohnB wrote: "I still see no reason why the Feast Days should be treated as permanent institutions like the seventh-day Sabbath. Your reply as to why you treat it as part of the moral law appears to rest, basically, on because you say so. I'm not following how you can separate the day from the ceremonies that the day was created for."


That is not true brother JohnB, it's not because I say so, it's because the evidence and actions of the early Christian Church still observing them shows that the annual Holy set Convocations of GOD aren't done away with.


JohnB wrote: "The simple fact is that the days were appointed by God so that associated sacrifices could be made in the place where God appointed them to take place (see Exod. 34:24; Deut. 16:2, etc.). They were made rest days so that all may attend and learn the lessons contained within the ceremonies and rites that were enacted on each day."


Again, we agree sacrifices were done on the Holy days of GOD, but a Holy day is not a ceremony or ceremonial, nothing in the Bible or the writings of EGW uses the term "ceremonial feast days". It's made up to interlock them together after the Cross, so when someone says the annual Holy Days of GOD weren't done away with, then it can said of course they were, they are ceremonial, to observe them is to deny what Christ did for us on the Cross.

JohnB wrote: "If there are no sacrifices being made in the Temple then how can one keep anything more than a mere shell. The entire point of the day is lost, as is the lesson to be learned. The days have faded and now, in the main, refer back to events that have already passed."

I don't believe Luke, Paul and his converts was keeping a mere shell, I believe they were enjoying the whole eight days of the annual Holy set days of GOD in the fullness of Jesus as our ultimate sacrifice once and for all. They didn't need Temple rituals to observe the annual set Holy days of GOD, Jesus is in the Heavenly Temple performing His duties.


JohnB wrote: "As for Paul, we have one statement from EGW that says he stopped at Philippi to keep the Passover but note that she echoes the Bible in saying that not all of the party stopped. Others went on to Troas. To keep the Passover you had to attend the Temple and you couldn't be travelling during that time. This becomes a very muddy proof. Paul could have gone to Jerusalem but didn't. His fellow travellers could have paused with him to keep the Passover - but they didn't."


As you can see by Luke, Paul and his converts example in Philippi, after the Cross, you didn't need to be attend the Temple to observe the annual Holy days of GOD. I agree, Paul had a passion to teach the Gospel of Jesus to his people, and efforts to get to Jerusalem was based on that, however as evidence shows, he didn't make it, so he with his converts and Luke still observed the annual set Holy days of GOD.

In regards to the others traveling with Luke & Paul, and them traveling on... It really doesn't hold any weight...  does it say anywhere in inspiration why they kept going on? Does it say what they did during those Holy set days? I don't think so, but if you know of something please present it, if not, then I don't see how this rational trumps the clear evidence from the "one statement " of Luke, Paul, and his converts observing the annual Holy days of GOD in Philippi some twenty years after the Cross.


JohnB wrote: ". We know that there was a dispute in the early Church between the Jewish Christians and the Gentile Christians about the ceremonial law and we know that this was resolved at the Jerusalem Council that the ceremonial law no longer applied. Paul wrote strongly about this, from Philippi, was he observing the ceremonial in part whilst claiming that it had been done away with in total? Christ had introduced the Lord's Supper which involved no sacrificial service other than that of the heart."

My brother, that is my point exactly, Paul and Luke can't be teaching the ceremonial law is done away with and teach to keep them is a denial of what did for us at the Cross, and at the same time keep the annual set Holy days with Paul's converts, that is, if they were ceremonial as you claim. However a Holy day is not ceremonial, and Luke, Paul and his converts almost certainly observed the NT ceremonies that Christ introduced during the Lord's Supper, during the annual set Holy days of GOD.


JohnB wrote: "Where do we see other feast days being kept post-crucifixion?
The Day of Atonement in 1844 was the anti-type of the typical Day of Atonement. This brings in another problem: if we are in the anti-typical Day of Atonement how can we attempt to keep any of the other feasts? We should be in a Day of Atonement frame of mind, which means being of a contrite heart, renouncing worldly display, searching for unconfessed sin."


Oct.22,1844 was the Day of Atonement, a annual Holy day of GOD, way after the Cross, it shows GOD still using HIS Holy days to perform Great works in regards to our salvation. Do you believe GOD stopped there in regards to doing great works on HIS set Holy Days? 

In the new Heavens and earth we will assemble and worship GOD, because they are Holy Convocations. 

Isa. 66: 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

 Blessings... Continue.....

Peace

JohnB wrote:"Anyway, I still find this changing of the purpose of the feast days to be akin to changing the weekly day of worship. There is no authority to "keep" the empty shell devoid of the purpose."


Actually, there is no authority not to keep the annual set Holy days of GOD, I read all about the ceremonial Temple rituals being done away with, but nothing saying the Holy annual feast of GOD were done away with. The onus for proving they were done away with is on you.

 The quotes you posted from EGW doesn't say the annual set days of GOD were done away with.

 The authority to "keep" the annual Holy days of GOD is first and foremost Jesus, His example & life shows Him observing them... then next the apostles, they observed them.


Passover]-- " In the days of Christ the people had grown cold and formal in their service to God. They thought more of their own pleasure than of His goodness to them.   But it was not so with Jesus. He loved to think about God. As He came to the temple, He watched the priests in their work. He bowed with the worshipers as they knelt to pray, and His voice joined in the songs of praise." {SJ 31.8}
 
      "The Passover scene was dwelt upon with peculiar interest, for in their blindness their minds had become confused and their doctrines so perverted by traditions that they had nearly lost sight of the true object of the Passover, which they had just been celebrating with great display. Christ knew that they were wholly unprepared to receive him, and he was carefully preparing their minds for his mission and his work when his public ministry should commence. As he had celebrated the Passover with solemn interest, his divine nature was stirred as never before, as he witnessed the altar of sacrifice, the bleeding lamb, the rising incense, the ministering priests, himself the foundation of the entire system of these ceremonies. "{YI, July 1, 1873 par. 7}

   "Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the Lord seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath. And ye shall take you on the first day the boughs of goodly trees, branches of palm-trees, and the boughs of thick trees, and willows of the brook; and ye shall rejoice before the Lord your God seven days. And ye shall keep it a feast unto the Lord seven days in the year. It shall be a statute forever in your generations: ye shall celebrate it in the seventh month. Ye shall dwell in booths seven days; all that are Israelites born shall dwell in booths: that your generations may know that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths, when I brought them out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God." It was to the celebration of this feast that Jesus came. RH July 7,1896


I always hear, if Jesus did it, then it's good for us do.  When we teach on the Sabbath that's one of the reasonings SDA use that we should observe the Sabbath, does the reasoning change because we apply it to the annual Holy days of GOD? I don't see how it does. Jesus observed the annual Holy set days but He didn't observe the ceremonial temple worship. His life shows you can observe the annual Holy days without observing the ceremonial duties. He just observed the moral law brother JohnB.


JohnB wrote: "In regard to EGW's comment (GC p.399) and the time pointed out in the ceremonial service the context makes it clear that she is referring to the fact that the anti-type fulfils to the exact month and day. For example God appointed Passover to be "a" sabbath, prefiguring the fact that in the year of the crucifixion the Passover actually fell on the seventh-day Sabbath."


It's for another discussion, but the 14th day of the month didn't fall on a Friday the year of Jesus crucifixion, it was Wednesday, don't get me wrong, the crucifixion was on Friday, but not the 14th day of the month. But we agree, EGW comment in GC p.399 shows after the Cross, GOD still using HIS set "times", HIS annual Holy days to perform great works in regards to our salvation. Feast of Tabernacles points to fulfillments that relates to our salvation. 

JohnB wrote: "However this cannot be taken to mean that the Church should keep the ceremonial feast days."

That term is used nowhere in the Bible or the writings of EGW, nowhere do you find the term "ceremonial feast days"... Where do you get it from? I know there was OT ceremonies done on the annual Holy set Convocations of GOD, but nowhere does it say the annual Holy days of GOD are ceremonial.

JohnB wrote: "In regard to your closing questions, my intention was not to avoid answering them. I object to these type of questions. You offer two alternatives but on what basis have you determined that there are only two possible answers?
So, point one, yes I believe that the Jews could and did observe the days in ways other than that which God ordained. That is the nature of man to take it upon himself to change what God says when it doesn't suit him. Should they have done that? No, it goes directly against God's instructions as to the purpose of the days."

Hold on, I didn't just say "the Jews", I asked Specifically about Luke, Paul and his converts, Our examples, from the evidence of them observing all eight days of the feast, can we agree, after the Cross, the annual Holy set days of GOD can be observed without animal sacrifices and being in the temple in Jerusalem?


JohnB wrote: "As to the second question, the answer is no as you have predicated the question on an assumption that I have not made. You state that Paul and Luke were "observing" Passover. Presumably they were observing the Lord's Supper in the manner that Jesus had shown them in memory of His sacrifice."



It's a fact they tarried to "keep" the Passover, so I didn't state they observed the Passover, SOP stated it.... I asked the question because you say to observe the annual Holy days of GOD a person would have to sacrifice animals and must be in Jerusalem. Can we agree by the example of Luke, Paul and his converts that is not true? I never read anywhere of Luke and Paul sacrificing animals after the Cross.

Jesus gave the Lord's Supper ordinance to the apostles, Luke was there, to presume they observed the Lord's Supper is a very strong possibility and presumption. But I agree, it didn't say exactly, but it did say they did "keep " the Passover days with Paul's converts.


EGW: "At Philippi Paul tarried to keep the passover. Only Luke remained with him, the other members of the company passing on to Troas to await him there. The Philippians were the most loving and true-hearted of the apostle's converts, and he enjoyed a peaceful and happy visit with them during the eight days of the feast.”


Do you believe GOD didn't approve or ordained Luke, Paul and his converts observing the whole eight days of HIS feast, where they are having a peaceful and happy time?

I read of one time GOD didn't ordain something Paul did, and it ended his ministry. But I guess you have evidence of GOD not approving of Luke, Paul and his converts observing the annual set Holy days of GOD yeah?

Again, if they are enjoying a peaceful and happy time during the feast, then Paul is not experiencing the same same situation like the time of having Timothy circumcised, (which wasn't inherently wrong), or the time of his last mission of preaching the Gospel, when he did do ceremonies that GOD didn't ordain, I read of no pressure on them in Philippi to observe the annual Holy days of GOD. Of their own free will they observed the annual Holy days of GOD. You can't say GOD had a problem or didn't ordain something without any proof.

Blessings! 

Peace

At the 10:30 mark, he reads Lev.23, I agree with pastor Doug, the context is the feast of GOD, which means they are Holy Convocations, I agree GOD separates the weekly feast day from the annual feast days, but only because one is weekly and the others are yearly, that's why GOD said they shall be proclaimed in their "seasons ", which again means yearly. 

 Also, he mentioned the difference between the 7th day Sabbath and the annual Holy days of GOD, he said GOD wrote the 7th day Sabbath on stone and Moses wrote the annual Holy days on paper. He said the Ten Commandments was in inside the Ark and the book Moses wrote in with the annual Holy days was put on the side of the Ark. But that doesn't change the fact that the 7th day Sabbath and annual set Holy days are Holy Convocations of GOD. 

 Unfortunately, he calls them ceremonial sabbaths, nowhere in the Bible or the writings of EGW calls the feast days ceremonial sabbaths. Its a term used to falsely categorize the annual Holy days as ceremonial. But a Holy day or Holy Convocation is not a ceremony, there were ceremonies done the Holy set days, but the days themselves weren't ceremonial. 

 I post some disagreements I have with pastor Doug in regards to this subject. 

 Bless! 

Either of you can keep whatever feast days or Sabbath(s), holy convocation days, but don't judge others in what they believe as far as esteeming or not esteeming a day, as Paul said. Likewise; eating and drinking, as long as it is in accordance with the Council in Jerusalem in Chapter 15 of Acts.

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